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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Ces 2012 onsite reports


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#1 ONLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:35 PM

International CES 2012 ONSITE Roundup – Wednesday January 11, 2012
While the International Consumer Electronics Show 2012 (best known as CES) formally started already… several of us flew in early this morning for our own “first day”. We decided to see the final 3 days of the show and skip the first 2 days, which are primarily media (restricted) and speaker (additional fee) sessions. Even after attending the past 4 years…to several of us….the scope and scale of this event appears staggering in 2012….including the traditional heavily-burdened Las Vegas traffic. Walking is often faster than vehicle transportation – thanks to RichieRich furnishing the “home base” for our stay – the walk from the hotel to CES is a short one. Photos will be included here in this thread each day.

OBVIOUSLY FROM THE FIRST PHOTO, they must have known a number of DBSTalk members were going to be there. :D

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#2 ONLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:36 PM

First Impressions of International CES 2012:

1) This is without question…the “Disneyworld for Gadgets”.
2) Mobile, mobile, and more mobile. Anyone having doubt as to the future of mobile technology would have that perspective eliminated at CES. Compared to last year’s event…there are even more new tablets, smart phones, web-integrated cameras and major appliances, as well as integrated automotive gadgets throughout the CES halls, and offered by a many brand-name manufacturers. Almost ½ of all press releases in 2012 pertained to mobile products, mobile services, and new device introductions.
3) Sorry skeptics – the HDTV industry has not given up on 3D HDTV – reports of its death are premature (3D is not dead from the HDTV manufacturer’s viewpoint). This was obvious at CES2012. whereby plenty of major vendors not only promoted 3D HDTV, but also next generation 3D HDTV – less cost, glasses-free, and HDTVs that show both 2D and 3D as concurrent choices for viewers. Pretty much all major manufacturers had 3D HDTV presentations, demos, and hardware prominently featured in their booths, including Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp, LG, Samsung, Sony, and others. In addition, ESPN 3D was featured at its own booth at CES 2012, featuring impressive sample 3D sports programming demos and a live feed from their 3D ESPN channel.
4) 4K - remember that terminology – you’re likely going to hear it alot in 2012 (and perhaps thereafter if manufacturers have their way). This latest HDTV evolutionary milestone reflects High Definition at roughly 4 times the resolution of today’s HDTVs. Needless to say, 4K features razor sharp video presentation. More info on this topic will be posted later.
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#3 ONLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:37 PM

More First Impressions

1) One “major news” item for CES 2012 was that Microsoft will no longer be participating as an exhibitor as of 2013. As one of the largest booths seen each year at CES – their decision to leave CES exhibiting will be noticeable going forward. The reason MS decided to make this change was tied to their development timing. Most new Windows releases have been in the fall, whereas CES in January each year. That makes for a challenge in terms of completed or even beta showings at CES. Still, there was a WIN8 (beta) demo at their 2012 booth. As many folks may know, Windows 8 is primarily targeted for the support of tablet/mobile touch screen devices, with a “configuration switch” option available for a desktop/laptop PC user interface. With WIN8 being several months from formal release, and now almost 2 years behind competitive offerings for iOS and Android tablets, a number of people openly questioned the potential success of WIN8 at this late date – even right inside the Microsoft booth itself.
2) Last year, this event drew over 149,000 attendees based on reports provided by CES. When the final 2012 numbers are counted…this year’s attendance is expected to set a record. The scale of this extravaganza requires all of the space contained in the entire North, Central, and South Las Vegas Convention Center halls…plus…more space in the Hilton and Venetian Convention Centers (neighboring facilities) as well – 1.851 million net square feet of floor space. Compared to other shows attended in previous years, 2012 foot traffic everywhere in the International CES Las Vegas Convention Center, the surrounding streets, restaurants, and the hotels…seemed to validate record attendance this year.
3) International CES 2012 was indeed more “international” than in past years – with a noticeable growth in the number of global nation booths and attendees.
4) There were reams of press conferences (as always), press releases (more than ever before), and with more than 20,000 new products slated to be announced this week – and 5,000 members of the international press onsite. This onslaught of marketing hype requires any attendee to plan ahead, chose their topics, and limits their time to focus upon a limited list of interests.
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#4 ONLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:39 PM

