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SWM 8 or SWM 16 needed?


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54 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   doctrsnoop

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:57 AM

Where does the Cinema Connection Kit fit into this picture? It is what determines when there needs to be a connection from the coax onto the Internet for VOD, TV Apps, etc. or determines to send the traffic onto the internal coax for MRV, correct?

Someone earlier said that the AM21 didn't pick up all their channels is why I mentioned it. Good to hear you had a good experience.



The CCK is just a bridge between the SWM and your network (with it's internet). Just to confuse you, it also can bridge your DECA supported type network with the old non-supported ethernet network ( which is my setup )

5 - HR22-100 4 via regular ethernet, 1 via DECA, 2 HR21-700 networked via regular ethernet, HR21-100 networked via DECA, H25-500
R15-500 Inactive, H20-600 (ECO 2.0) inactive,D11 (Humax LD2060) inactive
Slimline 5 w/ SWM8 parallel w/ SWM16 w/DECA

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#27 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:58 AM

Where does the Cinema Connection Kit fit into this picture? It is what determines when there needs to be a connection from the coax onto the Internet for VOD, TV Apps, etc. or determines to send the traffic onto the internal coax for MRV, correct?

In the diagram above, at the bottom, is a DECA connected to the router. This is the CCK. This can be omitted if you use a HR34 to connect to your router.
You still seem to be missing the part about the DECA themselves are doing all the routing of the traffic. With a CCK, it is merely the node that sends traffic/requests to your home network, and if you use the HR34 for this, [duh] it does this.
A.K.A VOS

#28 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:12 PM

In the diagram above, at the bottom, is a DECA connected to the router. This is the CCK. This can be omitted if you use a HR34 to connect to your router.
You still seem to be missing the part about the DECA themselves are doing all the routing of the traffic. With a CCK, it is merely the node that sends traffic/requests to your home network, and if you use the HR34 for this, [duh] it does this.


Well guys, I think I pretty much understand it for the most part. I didn't realize the CCK took up one of the channels of the SWM so I guess it can really only handle 15 tuners (unless I use the HR34 to connect to the Internet).

If I were to use the HR34 as my CCK is it as simple as connecting a coax from the 8 way splitter to the Sat In and an Ethernet wire connected to the Internet in the Ethernet port? My understanding is the HR34 already has a DECA built in so no use for one on it (same is true for the HR24 I believe).

If I were not to use the HR34 as a CCK I guess the internal DECA would do all the connectivity so no connection to the Ethernet port would be required to either do MRV or connect to the Internet. Is that correct?

I have a direct coax running to my Internet switch from where the HR34 will live. It is about 30 feet I would guess. Is that the optiminal solution or does it matter?

I notice on the diagram that the 8 way splitters are not balanced and in this post somewhere someone responded that it should be balanced as much as possible or it won't work. Is that true?

#29 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:16 PM

Well guys, I think I pretty much understand it for the most part. I didn't realize the CCK took up one of the channels of the SWM so I guess it can really only handle 15 tuners (unless I use the HR34 to connect to the Internet).


A CCK does NOT take a SWiM channel the only thing you need to count is the physical tuners, CCK's (be them DECA-BB or DECA-W) do not take a SWiM channel.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#30 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:26 PM

Well guys, I think I pretty much understand it for the most part. I didn't realize the CCK took up one of the channels of the SWM so I guess it can really only handle 15 tuners (unless I use the HR34 to connect to the Internet).

If I were to use the HR34 as my CCK is it as simple as connecting a coax from the 8 way splitter to the Sat In and an Ethernet wire connected to the Internet in the Ethernet port? My understanding is the HR34 already has a DECA built in so no use for one on it (same is true for the HR24 I believe).

If I were not to use the HR34 as a CCK I guess the internal DECA would do all the connectivity so no connection to the Ethernet port would be required to either do MRV or connect to the Internet. Is that correct?

I have a direct coax running to my Internet switch from where the HR34 will live. It is about 30 feet I would guess. Is that the optiminal solution or does it matter?

I notice on the diagram that the 8 way splitters are not balanced and in this post somewhere someone responded that it should be balanced as much as possible or it won't work. Is that true?

As RAD has posted, and I keep trying to get across to everyone, the DECA and the SWiM have NO interaction, and are completely separate.
If you connect the HR34 to your router, then it will act as the CCK bridging to your home network and the DECA networking.
While the HR24 also has both an internal DECA and a ethernet port, you can't use both, because when the ethernet cable is plugged in it turns off the internal DECA.

