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SWM 8 or SWM 16 needed?


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#21 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:30 AM

The only question I would have is since I am now using my home network for MRV traffic how would the dvr know to switch over and start using the coax for dvr to dvr traffic since DECA is connected to my network for Internet access? I don't see why it would not try to seek out my network since it's connected that way today (which it could find since DECA would be connected to my network.) Does a reboot do it?

Thanks

All of the receivers you listed earlier would be connected this way:

http://www.dbstalk.c...77&d=1279075740

So the receiver wouldn't know the difference between your network and the DECA.
When you move to the receivers with internal DECA, most of them can't use the RJ-45 jack, because doing so turns off the DECA.
A.K.A VOS

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#22 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:59 AM

Thank you. That clears a lot up. I see that my existing Ethernet connection won't be used anymore. Instead of there being 4 connections into my switch to connect each dvr to the Internet there will be only one (located where everything comes into the house) connecting the DECA which then sends any Internet traffic to the switch and any MRV to the Coax. Right?

I do notice that the HR34 still has a ethernet connection so it must still need that splitter thing in your picture to plug a ethernet wire into it.

The Directv tech told me that since i was getting a SWM 16 that he would not have to switch anything out on my dish because all 4 wires coming from the dish could be used and there was no use in putting in the one that only has one wire coming into the house from the dish. Does that sound right?

Still not quite sure how the dvrs will know to use the DECA/Coax for MRV instead of the way it is connected today. I guess the only way I can test it while the dude is here would be to disconnect the deca from the internet and see if the mrv still works.

Sounds like the AM21 is kind of hit or miss with the HR34. It will be interesting to see what happens.

#23 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:11 AM

Here's what the SWiM-16 connections look like:

http://www.dbstalk.c...01&d=1261069733

Here's someone else's layout:

http://www.dbstalk.c...85&d=1274115523

The HR34 is the exception, where it can use both the ethernet and the internal DECA.
Some are using it to bridge from the DECA/coax network to the home network.
A.K.A VOS

#24 OFFLINE   azarby

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:12 AM

Thank you. That clears a lot up. I see that my existing Ethernet connection won't be used anymore. Instead of there being 4 connections into my switch to connect each dvr to the Internet there will be only one (located where everything comes into the house) connecting the DECA which then sends any Internet traffic to the switch and any MRV to the Coax. Right?

I do notice that the HR34 still has a ethernet connection so it must still need that splitter thing in your picture to plug a ethernet wire into it.

The Directv tech told me that since i was getting a SWM 16 that he would not have to switch anything out on my dish because all 4 wires coming from the dish could be used and there was no use in putting in the one that only has one wire coming into the house from the dish. Does that sound right?

Still not quite sure how the dvrs will know to use the DECA/Coax for MRV instead of the way it is connected today. I guess the only way I can test it while the dude is here would be to disconnect the deca from the internet and see if the mrv still works.

Sounds like the AM21 is kind of hit or miss with the HR34. It will be interesting to see what happens.


The HR34 will use the coax for DECA. If you do not have a broadband DECA and your HR34 has easy access to your router, you can use the HR34s RJ45 jack instead of the broadband DECA tha is connected to your router. In this case, the HR34 is the bridge to your home network. This is the way I have mine set up. It is one or the other, you don't want 2 connections to the home network.

Im not sure why you say the AM21is hit or miss. I have 2 HR34s and each one has an AM21 attached . I have no problems with either unit.

#25 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:48 AM

Where does the Cinema Connection Kit fit into this picture? It is what determines when there needs to be a connection from the coax onto the Internet for VOD, TV Apps, etc. or determines to send the traffic onto the internal coax for MRV, correct?

Someone earlier said that the AM21 didn't pick up all their channels is why I mentioned it. Good to hear you had a good experience.

#26 OFFLINE   doctrsnoop

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:57 AM

Where does the Cinema Connection Kit fit into this picture? It is what determines when there needs to be a connection from the coax onto the Internet for VOD, TV Apps, etc. or determines to send the traffic onto the internal coax for MRV, correct?

Someone earlier said that the AM21 didn't pick up all their channels is why I mentioned it. Good to hear you had a good experience.



The CCK is just a bridge between the SWM and your network (with it's internet). Just to confuse you, it also can bridge your DECA supported type network with the old non-supported ethernet network ( which is my setup )

5 - HR22-100 4 via regular ethernet, 1 via DECA, 2 HR21-700 networked via regular ethernet, HR21-100 networked via DECA, H25-500
R15-500 Inactive, H20-600 (ECO 2.0) inactive,D11 (Humax LD2060) inactive
Slimline 5 w/ SWM8 parallel w/ SWM16 w/DECA

#27 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:58 AM

Where does the Cinema Connection Kit fit into this picture? It is what determines when there needs to be a connection from the coax onto the Internet for VOD, TV Apps, etc. or determines to send the traffic onto the internal coax for MRV, correct?

