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HR34 & HR24 Different OTA Channel Lists?


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35 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   denpri

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:42 PM

Here's a real mystery - Installed a new HR34 (F/W 4C9; SD GUI) along with a AM21N OTA adapter. Selected St. Louis, MO/E. St. Louis, IL "market" and HR34 IDed most (but not all) OTA channels. Next, installed a AM21N on a previously activated HR24 (F/W 57B; HD GUI) and selected the same "market". HOWEVER, the HR24 IDed a completely DIFFERENT list of OTA channels. The HR24 list is valid for this "market" but it omits a couple of the low-power channels listed in the HR34 list and includes a valid sub-channel not contained in the HR34 list.

Can anyone explain why two receivers would ID a completely different list of available OTA channels for a given market? Thanks!

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#2 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:14 PM

I am having the same issue. No answers so far...

http://www.dbstalk.c...426#post2935426

#3 OFFLINE   dettxw

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:21 PM

IIRC the HR34/AM21 combo may do a channel scan where the H2x/AM21 combo certainly does not, guide data is used.

-Steve- Subscriber since Sept 1998  My Complete Setup 

SWM16 / HR44-500 (2TB & AM21) / HR34-700 (3TB & AM21) / HR24-500 (2TB eSATA) / C31 via WCCK / C41 x2 / C41W / H25-700


#4 OFFLINE   denpri

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:42 PM

IIRC the HR34/AM21 combo may do a channel scan where the H2x/AM21 combo certainly does not, guide data is used.


Understand potential H2x "issue" but my issue involves a HR34 and HR24 (i.e., both DVR/AM21N combos).

#5 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:51 PM

Understand potential H2x "issue" but my issue involves a HR34 and HR24 (i.e., both DVR/AM21N combos).



He answered your question. There wasn't a H2X "issue".

The HR34 doesn't use a set list of OTA channels at this time. The H/HR2X series do.

#6 OFFLINE   denpri

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 06:02 PM

I am having the same issue. No answers so far...

http://www.dbstalk.c...426#post2935426


Wow. I've got the "reverse" issue! My HR34 shows 5 more OTA channels & subs than the HR24 list while the HR24 lists one sub not included in the HR34 list. I wonder if the OTA guide data contains a "sub-code" for the Receiver ID. If not, I'm clueless like you are.

Bottom line - I understand DirecTV's desire/need to NOT keep adding new channel and sub-channel Guide Data in the national feed for each "Market" but I'd like to have the AM21 "scan" just like a regular ATSC TV and "enable" available channels (& subs) and simply add a "local" Guide entry that lists Channel/Sub Number along with a standard message (contained in the Receiver F/W) such as "Local HD channel or sub-channel in your Market area". This approach would also faciltate eliminating "Market" channels that don't have adequate signal strength AT the customer's AM21/antenna location.

#7 OFFLINE   denpri

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 06:23 PM

He answered your question. There wasn't a H2X "issue".

The HR34 doesn't use a set list of OTA channels at this time. The H/HR2X series do.


OK. Just checked Guide Data for the "additional" HR34 locals & they all say "Regular Schedule" while the "mutual" HR34/HR24 listed channels contain program information. If I understand your comment, the HR34/AM21 combo DOES scan & list all available channels & subs at the customer location while the H/HR2X/AM21 combo simply uses the "canned" data in the national stream. This would explain the "added" HR34 entries AND the absence of two entries for an OTA that is probably not available at my particular antenna/location combintation although it DOES appear on the HR24.

Thanks for the clarification!

#8 OFFLINE   dettxw

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 06:26 PM

Sorry, rushed a response from work.
Meant HR2x.
Hey, at least the HR34 scans at all, even though you have no control other than a custom channel list.

-Steve- Subscriber since Sept 1998  My Complete Setup 

SWM16 / HR44-500 (2TB & AM21) / HR34-700 (3TB & AM21) / HR24-500 (2TB eSATA) / C31 via WCCK / C41 x2 / C41W / H25-700


#9 OFFLINE   denpri

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 06:41 PM

Sorry, rushed a response from work.
Meant HR2x.
Hey, at least the HR34 scans at all, even though you have no control other than a custom channel list.


I agree. Wonder if the H/HR2x F/W will ever be upgraded to "conform" to the HR34 method. I also agree it would be nice if a customer (or the F/W on a regular basis) could "rescan" and ID changes to sub-channels (and, in some cases, regular channels) without having to repeat the entire setup process. However, most customers probably don't need/want the AM21 & it's becoming a "niche" product. The only reason I added them is that I'll occasionally want to watch/record one of the sub-channels in my "market". Also, I notice the HR34 RVU functionality doesn't support OTA so I also have to wonder whether the AM21 will eventually disappear.

#10 OFFLINE   tkrandall

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:30 AM

Does anyone know if DirecTV is considering adding HR34 style OTA scanning capability to the HR20 and HR21-HR24 models (hooked to an AM-21)?

#11 OFFLINE   denpri

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:59 AM

I have no idea but it would seem they need to adopt a consistent "philosophy" on OTAs and I'd hope the HR34 approach will eventually be used on all OTA-capable receivers. One possible issue might be a lack of "hardware" in the older generation receivers but I hope it's just a F/W issue.