There are a lot of diagrams and installs with 8-way splitters, but there is no need for them unless you have more than four coax to connect.
There are 4-ways that will work better in a lot of cases.
As for "balancing", each output of the SWiM-16 works independently, so you could use all 8 on one leg and only 1 or 2 on the other.
Since the higher the frequency, the more loss through both splitters and coax, it makes more sense to average the tuners between the two SWiM legs, since this will leave the highest frequencies open/unused, on both outputs, and give the receivers the strongest signals.
A.K.A VOS

#31 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:21 PM

As RAD has posted, and I keep trying to get across to everyone, the DECA and the SWiM have NO interaction, and are completely separate.
If you connect the HR34 to your router, then it will act as the CCK bridging to your home network and the DECA networking.
While the HR24 also has both an internal DECA and a ethernet port, you can't use both, because when the ethernet cable is plugged in it turns off the internal DECA.

There are a lot of diagrams and installs with 8-way splitters, but there is no need for them unless you have more than four coax to connect.
There are 4-ways that will work better in a lot of cases.
As for "balancing", each output of the SWiM-16 works independently, so you could use all 8 on one leg and only 1 or 2 on the other.
Since the higher the frequency, the more loss through both splitters and coax, it makes more sense to average the tuners between the two SWiM legs, since this will leave the highest frequencies open/unused, on both outputs, and give the receivers the strongest signals.


Thank you. I believe I now could do it myself thanks to you guys and I definitely think I know more about it than the Directv installer that is coming. But I have to have him so my MRV will be considered "supported" by Directv.

I spoke with him today and he didn't even know that I'd need DECAs. So I told him to get me 4 and also a bandstop filter for my HR20. However he says the bandstop is only needed for non DVRs although I have seen a chart that clearly shows that the HR20 needs one. He says he carries them on his truck so I guess he'll learn the hard way when whatever the bandstop filter makes work won't work for him on my job until he puts it in. According to the diagram I saw I may need a 2 way splitter in order to install the bandfilter and who knows if he carries those on his truck.

I also told him that the HR34 could serve as the CCK and he wasn't aware of that either. I told him to ask and see what was faster - to use the HR34 or use a CCK to get to the Internet. We didn't discuss splitters but it seems I need 2 so i might should call him back and make sure he has them unless they come standard with the SWiM 16? I really dread trying to convince him to balance the legs of the SWiM 16 because he's probably never heard of that. I may end up redoing part of his work to maximize performance thanks to you guys.

I think I do have one final question. I only need 5 wires so do I need 2 8 way splitters to be balanced 7-6? I will be using 13 channels on the SWiM because of 13 tuners so I don't know how this part works so maybe he does.

Again, thanks so much.

Edited by hornmdt, 02 February 2012 - 04:23 PM.


#32 ONLINE   trh

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:02 PM

Only the HR20-100 needs the BSF. So check your model number and only use it if it is the -100.

Read this thread for all the details.

#33 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:06 PM

Only the HR20-100 needs the BSF.


Yes that's what I told him but he disagrees so he'll have to learn the hard way.

#34 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:13 PM

Yes that's what I told him but he disagrees so he'll have to learn the hard way.

Even with the HR20-100, you can skip the BSF if connected this way:
http://www.dbstalk.c...29&d=1273790719

THIS IS ONLY FOR THE HR20-100, and the -700 is like the post earlier without ANY splitter.

Maybe list all the receivers and "we" can add up how to connect which to which output for the smallest splitters
A.K.A VOS

#35 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:22 PM

Even with the HR20-100, you can skip the BSF if connected this way:
http://www.dbstalk.c...29&d=1273790719

THIS IS ONLY FOR THE HR20-100, and the -700 is like the post earlier without ANY splitter.

Maybe list all the receivers and "we" can add up how to connect which to which output for the smallest splitters


Mine is the 700 so does that mean it has to have the bandstop filter then?

#36 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:24 PM

Mine is the 700 so does that mean it has to have the bandstop filter then?

It should look EXACTLY LIKE the image in post 21
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#37 ONLINE   trh

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:40 PM

When your installer shows up, log in here and post any problems.

Also, do NOT let him leave until everything works.

#38 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:44 PM

... I think I do have one final question. I only need 5 wires so do I need 2 8 way splitters to be balanced 7-6? I will be using 13 channels on the SWiM because of 13 tuners so I don't know how this part works so maybe he does.

Again, thanks so much. ...


Well, with the HR34 in the mix, a 1 x 2 and a 1 x 4 would work as a minimum for your batch of receivers. The HR34 and one HD-DVR on the 1 x 2 and the other three HD-DVRs and CCK on the 1 x 4.

The thing is when I had my WH done back early in the program around mid 2010, the tech said the standard install policy for the SWiM-16 was a 1 x 8 splitter on each leg regardless of the number of needed tuners between 9-16 (I needed 12 tuners for 6 DVRs at the time).

So unless this totally unnecessary and wasteful install policy has changed since, you may get two 1 x 8 splitters for the SWiM-16, and have to purchase lesser ones and replace them yourself.