In the diagram above, at the bottom, is a DECA connected to the router. This is the CCK. This can be omitted if you use a HR34 to connect to your router.
You still seem to be missing the part about the DECA themselves are doing all the routing of the traffic. With a CCK, it is merely the node that sends traffic/requests to your home network, and if you use the HR34 for this, [duh] it does this.
A.K.A VOS

#28 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:12 PM

In the diagram above, at the bottom, is a DECA connected to the router. This is the CCK. This can be omitted if you use a HR34 to connect to your router.
You still seem to be missing the part about the DECA themselves are doing all the routing of the traffic. With a CCK, it is merely the node that sends traffic/requests to your home network, and if you use the HR34 for this, [duh] it does this.


Well guys, I think I pretty much understand it for the most part. I didn't realize the CCK took up one of the channels of the SWM so I guess it can really only handle 15 tuners (unless I use the HR34 to connect to the Internet).

If I were to use the HR34 as my CCK is it as simple as connecting a coax from the 8 way splitter to the Sat In and an Ethernet wire connected to the Internet in the Ethernet port? My understanding is the HR34 already has a DECA built in so no use for one on it (same is true for the HR24 I believe).

If I were not to use the HR34 as a CCK I guess the internal DECA would do all the connectivity so no connection to the Ethernet port would be required to either do MRV or connect to the Internet. Is that correct?

I have a direct coax running to my Internet switch from where the HR34 will live. It is about 30 feet I would guess. Is that the optiminal solution or does it matter?

I notice on the diagram that the 8 way splitters are not balanced and in this post somewhere someone responded that it should be balanced as much as possible or it won't work. Is that true?

#29 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:16 PM

Well guys, I think I pretty much understand it for the most part. I didn't realize the CCK took up one of the channels of the SWM so I guess it can really only handle 15 tuners (unless I use the HR34 to connect to the Internet).


A CCK does NOT take a SWiM channel the only thing you need to count is the physical tuners, CCK's (be them DECA-BB or DECA-W) do not take a SWiM channel.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#30 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:26 PM

Well guys, I think I pretty much understand it for the most part. I didn't realize the CCK took up one of the channels of the SWM so I guess it can really only handle 15 tuners (unless I use the HR34 to connect to the Internet).

If I were to use the HR34 as my CCK is it as simple as connecting a coax from the 8 way splitter to the Sat In and an Ethernet wire connected to the Internet in the Ethernet port? My understanding is the HR34 already has a DECA built in so no use for one on it (same is true for the HR24 I believe).

If I were not to use the HR34 as a CCK I guess the internal DECA would do all the connectivity so no connection to the Ethernet port would be required to either do MRV or connect to the Internet. Is that correct?

I have a direct coax running to my Internet switch from where the HR34 will live. It is about 30 feet I would guess. Is that the optiminal solution or does it matter?

I notice on the diagram that the 8 way splitters are not balanced and in this post somewhere someone responded that it should be balanced as much as possible or it won't work. Is that true?

As RAD has posted, and I keep trying to get across to everyone, the DECA and the SWiM have NO interaction, and are completely separate.
If you connect the HR34 to your router, then it will act as the CCK bridging to your home network and the DECA networking.
While the HR24 also has both an internal DECA and a ethernet port, you can't use both, because when the ethernet cable is plugged in it turns off the internal DECA.

There are a lot of diagrams and installs with 8-way splitters, but there is no need for them unless you have more than four coax to connect.
There are 4-ways that will work better in a lot of cases.
As for "balancing", each output of the SWiM-16 works independently, so you could use all 8 on one leg and only 1 or 2 on the other.
Since the higher the frequency, the more loss through both splitters and coax, it makes more sense to average the tuners between the two SWiM legs, since this will leave the highest frequencies open/unused, on both outputs, and give the receivers the strongest signals.
A.K.A VOS

#31 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:21 PM

As RAD has posted, and I keep trying to get across to everyone, the DECA and the SWiM have NO interaction, and are completely separate.
If you connect the HR34 to your router, then it will act as the CCK bridging to your home network and the DECA networking.
While the HR24 also has both an internal DECA and a ethernet port, you can't use both, because when the ethernet cable is plugged in it turns off the internal DECA.

There are a lot of diagrams and installs with 8-way splitters, but there is no need for them unless you have more than four coax to connect.
There are 4-ways that will work better in a lot of cases.
As for "balancing", each output of the SWiM-16 works independently, so you could use all 8 on one leg and only 1 or 2 on the other.
Since the higher the frequency, the more loss through both splitters and coax, it makes more sense to average the tuners between the two SWiM legs, since this will leave the highest frequencies open/unused, on both outputs, and give the receivers the strongest signals.


Thank you. I believe I now could do it myself thanks to you guys and I definitely think I know more about it than the Directv installer that is coming. But I have to have him so my MRV will be considered "supported" by Directv.