#12 OFFLINE   bobnielsen

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:48 AM

Does anyone know if DirecTV is considering adding HR34 style OTA scanning capability to the HR20 and HR21-HR24 models (hooked to an AM-21)?


We've been asking for this ever since the HR20 (and later the AM21) came out so I doubt it will be added now (although I would still like to see it).

#13 OFFLINE   dettxw

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:09 AM

Curious that scanning capability showed up on the HR34 after being absent on the earlier models.
I'm not sure if it's more likely that they'll remove scanning from the HR34 or add it to the other DVRs. I wouldn't bet either way.

-Steve- Subscriber since Sept 1998  My Complete Setup 

SWM16 / HR44-500 (2TB & AM21) / HR34-700 (3TB & AM21) / HR24-500 (2TB eSATA) / C31 via WCCK / C41 x2 / C41W / H25-700


#14 OFFLINE   tkrandall

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 01:38 PM

We've been asking for this ever since the HR20 (and later the AM21) came out so I doubt it will be added now (although I would still like to see it).


But SOMETHING motivated DirecTV to go with a scanning approach with the HR34. I would like to hope it is a change in philosophy that they will make retroactive to the other units via firmware.

Edited by tkrandall, 21 January 2012 - 02:32 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 01:55 PM

Does anyone know if I can force my HR34 to use the list of OTA channels from the Primary and Secondary Zip Codes? I am missing about 5 - 10 channels on the HR34... which show up on my HR24.

#16 OFFLINE   dettxw

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 03:25 PM

Does anyone know if I can force my HR34 to use the list of OTA channels from the Primary and Secondary Zip Codes? I am missing about 5 - 10 channels on the HR34... which show up on my HR24.

Excuse the stupid question, but does the HR24 tune the channels missing from the HR34 guide? Are these possibly weak or low power stations?

-Steve- Subscriber since Sept 1998  My Complete Setup 

SWM16 / HR44-500 (2TB & AM21) / HR34-700 (3TB & AM21) / HR24-500 (2TB eSATA) / C31 via WCCK / C41 x2 / C41W / H25-700


#17 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 04:09 PM

Yes, the HR24 tunes the stations. As an example, our local PBS station is channel 47. The HR24 tunes 47.1, 47.2 and 47.3 (as well as the DirecTV provided local on 47). The HR34 does not see 47.1, 47.2 or 47.3...

I noticed on the HR24 some of the OTA stations signal varies depending on the time of day... some stations tune in at night better than daytime. But it would be really nice to just have the station guide info available on the HR34, too.

I can try turning my antenna a bit and see if that makes any difference. Just takes a while to get through the initial Antenna Setup steps.

#18 OFFLINE   tkrandall

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:40 PM

Does the HR34 allow for "manual" channel OTA setup (i.e. typing in a RF frequency to tune and if finds a channel, it remembers it, like most television can?)....or only automated scanning OTA setup?

#19 OFFLINE   denpri

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 01:49 PM

Does the HR34 allow for "manual" channel OTA setup (i.e. typing in a RF frequency to tune and if finds a channel, it remembers it, like most television can?)....or only automated scanning OTA setup?


The problem with allowing a customer/owner of an OTA ATSC-enabled device (e.g., TV, AM21/N, etc.) to simply enter an "RF frequency" is WHAT frequency would they enter? In the "good old days" of OTA NTSC/analog television, the "channel number" was identical to the actual RF frequency. For example, OTA NTSC/analog "Channel 2" corresponded to an RF frequency of 54-60 MHz and there was a consistent, fixed correlation between an "advertised" Channel No. and RF frequency no matter where a particular station was located in the United States.

With the advent & subsequent rollout of OTA ATSC/digital television, this "link" was broken! In the OTA ATSC/digital "world", Channel 2 could correspond to virtually ANY RF frequency in the current "universe" of OTA ATSC/digital broadcast frequencies. For example, in my location, St. Louis, MO, Channel 2 (KTVI) is now "physically" broadcast on RF channel 43 or 644-650 MHz. However, a "Channel 2" located in another metropolitan area could be "physically" broadcast on a completely different RF channel such as 39, 26, etc.

In the OTA ATSC/digital "world", all of this physical-to-virtual "translation" is handled by the ATSC tuner AND accompanying device software. I believe the issue DirecTV must now face, in a post-transition world, is IF AND HOW it wants to handle OTA channels in terms of Guide Data AND overall OTA ATSC support. Don't forget - ALL TV sets sold (i.e., advertised as capable of OTA reception) in the United States must now support a OTA ATSC/digital "RF input" in addition to any other inputs (e.g., HDMI). Furthermore, DirecTV is also supporting a far larger "universe" of HD locals via their satellite system than they did 4-5 years ago when the digital transition started. IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised if the HR34/H25 models are the last products to support an OTA ATSC "interface".

#20 OFFLINE   gcd0865

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:44 AM

Does the HR34 allow for "manual" channel OTA setup (i.e. typing in a RF frequency to tune and if finds a channel, it remembers it, like most television can?)....or only automated scanning OTA setup?


