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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Can an HOA legally have provider-specific restrictions on satellite TV?


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45 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:15 AM

HOA / Apartment management - terms are interchangeable in this context.

The salient point is that they cannot prohibit an occupant from using another service, so long as the antenna is on his exclusive use area and subject to other constraints as listed in OTARD. However, that doesn't mean the occupant gets out of paying for the supplied service either.
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   HDSC

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:37 AM

James's comments are on the money.

I am on the BOD of a 96 unit Condo Association. Cable is furnished as part of the Regime fees. I have not always been on the Board. I have DTV at my other house and I like the Nascar in-car feeds during the races, so I put a dish up to bring my receiver and use occasionally. I installed on my limited common area outside. Of course the moaning began.

1. I did not penetrate any portion of the wall because they have concrete and rebar which could cause the 'building to fall down" PUN INTENDED. I mounted pole&dish in a 5gallon bucket filled with concrete on my 3rd floor deck.
2. I own the sliding glass doors so I was able to penetrate the coax by drilling in the frame then I was home free.
3. One of the BOD members knocked on my door and demanded to see my set-up to insure I had not violated any policy. I advised him to KMA.
4. That's why I am on the BOD's now. I am finishing my 3rd (2) year term this month.

#23 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:07 AM

James's comments are on the money.

I am on the BOD of a 96 unit Condo Association. Cable is furnished as part of the Regime fees. I have not always been on the Board. I have DTV at my other house and I like the Nascar in-car feeds during the races, so I put a dish up to bring my receiver and use occasionally. I installed on my limited common area outside. Of course the moaning began.

1. I did not penetrate any portion of the wall because they have concrete and rebar which could cause the 'building to fall down" PUN INTENDED. I mounted pole&dish in a 5gallon bucket filled with concrete on my 3rd floor deck.
2. I own the sliding glass doors so I was able to penetrate the coax by drilling in the frame then I was home free.
3. One of the BOD members knocked on my door and demanded to see my set-up to insure I had not violated any policy. I advised him to KMA.
4. That's why I am on the BOD's now. I am finishing my 3rd (2) year term this month.


Excellent! I would have loved to have seen the expression on the intrusive man's face when you told him to kiss off.

Curious: Would a strong expoxy on the wall been an option? - Or would the extra weight of the dish and mount cause undue stress on the concrete and rebar? :nono2:

Edited by Laxguy, 18 January 2012 - 11:09 AM.
grammar

"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#24 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:15 AM

That link contains some relevant info, but it takes place in an apartment complex, not an HOA.


OTARD do cover both places same way. With difference in physical location of your equipment it would be same as legality arise.

#25 OFFLINE   HDSC

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 01:02 PM

Excellent! I would have loved to have seen the expression on the intrusive man's face when you told him to kiss off.

Curious: Would a strong expoxy on the wall been an option? - Or would the extra weight of the dish and mount cause undue stress on the concrete and rebar? :nono2:



Well that is a good question! We do have a Professional Management Company and I know the first thing they would do is request a copy of the engineering study done to ask PSI coverage. Of course the cost most of the time out weighs the desire. But we do have many Professionals that own here and they do have the resources. I try to use good ole common sense on issues brought up for a vote or discussion..

#26 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:16 PM

Curious: Would a strong expoxy on the wall been an option? - Or would the extra weight of the dish and mount cause undue stress on the concrete and rebar? :nono2:

That would raise the separate question of damage to the wall. If the wall could not be easily restored to the preinstalled state I would not expect the installation method to be approved.

#27 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:19 PM

That would raise the separate question of damage to the wall. If the wall could not be easily restored to the preinstalled state I would not expect the installation method to be approved.


Of course. I was anticipating a concrete surface, rough enough to get a grip on, but, yes, a lot of questions may get raised. Like the old West, shoot the glue first and ask questions later....
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#28 OFFLINE   bgrpph

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:09 PM

interesting discussion- otard applies only to 1 meter dishes and smaller(except in alaska where it applies to any size dish)-
In Honolulu DirectTV requires a 1.2 meter dish for service. Technically a Hawaii HOA could prohibit dishes over 1 meter which would restrict satellite service to only Dish network which use 2 one-meter dish-
our HOA just recently approved change in our rules to allow dishes up to 50" so as not to restrict usage of provider.

#29 OFFLINE   NR4P

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:56 PM

All HOA's aren't bad. I live in one and I have multiple antennas. Some folks have basketball courts, others have volleyball courts and tennis courts. Just pointing out that there are some very reasonable places with minimal rules.

We own our roads so that's why the HOA makes sense. We decide who comes in. You can't do that on public roads. And in today's current news with foreclosures, we've forced a bank or two to keep the property up from weeds etc. Sometimes its good.

But back to the original OP question, if its a true HOA and you own your roof and walls, then OTARD means you can put up the TV antenna or Sat dish up to 1 meter in length. If its shared, you may have issues and then I'm surprised its not a Condo Assoc.

