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MLB Extra innings 2012


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#621 OFFLINE   Stewpidity

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:23 AM

Maybe they should show it if they played the Yankees? Every time I go to watch a game on MLB or ESPN, I swear its the Yankees. Seems like Yankee fans have no need for Extra Innings.


this is true, but i think if you look at the ratings the Yankees bring them, there devoted fans who watch as well as the haters who watch in the hopes they lose. :lol:

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#622 OFFLINE   adkinsjm

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:15 AM

The only problem with this is for some strange reason some teams have found a Saturday 6:30pm start works better for attendance than 7. So you are telling those teams that have this backed up with evidence "screw your attendance and finances. Start at 7 or after whether you like it or not."


A commissioner who uses the best interests clause will find himself out of a job. Selig still has an owner's mindset and anything he does has the consensus of nearly all of the owners.

#623 OFFLINE   keenan

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:21 AM

Part of the problem is the independent scheduling by home teams. Within parameters, the home team decides what time the game will be played. National broadcasts force some time decisions but a game that is only locally broadcast can be whatever time the home team says. There are limits but choice of 1, 4 or 7 is pretty much not under MLB control.

Personally, I think it is a whole lot of nothing. A few games a week. Big deal.


True, it's only a few games a week, but to the fan that can't see his favorite team play it could be the only game. What's more American and apple pie than watching your favorite team play on Saturday afternoon/evening? Except that you can't, you're stuck with watching 2 teams that FOX has decided you should watch, quite possibly 2 teams that you care absolutely zero about, so much for watching baseball on Saturday, might as well go pull some weeds.

This can be fixed and should be fixed.

#624 OFFLINE   HGuardian

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:26 PM

And if this ever happened (and it won't because NFL ST would die on the spot if it did since that's exactly what it's for) you'd have the choice to pay or not as you'd know this going into the season. It gets so ridiculous listening to people complain about being ripped off every year. You know the rules going in. And as I've stated in other threads before the rule is better than it used to be. Fox used to have national exclusivity from 1-7pm on Saturdays they aired games whether they aired at 1 or 4 and if half the league was on RSNs in the afternoon. Didn't matter as they were blacked out. At least now they get to only black out 1 slot now. Believe me, I am not a fan of the blackouts. Being a Braves fan in Tampa, when the Rays aren't on it's Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Phillies hell here. Even the Marlins who played a national game a couple weeks ago weren't shown here. It just gets so annoying listening to people year in and year out complain about this being "criminal" or MLB EI being a "ripoff" like the rules were changed midseason.


It's nice you created that strawman to pick apart for the 800th time but it's completely irrelevant to my post and past posts on this issue.

#625 OFFLINE   HGuardian

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:40 PM

True, it's only a few games a week, but to the fan that can't see his favorite team play it could be the only game. What's more American and apple pie than watching your favorite team play on Saturday afternoon/evening? Except that you can't, you're stuck with watching 2 teams that FOX has decided you should watch, quite possibly 2 teams that you care absolutely zero about, so much for watching baseball on Saturday, might as well go pull some weeds.

This can be fixed and should be fixed.


Exactly, which is the point. MLB will fix it eventually.

Also, people keep saying the NFL comparison isn't valid but it absolutely is. I guess if your point is that baseball has 9 innings, a round ball, 162 games a year, and football has 4 quarters, a ball with pointed ends, and 16 games year it being apples to oranges would make sense.

When your comparing television broadcasting (I thought that's what this forum was about) it absolutely is valid.

Fox Saturday Baseball = Multiple games, with 1 game being broadcast locally. Other games unavailable with out-of-market package.
Fox NFL Sunday = Multiple games, with 1 game being broadcast locally. All other games available with out-of-market package.

Same advertising issues. Same network. Same local broadcasters. The NFL has it figured out. The MLB is still wrong due to their current deal. They will get it right.

I'm pretty much over discussing this because the only people who disagree are those who don't understand simple reasoning. They'll say "MLB knows what they are doing." "There's big money involved, they aren't stupid." etc. but when MLB changes it I guarantee we won't see any posts from any of them saying "I'm worried about MLB on local broadcasters because Saturday games are now on Extra Innings, they are really hurting" because it's not reality.

#626 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:16 PM

Exactly, which is the point. MLB will fix it eventually.

Also, people keep saying the NFL comparison isn't valid but it absolutely is. I guess if your point is that baseball has 9 innings, a round ball, 162 games a year, and football has 4 quarters, a ball with pointed ends, and 16 games year it being apples to oranges would make sense.

When your comparing television broadcasting (I thought that's what this forum was about) it absolutely is valid.

Fox Saturday Baseball = Multiple games, with 1 game being broadcast locally. Other games unavailable with out-of-market package.
Fox NFL Sunday = Multiple games, with 1 game being broadcast locally. All other games available with out-of-market package.

Same advertising issues. Same network. Same local broadcasters. The NFL has it figured out. The MLB is still wrong due to their current deal. They will get it right.