Entropic - (reported from the CES exhibit floor)

A) This year, Entropic was beginning to mention their MOCA 2.0 infrastructure at their booth. For DirecTV users – when you hear MOCA…think DECA/SWiM. The presentations in their booth this year included new MOCA 2.0 adapters and views of improved bandwidth (speed) for Home Networking and Channel Stacking (CSS) solutions. This evolutionary MOCA 2.0 “next generation” version will be capable of delivering 400Mbps up to 1 Gbps of MAC-layer throughput a coax home networking framework. In simple terms, MOCA 2.0 is DECA on steroids for speed / throughput. It is also optimized in like fashion for Internet/WIFI channel support in the same infrastructure. The booth demo featured a look at how a MOCA 2.0 network would work similar to the current DECA networking connectivity, simply using updated DECA-like adapters and or internal DECA technology within HD receivers and/or HD DVRs, as well as corresponding multi-switch hardware.

The booth staff confirmed that MOCA 2.0 as backward compatible with previous versions that are commonly installed in DirecTV home installations. While they were able to demonstrate MOCA 2.0 functionality in the Entropic booth, the adapters and corresponding hardware were for demo purposes, and did not reflect what final production components would look like. Availability will likely be later in 2012, and contingent upon DirecTV’s own rollout schedule, which was unknown at this time.

Another viewing was for RVU. Specifically, an HR34 HD DVR, along with Samsung RVU-enabled TV, and a corresponding new C70 RVU Remote were shown by a representative of Jethead (a tech partner) at the Entropic booth. The remote was particularly interesting based on an entirely different design specific to RVO operation. In addition, we were told that a new client device will be forthcoming…basically a replacement for the current C30 unit. The client devices are very small, and we were told that the next generation will be even smaller.

We will be returning tomorrow, and providing additional details as they are provided.

Attached Thumbnails

  • CES 13 Entropic 1.jpg
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#5 ONLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:41 PM

Special CES Guest – Earl Bonovich

A) There have been DBSTalk ties to CES one way or another for several years now – a number of DBSTalkers voluntarily attend this tradeshow (at their own expense) through affiliations within the Consumer Electronics industry. To the onsite team of DBSTalkers who selflessly come to CES and contribute to the sharing of information – THANK YOU!

In addition, while not having a formal booth at the event, DirecTV typically has staff representation on site at CES with key business partners. There was a special personal treat for two of us this year – (finally) getting to meet Earl Bonovich.

Earl is perhaps best known as the Founder of the DBSTalk / DirecTV Cutting Edge (CE) field testing program. For more than 5 years now, DirecTV and DBSTalk have successfully worked together to execute an informal/voluntary partnership to field test various technologies so that they can eventually become available to all DirecTV customers. Past examples passing through this process have included various new DirecTV HD receiver and DVR devices, SWiM, Whole Home DVR Service, NFL Sunday Ticket mobile, iPad app, nomad, and others. Put simply, without Earl’s pioneering efforts, there would not be a CE program at DBSTalk. As a past Moderator at DBSTalk, Earl himself has “moved forward” in recent years to actually now work for DirecTV itself, and has been extremely successful personally managing mobile technology innovations for them – to the point he and his team won an Emmy for their product innovations. If you use any of the mobile DirecTV technologies, the odds are Earl has a direct hand in getting those to market. Thanks to him for what he has done in the past at DBSTalk, is doing now for DirecTV customers, and gaining a slice of his time at CES.

Both HDTVFAN0001 and RichieRich joined Earl for a nice lunch meeting.

Attached Thumbnails

  • CES 4 Earl Bonovich 1.jpg
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#6 ONLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:43 PM

4K HDTV - (reported from the CES exhibit floor)

A) (Multiple vendors) – There is no doubt today’s HDTV (720p through 1080p resolution) has been a major success. Mass production and pricing reductions have been key drivers. Now…a 4K resolution will offer 8.8 million pixels on an HDTV screen in the new models appearing in 2012. If seeing a razor sharp image on very large screens doesn’t make you go WOW! – you probably will never care about 4K. I had to say WOW! more than once seeing 4K in multiple booths.

