Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Installer says dish must be within 15' of electric meter


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#21 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,942 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:41 AM

Guess I'll throw in my two cents:

15' is a good distance from the coax ground block to the ground rod/ electrical meter. The distance to the dish doesn't matter when a ground block is used.
A.K.A VOS

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   Old_School

Old_School

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 385 posts
  • LocationPA
Joined: Nov 28, 2011

Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:31 PM

Huh? Usually we used an attached #17 copper clad ground wire that comes with the coax to bond the ODU with the grounding block/approved (for grounding) splitter.
Are you saying that he ran a separate #10 Ground wire to the ODU, but then didn't attach it to the ODU?


No, he used the ground connected to the coax.. just only connected the SWS 8 and not the ODU....he claimed using lag bolts to the house grounds it enough:lol:

DirecTV Subscriber Since 1998
Xtra ~ NFLST

 

(1) HR44  

(1) C41W

 

SL3 LNB ~ Whole Home DVR


#23 OFFLINE   west99999

west99999

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 931 posts
Joined: May 11, 2007

Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:54 PM

the ground on the cable is meant to bond the dish and ground block/multiswitch then the #10 to the meter so if he done that then he done it correctly. As far as the OP situation you should contact dtv for another opinion.

#24 OFFLINE   CrustyOldGeezer

CrustyOldGeezer

    New Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 4 posts
Joined: Jan 26, 2012

Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:33 PM

As far as the OP situation you should contact dtv for another opinion.


I have a Supervisor/Sr. Installer coming Wednesday. I set it up for the morning so hopefully he'll be fresh. I'll have a hot pot of coffee and donuts with sprinkles waiting for him.:D

#25 OFFLINE   Old_School

Old_School

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 385 posts
  • LocationPA
Joined: Nov 28, 2011

Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:36 PM

I'll have a hot pot of coffee and donuts with sprinkles waiting for him.:D


Can i come be your installer???:D

DirecTV Subscriber Since 1998
Xtra ~ NFLST

 

(1) HR44  

(1) C41W

 

SL3 LNB ~ Whole Home DVR


#26 OFFLINE   TAK3210

TAK3210

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 143 posts
Joined: Dec 11, 2011

Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:30 AM

I have a Supervisor/Sr. Installer coming Wednesday. I set it up for the morning so hopefully he'll be fresh. I'll have a hot pot of coffee and donuts with sprinkles waiting for him.:D


Keeping the larger 10 AWG ground wire short while allowing the smaller 17 AWG wire with the coax to be as long as you want makes no sense whatsoever. So, maybe that's what they'll do. :lol:
HR24/100
HR23/700
H25/500

#27 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 19,190 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:06 AM

No, he used the ground connected to the coax.. just only connected the SWS 8 and not the ODU....he claimed using lag bolts to the house grounds it enough:lol:

If your house can have lag bolts threaded into it, it isn't a good bonding point.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#28 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 19,190 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:08 AM

Keeping the larger 10 AWG ground wire short while allowing the smaller 17 AWG wire with the coax to be as long as you want makes no sense whatsoever. So, maybe that's what they'll do. :lol:

A hair wire would do what needs to be done in terms of drawing off voltage buildup.

What the NEC requires for bonding points is a whole other issue (and it is 6ga, not 10ga).

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#29 OFFLINE   ndole

ndole

    Problem Solver

  • Registered
  • 1,900 posts
Joined: Aug 26, 2009

Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:11 AM

Keeping the larger 10 AWG ground wire short while allowing the smaller 17 AWG wire with the coax to be as long as you want makes no sense whatsoever. So, maybe that's what they'll do. :lol:


It makes perfect sense when you understand what their purposes are ;)
"He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else."