#30 OFFLINE   satradfan

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:22 PM

I live in a condo with a limited use patio where I can place a satellite dish. I have lived here for 3 years and have had both a Directv and Dish network dish out there since moving.

I just received a form from the HOA and HOA attorney that they want me to fill out in order to get "pre-approval" for my dishes. They said they are now trying to enforce satellite dish rules. But the letter also states that the HOA has made a decision to limit it to one dish only and want me to remove one.

The FCC rules clearly state that they cannot limit the number of dishes.

Q: Can a restriction limit the number of antennas that may be installed at a particular location?

A:The Commission’s rule covers the antennas necessary to receive service. Therefore, a local rule may not, for example, allow only one antenna if more than one antenna is necessary to receive the desired service.


However, the HOA did install a common Directv satellite dish for the units to use, but the lowest base package is through a 3rd party and is $65 per month (much higher than the lowest possible package I could get from Directv directly.)


THE FCC's WEBSITE STATES:

Q: If my association, building management, landlord, or property owner provides a central antenna, may I install an individual antenna?

A: Generally, the availability of a central antenna may allow the association, landlord, property owner, or other management entity to restrict the installation by individuals of antennas otherwise protected by the rule. Restrictions based on the availability of a central antenna will generally be permissible provided that: (3) the costs associated with the use of the central antenna are not greater than the costs of installation, maintenance and use of an individual antenna covered under the rule


Because the cost to use the central Directv dish is greater than my individual dish I feel like I am legally entitled to have both satellite dishes on my patio.

The attorney has agreed to a temporary solution in which I "beautify" the dishes a bit. I said fine I'll do that. But still wants me to fill out the form. And I said I would be happy to fill out the form as soon as we come to a permanent solution.

Since the dishes are already up and I feel like I am completely within my rights and within the law I believe it is up to the HOA to prove that I am not. And they will have to go to the FCC for a ruling on the matter as long as I hold my ground.

What do other people think?

#31 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:36 PM

See Lord Vader battle's thread.

#32 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:17 PM

I'd provide your HOA and their attorney a copy of the FCC OTARD and highlight the applicable sections. There is also a section that prohibits pre-approvals.

But could you define what you meant by 'limited use' patio?

I live in a condo with a limited use patio where I can place a satellite dish.



#33 OFFLINE   satradfan

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:36 PM

My satellite dishes are in a place that is covered by the FCC. The only issue they have is that I have two satellite dishes.

#34 OFFLINE   Justin23

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:40 PM

My satellite dishes are in a place that is covered by the FCC. The only issue they have is that I have two satellite dishes.


Tell them to go pound sand...

#35 OFFLINE   satradfan

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:33 AM

But the attorney is arguing that because they offer DirecTV service through a central dish I have to take my DirecTV dish down.

I told him that I can get DirecTV cheaper on my own and that if they want to allow me to access the central dish for free and have my own DirecTV account then I will do that.

But one of the FCC rules states that they can only limit my DirecTV dish if... (3) the costs associated with the use of the central antenna are not greater than the costs of installation, maintenance and use of an individual antenna covered under the rule.

The costs are greater to use the central dish.

Now the attorney is asking when my current contract for service ends with DirecTV and Dish. He keeps snooping with a bunch of questions that are irrelevant and I don't like it. I also don't want to be difficult.

#36 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:36 AM

It sounds like it is time to find your own attorney ... and decide what the best route forward will be.

#37 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:10 AM

You might want to call the FCC to see how they have enforced/interpeted that section in the past.

Edit (added): are the services/channels available on the central antenna the same as you can get with your dish? Like sports packages and MRV? You didn't mention part 1 of that section you quoted above, so I wasn't sure if this was another argument you could use.

Restrictions based on the availability of a central antenna will generally be permissible provided that: (1) the person receives the particular video programming or fixed wireless service that the person desires and could receive with an individual antenna covered under the rule (e.g., the person would be entitled to receive service from a specific provider, not simply a provider selected by the association);


Edited by trh, 21 September 2012 - 05:30 AM.


#38 OFFLINE   Justin23

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:04 AM

Contact the SBCA

Satellite Broadcasting & Communication Association

www.SBCA.com

#39 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

Many years ago, I received a "White Area" request from someone in Park City, Utah. It was someone who lived in a HOA-controlled building, who claimed that they were not allowed to have more than one dish....among other excuses.

After calling them, I had a couple of discussions with an attorney at the FCC, who stated that they could have as many dishes as they needed, from as many different providers as they wanted, in order to get the programming they desired. The only requirements, at that location (not historic district, etc) were that they had to be on their own "controlled" area (balcony or patio), and the building did not provide a central dish or antenna to the tenants.

I went there and found that nearly everybody had one or more dishes and TV antennas. And, the viewer was actually a Secret Service employee.
I think they were testing us ;) .

#40 OFFLINE   domingos35

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:04 AM

Yep, and the reason I would NEVER live in a HOA. The whole point in owning a house is doing what you want with it.


i live in an HOA and love it
no rusting cars setting in driveways,grass always nice and cut etc etc
they allow sat dishes as long as its installed in the back of the house




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