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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Can an HOA legally have provider-specific restrictions on satellite TV?


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45 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:16 PM

Curious: Would a strong expoxy on the wall been an option? - Or would the extra weight of the dish and mount cause undue stress on the concrete and rebar? :nono2:

That would raise the separate question of damage to the wall. If the wall could not be easily restored to the preinstalled state I would not expect the installation method to be approved.

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#27 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:19 PM

That would raise the separate question of damage to the wall. If the wall could not be easily restored to the preinstalled state I would not expect the installation method to be approved.


Of course. I was anticipating a concrete surface, rough enough to get a grip on, but, yes, a lot of questions may get raised. Like the old West, shoot the glue first and ask questions later....
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#28 OFFLINE   bgrpph

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:09 PM

interesting discussion- otard applies only to 1 meter dishes and smaller(except in alaska where it applies to any size dish)-
In Honolulu DirectTV requires a 1.2 meter dish for service. Technically a Hawaii HOA could prohibit dishes over 1 meter which would restrict satellite service to only Dish network which use 2 one-meter dish-
our HOA just recently approved change in our rules to allow dishes up to 50" so as not to restrict usage of provider.

#29 OFFLINE   NR4P

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:56 PM

All HOA's aren't bad. I live in one and I have multiple antennas. Some folks have basketball courts, others have volleyball courts and tennis courts. Just pointing out that there are some very reasonable places with minimal rules.

We own our roads so that's why the HOA makes sense. We decide who comes in. You can't do that on public roads. And in today's current news with foreclosures, we've forced a bank or two to keep the property up from weeds etc. Sometimes its good.

But back to the original OP question, if its a true HOA and you own your roof and walls, then OTARD means you can put up the TV antenna or Sat dish up to 1 meter in length. If its shared, you may have issues and then I'm surprised its not a Condo Assoc.

#30 OFFLINE   satradfan

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:22 PM

I live in a condo with a limited use patio where I can place a satellite dish. I have lived here for 3 years and have had both a Directv and Dish network dish out there since moving.

I just received a form from the HOA and HOA attorney that they want me to fill out in order to get "pre-approval" for my dishes. They said they are now trying to enforce satellite dish rules. But the letter also states that the HOA has made a decision to limit it to one dish only and want me to remove one.

The FCC rules clearly state that they cannot limit the number of dishes.

Q: Can a restriction limit the number of antennas that may be installed at a particular location?

A:The Commission’s rule covers the antennas necessary to receive service. Therefore, a local rule may not, for example, allow only one antenna if more than one antenna is necessary to receive the desired service.


However, the HOA did install a common Directv satellite dish for the units to use, but the lowest base package is through a 3rd party and is $65 per month (much higher than the lowest possible package I could get from Directv directly.)


THE FCC's WEBSITE STATES:

Q: If my association, building management, landlord, or property owner provides a central antenna, may I install an individual antenna?

A: Generally, the availability of a central antenna may allow the association, landlord, property owner, or other management entity to restrict the installation by individuals of antennas otherwise protected by the rule. Restrictions based on the availability of a central antenna will generally be permissible provided that: (3) the costs associated with the use of the central antenna are not greater than the costs of installation, maintenance and use of an individual antenna covered under the rule


Because the cost to use the central Directv dish is greater than my individual dish I feel like I am legally entitled to have both satellite dishes on my patio.

The attorney has agreed to a temporary solution in which I "beautify" the dishes a bit. I said fine I'll do that. But still wants me to fill out the form. And I said I would be happy to fill out the form as soon as we come to a permanent solution.

Since the dishes are already up and I feel like I am completely within my rights and within the law I believe it is up to the HOA to prove that I am not. And they will have to go to the FCC for a ruling on the matter as long as I hold my ground.

What do other people think?

#31 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:36 PM

See Lord Vader battle's thread.

#32 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:17 PM

I'd provide your HOA and their attorney a copy of the FCC OTARD and highlight the applicable sections. There is also a section that prohibits pre-approvals.

But could you define what you meant by 'limited use' patio?

I live in a condo with a limited use patio where I can place a satellite dish.



#33 OFFLINE   satradfan

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:36 PM

My satellite dishes are in a place that is covered by the FCC. The only issue they have is that I have two satellite dishes.

#34 OFFLINE   Justin23

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:40 PM

My satellite dishes are in a place that is covered by the FCC. The only issue they have is that I have two satellite dishes.


Tell them to go pound sand...

#35 OFFLINE   satradfan

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:33 AM

But the attorney is arguing that because they offer DirecTV service through a central dish I have to take my DirecTV dish down.

I told him that I can get DirecTV cheaper on my own and that if they want to allow me to access the central dish for free and have my own DirecTV account then I will do that.

But one of the FCC rules states that they can only limit my DirecTV dish if... (3) the costs associated with the use of the central antenna are not greater than the costs of installation, maintenance and use of an individual antenna covered under the rule.

The costs are greater to use the central dish.

Now the attorney is asking when my current contract for service ends with DirecTV and Dish. He keeps snooping with a bunch of questions that are irrelevant and I don't like it. I also don't want to be difficult.

#36 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:36 AM

It sounds like it is time to find your own attorney ... and decide what the best route forward will be.