#30 OFFLINE   TAK3210

TAK3210

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 143 posts
Joined: Dec 11, 2011

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:41 AM

It makes perfect sense when you understand what their purposes are ;)


In this case mounting the dish on the shop building is desired for a good line of sight, right? And it seems likely that the shop has electrical service fed from the main house; for sake of argument, let's say a 60 amp service using 6 awg with a #8 ground. The rules as described here say that to ground the dish, you have to run a 17 awg wire all the way over to the main house to a ground block near the meter instead of grounding it at the outbuilding, thereby using the 8awg ground wire that's already connected to that same ground rod via the ground bus in the main electrical panel. Sorry, but that makes no sense to me.
HR24/100
HR23/700
H25/500

#31 OFFLINE   BarkingGhost

BarkingGhost

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 135 posts
Joined: Dec 29, 2007

Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:45 PM

As I read this thread I have to wonder how this cannot be resolved by placing the dish ground on the copper plumbing. BTW, how 'its' done in one location will surely differ from some other location. For instance, In the Atlanta market they place dished on poles for some people, well beyond 50' from the household service entrance ground.

My dish is mounted to my deck on the rear of the house. The run from it to the copper plumbing is probably borderline 15' (maybe more like 20'). I've had service with D* for a decade, with various upgrades to equipment and from a variety of D* installers and none of them complained about this kind of requirement--again, local codes of ignorance at play.

#32 OFFLINE   west99999

west99999

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 931 posts
Joined: May 11, 2007

Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:50 PM

Unless it is connected to the main water line within 5ft of where it exits the earth it is not grounded to code. Your installers have just been lazy and not wanted to fix it.

#33 OFFLINE   CrustyOldGeezer

CrustyOldGeezer

    New Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 4 posts
Joined: Jan 26, 2012

Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:45 AM

I have a Supervisor/Sr. Installer coming Wednesday. I set it up for the morning so hopefully he'll be fresh. I'll have a hot pot of coffee and donuts with sprinkles waiting for him.:D


I thought I'd give you guys an update on my installation fiasco. Turns out my first installer was just lazy. It was after 4:00 when he got there and I'm sure he knew that he'd be there until 10:00 with a 6 receiver install so he bailed. My big mistake, well one of my big mistakes, was letting him cancel the order. This put me in DTV order system hell. I couldn't place another order because my email/phone/something was tied up with the pending cancelled order. I had to use another email/phone number to place my new order. The original order has still not been cancelled after 3 weeks.

As for my "Wednesday (2/1) Supervisor/Sr. Installer" install... about 7:30 I receive the "I'm on my way" call from the installer. Voice sounded familiar, turned out to be the same guy! We agreed it made no sense for him to come give me the second opinion so he called his supervisor. Supervisor showed up around 8:30 and within 5 minutes agreed that we could put the dish in my desired location ~60 feet from the power service ground. 4 RG6 cables, one with a ground carrier, from the dish 60' to a ground block just above the power meter and 4 RG6 cables back 60' to the SWM16 in the attic just below the dish. I said great, let's do it! I'll even run the cable for you. Well it seems the first guy had my equipment on his truck and he's gone on to another installation. We can do it tomorrow (2/2). You need to call DTV and reschedule.

My next big mistake... NEVER RESCHEDULE! When you reschedule, you just get put back in the bottom of the queue and there is no indication anything is wrong. These guys are contractors. If you leave the ticket open, DTV sees there's an issue and gets involved. Apparently there are 2 things installers want... ratings of 10 and no involvement from DTV.

So I called DTV to reschedule for the next day (2/2). The soonest they had was 2/9. I called the supervisor back and he said go ahead and take 2/9 he'd raise the priority and after checking their schedule he said they'd be there Friday 2/3 from noon-4:00. So I called DTV back and took 2/9. And again verified with the supervisor... "we're good for Friday".

My next big mistake... GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING! So for the third time, I rearrange my schedule and took off work. Friday noon comes and the wait begins... At 3:30 I called the supervisor... apparently there was what they call a "mix-up", they have me down for 2/9 8am-noon. I called DTV to rant and of course in there system everything show to be :allthumbs. on schedule. After 30 minutes of explaining the situation, a formal complaint was filed... whatever that means. So for the 4th time, I clear my schedule and take off work, 2/9 8am-noon...