Sony, JVC, and a number of other vendors were heavily promoting this new HDTV resolution format. What became obvious rather quickly was that that kind of “super video” is targeted at mostly larger HDTV screens (including both home and commercial theater projectors). Still, all the vendors I spoke with felt this was a done deal in terms of success in the higher-end Home Theater/Media Room market. Another interesting factor in the upcoming “4K revolution” will be video scaling – or more accurately – the reduced need for video scaling. One other term I overheard for this was “QuadHD”, but I suspect 4K might be the name that sticks…and most vendors used that. What I could not find out from anyone so far: How will / could 4K & 3D “play together” in the future?

As far as content for 4K: Since the 4K presentation dimensions are essentially 4 times 1080p resolution – most existing HD content can be easily “up-scaled” to the new 4K standard. On a related note – the new high-capacity 50GB Blu Ray disks were said to be sufficient to support 4K content just fine. Several new 50GB Blu Ray players were seen at multiple brand-name vendor booths, with several slated for release this year.
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#7 ONLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:44 PM

Here are some pictures I took onsite. Thanks to Stuart for adding these updated items - the HR34 with the corresponding RVU-enabled Samsung TV and C70 remote (closeup is the last photo) were shown - we'll be going back for a scheduled meeting at Entropic later this morning.

http://www.dbstalk.c...22&d=1326378554

http://www.dbstalk.c...23&d=1326378554

http://www.dbstalk.c...24&d=1326378554

http://www.dbstalk.c...25&d=1326378554

http://www.dbstalk.c...26&d=1326378554

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  • CES-17-Entropic-5-SWiM-32_4X8.png
  • CES-18-RVU-DVR,-TV,-RC70-Remote.png
  • CES-19-RVU-RC70-Remote.png

Edited by hdtvfan0001, 12 January 2012 - 08:59 AM.

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#8 OFFLINE   smiddy

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 11:02 PM

Awesome man, thanks for the report!
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#9 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 11:14 PM

Well, it was Great meeting Earl Bonovich today after Posting with him in 3 different Forums over the past 10 years. He is definitely a Genius in developing the CE Program which is a WIN/WIN Situation for both DIRECTV & DBSTALK.COM.

After our Lunch with Earl, HDTVFAN0001 and I rushed over to CES to enjoy a few moments viewing the various Exhibits and we briefly got to Meet & Greet the Fantastic Guys at Morega, Inc. who are developing the Nomad Software for DIRECTV. We will be meeting with them for a more in depth interactive session on Friday to discuss some things that we believe can help them perfect and fine tune this wonderful software that allows us to Offload our Directv Content onto our Mobile Devices for purposes of Remotely Viewing in situations such as on an airplane where there is no WiFi.

We then met with Draconis which was a pure pleasure as he is a Great Guy and Very Knowledgeable and it was Great to share CES Experiences with him (he had more to share with us then we had to share with him as we were only there for about 3 hours).

Briefly stopped by the NVidea Booth to enjoy viewing the Asus Transformer Prime in mulitple viewable uses which Blew Me Away!!! The PQ Is Awesome.

Can't wait until mine arrives in late February.

Wishing You Could All Be Here!!! :)
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#10 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 11:15 PM

I made a quick stop at the Entropic booth to look at the RVU setup. The speed of the interface on the Samsung TV was about on par with the SD GUI in use, so I wonder how the HD GUI will fare.

The C70 remote was certainly pleasant to hold, and while not as weighty as the current RF crop, the ergonomics were great. I really liked the toggles for the channel and volume changers. It would be nice to see this in a "grown up" form for the full-featured boxes. I would hope such a remote will keep the rubberized backing.

I believe the C30 has been covered before, it's little more in appearance than an H24 with nothing on the front and a disappointing power light (compared to the backlit logo of the Hx24/34 series).

For the sake of comparison, I also checked out Dish's Hopper. While it has some nice features (2TB hard drive, Sling, Prime Time Anytime); I found the rest of the unit and service lacking compared to the HR34 (only 3 tuners, not backward compatible with other Dish DVRs, including the former flagship 722).