#37 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:10 AM

You might want to call the FCC to see how they have enforced/interpeted that section in the past.

Edit (added): are the services/channels available on the central antenna the same as you can get with your dish? Like sports packages and MRV? You didn't mention part 1 of that section you quoted above, so I wasn't sure if this was another argument you could use.

Restrictions based on the availability of a central antenna will generally be permissible provided that: (1) the person receives the particular video programming or fixed wireless service that the person desires and could receive with an individual antenna covered under the rule (e.g., the person would be entitled to receive service from a specific provider, not simply a provider selected by the association);


Edited by trh, 21 September 2012 - 05:30 AM.


#38 OFFLINE   Justin23

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:04 AM

Contact the SBCA

Satellite Broadcasting & Communication Association

www.SBCA.com

#39 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

Many years ago, I received a "White Area" request from someone in Park City, Utah. It was someone who lived in a HOA-controlled building, who claimed that they were not allowed to have more than one dish....among other excuses.

After calling them, I had a couple of discussions with an attorney at the FCC, who stated that they could have as many dishes as they needed, from as many different providers as they wanted, in order to get the programming they desired. The only requirements, at that location (not historic district, etc) were that they had to be on their own "controlled" area (balcony or patio), and the building did not provide a central dish or antenna to the tenants.

I went there and found that nearly everybody had one or more dishes and TV antennas. And, the viewer was actually a Secret Service employee.
I think they were testing us ;) .

#40 OFFLINE   domingos35

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:04 AM

Yep, and the reason I would NEVER live in a HOA. The whole point in owning a house is doing what you want with it.


i live in an HOA and love it
no rusting cars setting in driveways,grass always nice and cut etc etc
they allow sat dishes as long as its installed in the back of the house

#41 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:55 AM

they allow sat dishes as long as its installed in the back of the house

but if putting the dish at the back prevents you from getting a signal, then that provision violates OTARD.

#42 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 11:23 AM

but if putting the dish at the back prevents you from getting a signal, then that provision violates OTARD.

OTARD allows many different restrictions based on common use areas vs private use areas. Define the front and side yards as common use and they may not be protected by OTARD.

I have lived in communities with a shared back yard ... it gave a nice large area where children could play together. That area would have been spoiled if people were able to put up fences and other obstructions on "their" part of the common property.

Personally as long as the dish is installed cleanly in the least obtrusive location possible and is maintained (in active use and not falling apart) I don't see a problem. But rusty dishes, anything unused or dishes placed where another location would work and be less obtrusive is not being a good neighbor.

#43 OFFLINE   PrinceLH

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 04:32 PM

Yep, and the reason I would NEVER live in a HOA. The whole point in owning a house is doing what you want with it.

Yeah, you should see my place. I put up a couple of solar panels, then a Directv dish, then a Canadian Shaw Direct, next a 40 foot T.V. tower, with dedicated UHF and VHF Hi antenna heads. Then I added a dedicated FM antenna at the 25 foot level, then came a Ku dish, now a C Band dish. I'm surprised that they haven't called Homeland Security, with all of the array's on the roof and back yard.

#44 OFFLINE   satinstallerguy

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

A HoA cannot stop an installation of a dish. However a HoA could require you to have a specific service no matter if you subscribe to another service.

 

FALSE....    HOA can require you to put the Dish in a secluded area as to not have to see it from the street etc...  However if LOS requires the dish in a location that IS visible they can not disallow it to be installed in that location.     The HOA can NOT tell you which service you can have either .........  That is illegal.



#45 OFFLINE   satinstallerguy

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

i live in an HOA and love it
no rusting cars setting in driveways,grass always nice and cut etc etc
they allow sat dishes as long as its installed in the back of the house

If LOS is only available in the front of a house,  It is allowed overriding the HOA rules.........    OTARD covers this.    



#46 OFFLINE   Volatility

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:07 PM

The HOA as well as apartments can NOT tell you that you can not have satellite TV period. This is against FCC regulations that protect sat.tv companies from unfair competition and/or other reasons. If you are told you can only get Comcast, Charter, Mediacom, whomever that is unlawful and they are violating FCC rules. Section 207 of the Telecommunications Act established October 1996 required the Federal Communications Commission to issue a set of rules that prohibit restrictions by zoning boards, homeowners' associations, and similar such organizations that try to keep a viewer from getting satellite tv services with direct broadcast satellite dishes. They can ONLY tell you that you can not have the dishes mounted in a certain position, but you can have it on a balcony or other areas as defined by the FCC rules. If you can not get it the signal in the area allowed then that is a NLOS issue. From the FCC website: The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas.  The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.

http://www.fcc.gov/g...on-devices-rule

 

If you're HOA or multi dwelling unit has stated you can not have sat.tv and must get cable tv instead, you can report them for violating the FCC rules. You can find a petition as stated on that FCC website by following the requirements in Section 1.4000c of the rule and write to:

Secretary, Federal Communications Commission
445 12th Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C.  20554
Attention:  Media Bureau

 

For more info you can call the FCC toll free at 1-888-225-5322


Edited by Volatility, 24 April 2013 - 09:10 PM.





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