My next big mistake... 8AM-NOON MEANS 8AM-6PM! Around 10:00 I get the "I'm on my way" call from the installer. He shows up around 10:30, truck loaded with my equipment and a carton of cigarettes. Nice guy, did good work, but I was not expecting it to take 7+ hours.

So it's done! Installation process sucked but so far, after one day, I'm happy with the product. Picture quality is far better than Uverse. Only downside is not being able to pause live TV on receivers other than the HR34 but I'll trade that for not having the 4 stream limit that Uverse imposes.

My Lessons Learned...
1) Dish does NOT have to be within 15 feet of power meter. Ground block does, but dish has to be within 120-150 feet of SWM16. In my case it was ([DISH] -> 60' (3 RG6/1 RG6 w/ground) -> [Ground Block] -> 60' (4 RG6) -> [SWM16]) but ([DISH] -> 100' (3 RG6/1 RG6 w/ground) -> [Ground Block] -> 20' (4 RG6) -> [SWM16]) would work also. I'm closer to 150' than 120' and everything works great.
2) If it's a big job, schedule the morning appointment.
3) Only cancel if you really want to cancel.
4) Don't reschedule.
5) 8am-noon and noon-4pm refers to the time they will show up not when the work will be completed.

#34 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,942 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:11 AM

My Lessons Learned...
1) Dish does NOT have to be within 15 feet of power meter. Ground block does, but dish has to be within 120-150 feet of SWM16. In my case it was ([DISH] -> 60' (3 RG6/1 RG6 w/ground) -> [Ground Block] -> 60' (4 RG6) -> [SWM16]) but ([DISH] -> 100' (3 RG6/1 RG6 w/ground) -> [Ground Block] -> 20' (4 RG6) -> [SWM16]) would work also. I'm closer to 150' than 120' and everything works great.

120' is sort of pushing it. Rainfade may be a bit more than it would if this distance was less than the 45' max recommended length.
SWiM has an AGC range of 30 dB, to compensate for weather. You've used maybe 25% of this, in just getting the signals to the SWiM.
A.K.A VOS

#35 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,221 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:12 AM

120' is sort of pushing it. Rainfade may be a bit more than it would if this distance was less than the 45' max recommended length.
SWiM has an AGC range of 30 dB, to compensate for weather. You've used maybe 25% of this, in just getting the signals to the SWiM.


Advise that the OP perhaps invest in something like here?

http://www.sonorades...rget=homeowners

#36 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,942 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:24 AM

Advise that the OP perhaps invest in something like here?

http://www.sonorades...rget=homeowners

The LAL204a-T does look like a good fit.
Sonora seems to have added an AGC to this product, which makes them more flexible for installations like this.
A.K.A VOS

#37 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 19,190 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:24 AM

Unless it is connected to the main water line within 5ft of where it exits the earth it is not grounded to code.

It bears mentioning that said water line must be metallic and direct buried for at least 30' leading up to the connection point.

Metallic water lines are becoming progressively rare both inside and out.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#38 OFFLINE   Telcoguru

Telcoguru

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 18 posts
Joined: Dec 05, 2006

Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:59 PM

My understanding is that the ground block should be within 20' of the electrical ground using 10 gauge wire and if it is more than 20' away an 8' ground rod must be installed with 10 gauge wire to the ground block and 6 gauge wire back to the electrical ground.
DirecTV customer since 02-14-06
DirecTV AT-9 5-LNB "Sidecar" Installed 11-17-06
Zinwell WB68 6x8 Multiswitch Installed 11-17-06
H23-600 55" Sony BRAVIA® KDL-55NX720
H23-600 42" Sharp AQUOS® LC-42D64U
H23-600 32" Sony BRAVIA® XBR Series KDL-32XBR6
H23-600 25" Sharp 25K-M100

Deactivated H20-100 and 2 D11-100s




Protected By... spam firewall...And...