Posted Image
DirecTV RVU client by dirtyblueshirt, on Flickr
Posted Image
DirecTV RVU TV Remote by dirtyblueshirt, on Flickr

I've been here since day one, staying a little further up the freeway at Nellis AFB; so I've been pacing my visits to the show. I should have more after Friday though, since I only brought the iPad with me (I have the SD card reader at least for photo uploads).

I would also note that the Booth Model for the Nikon 1 camera was sporting a red plastic dress today that featured... Swedish Fish candies on the bust. Seriously. :lol:

Posted Image
Nikon Booth Model by dirtyblueshirt, on Flickr
Posted Image
Nikon Booth Model by dirtyblueshirt, on Flickr
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#11 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 11:44 PM

I also chatted with one of the devs @ dish re Hopper and Joey. Instead of a cute little cuddly client, Joey resembles more of a hot running router. Not little or cute.

Was told the prime time 4 by recording is not compressed, but watching was limited to one station on one box.
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#12 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:47 AM

I also chatted with one of the devs @ dish re Hopper and Joey. Instead of a cute little cuddly client, Joey resembles more of a hot running router. Not little or cute.

Was told the prime time 4 by recording is not compressed, but watching was limited to one station on one box.


Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the Hopper and the Joey, but I think they're alienating customers by not providing full bidirectional compatibility with recent receivers like DirecTV has with their MRV. Also, adding a couple more tuners would help significantly.

Edit: the Hopper also (wisely) ditches the touchpad remote from the 722.

The Dish Network swag was decent though. There's a nice keychain, and something made of the hopper logo that I can't quite divine it's purpose.
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#13 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:09 AM

Here's a fun fact: there are 218 exhibitors named "Shenzen ... (something or other)". I'm personally avoiding these booths like the plague, since most center around iPhone cases of any design imaginable.
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#14 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:53 AM

...The C70 remote was certainly pleasant to hold, and while not as weighty as the current RF crop, the ergonomics were great. I really liked the toggles for the channel and volume changers. It would be nice to see this in a "grown up" form for the full-featured boxes. I would hope such a remote will keep the rubberized backing...

Thanks for the shot of the RC70 "live" ... hadn't seen it other then the mock up.
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#15 OFFLINE   Sgt. Slaughter

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:37 AM

Take it that even if they start using those 2.0 devices that users won't see any advantage from them till its incorporated into the actual boxes which would mean hoping the next released STB has this inside.
Otherwise the way I read and look at it the current boxes will limit you at the 100Mbps transmit speed.

With the new standard being faster than the 100Mbps Ethernet jack, I wonder if they at some point end up removing that part completely leaving you only the DECA option for connection to keep cost less and things more streamlined...

#16 OFFLINE   Sgt. Slaughter

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:42 AM

Btw great pics guys, and also reporting! Also nice to be able to put some faces with you guys on here, esp Earl.

looking forward to reading more.

#17 OFFLINE   Hdhead

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:55 AM

Thanks for the fantastic reports! Wish I could have joined you this year but I'm there in spirit!
2 - HR20-100s
1 - HR21-100
1 - HR21-700
1 - HR34 Genie
1 - H24-100
1 - H24-200
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#18 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 08:30 AM

HDTVfan's posts have been updated with pictures:


Here are some pictures I took onsite:

http://www.dbstalk.c...22&d=1326378554

http://www.dbstalk.c...23&d=1326378554

http://www.dbstalk.c...24&d=1326378554

http://www.dbstalk.c...25&d=1326378554

http://www.dbstalk.c...26&d=1326378554


Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

#19 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 11:44 PM

Here are some random photos I took of CES:

Attached Thumbnails

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  • Sigma.png

Edited by Stuart Sweet, 12 January 2012 - 08:38 AM.

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#20 ONLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:02 AM

A number of onsite DBSTalkers have a busy day scheduled. We'll also be gathering tonight for a DBSTalker dinner.

More reports, photos, etc. will be coming and added by sevral folks in this thread.
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