I spoke with him today and he didn't even know that I'd need DECAs. So I told him to get me 4 and also a bandstop filter for my HR20. However he says the bandstop is only needed for non DVRs although I have seen a chart that clearly shows that the HR20 needs one. He says he carries them on his truck so I guess he'll learn the hard way when whatever the bandstop filter makes work won't work for him on my job until he puts it in. According to the diagram I saw I may need a 2 way splitter in order to install the bandfilter and who knows if he carries those on his truck.

I also told him that the HR34 could serve as the CCK and he wasn't aware of that either. I told him to ask and see what was faster - to use the HR34 or use a CCK to get to the Internet. We didn't discuss splitters but it seems I need 2 so i might should call him back and make sure he has them unless they come standard with the SWiM 16? I really dread trying to convince him to balance the legs of the SWiM 16 because he's probably never heard of that. I may end up redoing part of his work to maximize performance thanks to you guys.

I think I do have one final question. I only need 5 wires so do I need 2 8 way splitters to be balanced 7-6? I will be using 13 channels on the SWiM because of 13 tuners so I don't know how this part works so maybe he does.

Again, thanks so much.

Edited by hornmdt, 02 February 2012 - 04:23 PM.


#32 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:02 PM

Only the HR20-100 needs the BSF. So check your model number and only use it if it is the -100.

Read this thread for all the details.

#33 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:06 PM

Only the HR20-100 needs the BSF.


Yes that's what I told him but he disagrees so he'll have to learn the hard way.

#34 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:13 PM

Yes that's what I told him but he disagrees so he'll have to learn the hard way.

Even with the HR20-100, you can skip the BSF if connected this way:
http://www.dbstalk.c...29&d=1273790719

THIS IS ONLY FOR THE HR20-100, and the -700 is like the post earlier without ANY splitter.

Maybe list all the receivers and "we" can add up how to connect which to which output for the smallest splitters
A.K.A VOS

#35 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:22 PM

Even with the HR20-100, you can skip the BSF if connected this way:
http://www.dbstalk.c...29&d=1273790719

THIS IS ONLY FOR THE HR20-100, and the -700 is like the post earlier without ANY splitter.

Maybe list all the receivers and "we" can add up how to connect which to which output for the smallest splitters


Mine is the 700 so does that mean it has to have the bandstop filter then?

#36 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:24 PM

Mine is the 700 so does that mean it has to have the bandstop filter then?

It should look EXACTLY LIKE the image in post 21
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#37 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:40 PM

When your installer shows up, log in here and post any problems.

Also, do NOT let him leave until everything works.

#38 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:44 PM

... I think I do have one final question. I only need 5 wires so do I need 2 8 way splitters to be balanced 7-6? I will be using 13 channels on the SWiM because of 13 tuners so I don't know how this part works so maybe he does.

Again, thanks so much. ...


Well, with the HR34 in the mix, a 1 x 2 and a 1 x 4 would work as a minimum for your batch of receivers. The HR34 and one HD-DVR on the 1 x 2 and the other three HD-DVRs and CCK on the 1 x 4.

The thing is when I had my WH done back early in the program around mid 2010, the tech said the standard install policy for the SWiM-16 was a 1 x 8 splitter on each leg regardless of the number of needed tuners between 9-16 (I needed 12 tuners for 6 DVRs at the time).

So unless this totally unnecessary and wasteful install policy has changed since, you may get two 1 x 8 splitters for the SWiM-16, and have to purchase lesser ones and replace them yourself.

#39 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

The thing is when I had my WH done back early in the program around mid 2010, the tech said the standard install policy for the SWiM-16 was a 1 x 8 splitter on each leg regardless of the number of needed tuners between 9-16 (I needed 12 tuners for 6 DVRs at the time).


And my installer had a 1x8 running my 6 boxes (11 tuners). It didn't work. So he had to install another splitter (1x8 -- which is all he had) and split the DVRs out so no more than 8 on a leg. I bought a 2-way and 4-way and cleaned it up later.

#40 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:56 PM

Well, with the HR34 in the mix, a 1 x 2 and a 1 x 4 would work as a minimum for your batch of receivers. The HR34 and one HD-DVR on the 1 x 2 and the other three HD-DVRs and CCK on the 1 x 4.

The thing is when I had my WH done back early in the program around mid 2010, the tech said the standard install policy for the SWiM-16 was a 1 x 8 splitter on each leg regardless of the number of needed tuners between 9-16 (I needed 12 tuners for 6 DVRs at the time).

So unless this totally unnecessary and wasteful install policy has changed since, you may get two 1 x 8 splitters for the SWiM-16, and have to purchase lesser ones and replace them yourself.

I think at first they only had 8-ways in stock.
My mover's connection had them start with a 4-way, then think they needed an 8-way, and finally me showing them how a 4-way would work for everything.
I would have a 4-way on each output. This would take care of "today", and might leave a port or two free for other tuners in the future.
A.K.A VOS




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