#39 ONLINE   trh

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

The thing is when I had my WH done back early in the program around mid 2010, the tech said the standard install policy for the SWiM-16 was a 1 x 8 splitter on each leg regardless of the number of needed tuners between 9-16 (I needed 12 tuners for 6 DVRs at the time).


And my installer had a 1x8 running my 6 boxes (11 tuners). It didn't work. So he had to install another splitter (1x8 -- which is all he had) and split the DVRs out so no more than 8 on a leg. I bought a 2-way and 4-way and cleaned it up later.

#40 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:56 PM

Well, with the HR34 in the mix, a 1 x 2 and a 1 x 4 would work as a minimum for your batch of receivers. The HR34 and one HD-DVR on the 1 x 2 and the other three HD-DVRs and CCK on the 1 x 4.

The thing is when I had my WH done back early in the program around mid 2010, the tech said the standard install policy for the SWiM-16 was a 1 x 8 splitter on each leg regardless of the number of needed tuners between 9-16 (I needed 12 tuners for 6 DVRs at the time).

So unless this totally unnecessary and wasteful install policy has changed since, you may get two 1 x 8 splitters for the SWiM-16, and have to purchase lesser ones and replace them yourself.

I think at first they only had 8-ways in stock.
My mover's connection had them start with a 4-way, then think they needed an 8-way, and finally me showing them how a 4-way would work for everything.
I would have a 4-way on each output. This would take care of "today", and might leave a port or two free for other tuners in the future.
A.K.A VOS

#41 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:59 PM

Any one have an opinion on whether it is better to use a CCK or just use the HR34 for Internet connectivity? Any technical reasons one way or the other?

#42 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:11 PM

Any one have an opinion on whether it is better to use a CCK or just use the HR34 for Internet connectivity? Any technical reasons one way or the other?

They should work exactly the same, "but" you may have problems with the tech, and it doesn't hurt to have one, even if it turns into a spare.
The 4-way splitters should be pushed to have him install, then a BB DECA [non wireless CCK] can be connected.
You could change it out and use the HR34, but if the HR34 acted up [some have], you can go back to the BB DECA.
Figure it's better to have more options than not enough.
There isn't ANY REASON for you to use 8-way splitters, with all the DVRs that you have, you could never need all the ports, and so there is no need to have the extra loss, and everything to gain (:lol:) by not.
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#43 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:14 PM

Any one have an opinion on whether it is better to use a CCK or just use the HR34 for Internet connectivity? Any technical reasons one way or the other?


You know its funny, up to about a week ago I would have said they're equal. But then I noticed this thread where dpeters11 and LoweBoy are having issues using the HR34 as the CCK.

http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=201537

So now I'm not so sure if it might cause problems using the HR34 for it ...

#44 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:19 PM

I think at first they only had 8-ways in stock.
My mover's connection had them start with a 4-way, then think they needed an 8-way, and finally me showing them how a 4-way would work for everything.
I would have a 4-way on each output. This would take care of "today", and might leave a port or two free for other tuners in the future.


At the time I thought it might be due to the total misconception at that early point in time there was a needed correlation between the 8 tuners on each SWiM-16 leg and the number of available ports on the SWiM splitters. :rolleyes:

#45 OFFLINE   azarby

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:53 PM

You know its funny, up to about a week ago I would have said they're equal. But then I noticed this thread where dpeters11 and LoweBoy are having issues using the HR34 as the CCK.

http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=201537

So now I'm not so sure if it might cause problems using the HR34 for it ...


Not sure what problems they are encountering. I've been using the HR34 connection with no problerms for over a month.

#46 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:21 PM

Not sure what problems they are encountering. I've been using the HR34 connection with no problerms for over a month.

The HR34 "should be" working as yours is, but some are having problems, so using the CCK is another option.
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#47 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:52 AM

Guys, Does the single coax from the SWiM splitter(s) to all 4 of my legacy receivers (HR20-700, HR22-100, HR23-700 (2)) go into the Sat 1 In input in order to make both tuners functional with the SWiM technology? My understanding is none require the Bandstop filter. The HR34 only has 1 Sat In so that one's not hard to figure out :).

Thanks

Edited by hornmdt, 08 February 2012 - 06:58 AM.


#48 ONLINE   Shades228

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:54 AM

Each receiver will have the SWM input labeled.

#49 OFFLINE   hornmdt

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:26 AM

Each receiver will have the SWM input labeled.


Can't get to 3 of them easily therefore I don't want to tear them out until the tech gets here so I can't check them. However the HR20-700 doesn't say anything any SWiM on either of it's Sat inputs. Sat 1 In has (FTM) under it and the Sat 2 In says nothing else. Does the FTM mean something for future SWiM use?

#50 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:31 AM

Does the FTM mean something for future SWiM use?


The terminology has changed; FTM is SWM.
SL3-Slimline to SWM16 - DECA
HR34-700, HR24-500, & HR22-100




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