I'm also very interested in whether the HR34/AM21N combination will allow manual (real) channel entry and saving the resulting stations in memory. And if so, is programming data automatically added in for such station(s) afterwards, where the manually-added station(s) was/were not part of the AM21N's primary/secondary zip code entry method of memorizing stations?

#21 OFFLINE   gcd0865

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 11:12 AM

Yes, the HR24 tunes the stations. As an example, our local PBS station is channel 47. The HR24 tunes 47.1, 47.2 and 47.3 (as well as the DirecTV provided local on 47). The HR34 does not see 47.1, 47.2 or 47.3...

I noticed on the HR24 some of the OTA stations signal varies depending on the time of day... some stations tune in at night better than daytime. But it would be really nice to just have the station guide info available on the HR34, too.

I can try turning my antenna a bit and see if that makes any difference. Just takes a while to get through the initial Antenna Setup steps.


Noticed from one of your other posts that you're receiving stations from the Peoria, IL market. Your PBS station, WTVP, uses 47.1/47.2/47.3 as its virtual channels, but its REAL broadcast channel is 46 (46.1/46.2/46.3) - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTVP.

On your HR34/AM21 combination (that currently does not see your virtual PBS channel numbers on 47.1/47.2/47.3), and assuming that your antenna is properly oriented, what happens if you manually enter in the REAL channel numbers 46.1/46.2/46.3 with your DirecTV remote? Does the HR34/AM21 then actually detect that real channels are there, and add them to your memorized list of stations? If so, does it add them by their virtual channel numbers (e.g., 47.1/47.2/47.3)?

Also wasn't entirely sure whether you had the original AM21's, the newer AM21N's (with the matte finish) or a mixture, among your HR34 and HR24. Some posters have reported differences in how the AM21 and AM21N act on the issues of scanning and manual addition of OTA stations.

#22 OFFLINE   dakeeney

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 04:07 PM

I'm new to DTV and had the install done 1/24/12. I have the HR-24. Does it support OTA? I see no OTA connection.:confused:

#23 OFFLINE   GP245

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 04:16 PM

By itself, no it doesn't.

For OTA you will have to buy a DirecTV AM21 or AM21N.

#24 OFFLINE   tkrandall

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 08:40 PM

With the advent & subsequent rollout of OTA ATSC/digital television, this "link" was broken! In the OTA ATSC/digital "world", Channel 2 could correspond to virtually ANY RF frequency in the current "universe" of OTA ATSC/digital broadcast frequencies.


Understood, but it is not a "problem."

Example - Let's say you get a new HDTV and hook it up directly to an antenna. You do not do a auto scan/setup. You know your market has several stations you want it to "know of". You know the true RF frequency for them.

Let's say channel "2" is really RF19. and Channel "5" is really RF25. You type in 19 on your brand new TV, it automatically detects the ATSC feed and instantly remaps is to virtual channel 2.1 From now on when you type in 2 on your remote you will get 2.1, which is really RF19. Likewise, you type in 25 in the remote the first time, and the TV maps to 5.1 hence after picking up the station that first time. Auto scanning feature essentially do this behind the scenes, tuning each true RF channel, and then virtually mapping any channels it finds from there.

#25 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 01:59 PM

Spent some time on this last night. Not very happy with the results. I re-aimed my antenna (was facing mostly south) to face west. Then re-ran the initial antenna setup on the HR34. Ended up losing more channels after it was completed. Still did not pick up any of the WTVP OTA signals. I guess I'll just aim the antenna south again... Seems to me the method the HR24 uses is better than the 'new' scanning feature the HR34 uses. At least in my case.

FWIW, I am using the older AM21. And I did have to RBR after re-running the antenna setup... HR34 was crazy unresponsive.

After having the HR34 for a few weeks now... I gotta say there is really only 2 features (for me) that make it better than the other HR models:

1) 5 tuners
2) extra storage

In my opinion, the HR34 is no faster than the HR24 (it might actually be slower), OTA options inferior on the HR34, I hardly ever use PIP, I don't use RVU, I don't care about series link limit, I miss having an optical digital audio output.

All that said, the 5 tuners and 1TB hard drive alone make it worth the money I spent.




Noticed from one of your other posts that you're receiving stations from the Peoria, IL market. Your PBS station, WTVP, uses 47.1/47.2/47.3 as its virtual channels, but its REAL broadcast channel is 46 (46.1/46.2/46.3) - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTVP.

On your HR34/AM21 combination (that currently does not see your virtual PBS channel numbers on 47.1/47.2/47.3), and assuming that your antenna is properly oriented, what happens if you manually enter in the REAL channel numbers 46.1/46.2/46.3 with your DirecTV remote? Does the HR34/AM21 then actually detect that real channels are there, and add them to your memorized list of stations? If so, does it add them by their virtual channel numbers (e.g., 47.1/47.2/47.3)?

Also wasn't entirely sure whether you had the original AM21's, the newer AM21N's (with the matte finish) or a mixture, among your HR34 and HR24. Some posters have reported differences in how the AM21 and AM21N act on the issues of scanning and manual addition of OTA stations.






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