I'm pretty much over discussing this because the only people who disagree are those who don't understand simple reasoning. They'll say "MLB knows what they are doing." "There's big money involved, they aren't stupid." etc. but when MLB changes it I guarantee we won't see any posts from any of them saying "I'm worried about MLB on local broadcasters because Saturday games are now on Extra Innings, they are really hurting" because it's not reality.



No, it is apples and oranges because of the number of games available. If you miss one game out of 162, that is no where near missing one of 16.

Plus, the NFL is totally national contracts for TV. MLB is not. They are a mix of national and local broadcasts. That makes the cirumstances completely different.

The real thing is that it will NOT MAKE MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE if they get the Fox out of market games on TV somewhere. You are talking small amounts of money.

What says MLB is doing correctly is the total income they get. Denying the Tampa Bay Rays game from being on EI on a Saturday evening because they started their game at 6:30 has ZERO real impact on the MLB bottom line. They put it on, I say "great." They don't put it on, I say "oh well." It is not a big deal. Even to Rays fans in Arizona (not that there are many of them) but because it is about 0.6% of their games annually per Saturday.

Oh, and the NFL is limiting their access to those out of market games to DirecTV customers only. Maybe they haven't got it figured out yet. If EI carries the out of market Fox games, then it is to all carriers of EI, including all the cable companies in the nation....
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#627 OFFLINE   HGuardian

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:21 PM

No, it is apples and oranges because of the number of games available. If you miss one game out of 162, that is no where near missing one of 16.

Plus, the NFL is totally national contracts for TV. MLB is not. They are a mix of national and local broadcasts. That makes the cirumstances completely different.

The real thing is that it will NOT MAKE MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE if they get the Fox out of market games on TV somewhere. You are talking small amounts of money.

What says MLB is doing correctly is the total income they get. Denying the Tampa Bay Rays game from being on EI on a Saturday evening because they started their game at 6:30 has ZERO real impact on the MLB bottom line. They put it on, I say "great." They don't put it on, I say "oh well." It is not a big deal. Even to Rays fans in Arizona (not that there are many of them) but because it is about 0.6% of their games annually per Saturday.

Oh, and the NFL is limiting their access to those out of market games to DirecTV customers only. Maybe they haven't got it figured out yet. If EI carries the out of market Fox games, then it is to all carriers of EI, including all the cable companies in the nation....


Brick. Wall.

Please post when MLB changes this stupid policy (they will next TV deal, just watch) about how this move is horrible for MLB. I'll be waiting.

#628 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:10 PM

Brick. Wall.

Please post when MLB changes this stupid policy (they will next TV deal, just watch) about how this move is horrible for MLB. I'll be waiting.


You did not read what I said. I said it was inconsequential. And I will say so if and when it happens. It means little.

When you discuss something with someone, it is normal to actually respond to what they said. Not what you think you want to hear.
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#629 OFFLINE   HGuardian

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:42 PM

You did not read what I said. I said it was inconsequential. And I will say so if and when it happens. It means little.

When you discuss something with someone, it is normal to actually respond to what they said. Not what you think you want to hear.


Do you want a point by point rebuttal of this lame topic?

No, it is apples and oranges because of the number of games available. If you miss one game out of 162, that is no where near missing one of 16.


It depends on the person, the importance of a particular game to them, among other factors. If I was a family member to Philip Humber living in Texas who tried to catch every start of his with Extra Innings missed his perfect game because it was on Fox Saturday Baseball (which it was) it would mean a whole lot more to me.

It's also not just 1/162 because for my team (Detroit) they are on multiple times.

Plus, the NFL is totally national contracts for TV. MLB is not. They are a mix of national and local broadcasts. That makes the cirumstances completely different.


The specific Fox Saturday Baseball national contract has nothing to do with the individual Fox RSN contracts as far as I know.

The real thing is that it will NOT MAKE MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE if they get the Fox out of market games on TV somewhere. You are talking small amounts of money.


Exactly why those defending the policy, MLB, and Fox are completely wasting everyone's time. It will get changed because it's really inconsequential in the grand scheme of MLB and it ticks the hardcore baseball fan off.

What says MLB is doing correctly is the total income they get.


Are they?

If MLB changes the policy are they doing it incorrectly, or will you defend the previous contract as well as the new one?

Oh, and the NFL is limiting their access to those out of market games to DirecTV customers only. Maybe they haven't got it figured out yet.


Not anymore they aren't. http://us.playstation.com/psn/nfl/

This will just keep expanding and expanding. MLB isn't stupid they have MLB.TV. The quality and availability of streaming professional sports will only continue to improve.

#630 OFFLINE   davidatl14

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:07 PM

Do you want a point by point rebuttal of this lame topic?



It depends on the person, the importance of a particular game to them, among other factors. If I was a family member to Philip Humber living in Texas who tried to catch every start of his with Extra Innings missed his perfect game because it was on Fox Saturday Baseball (which it was) it would mean a whole lot more to me.

It's also not just 1/162 because for my team (Detroit) they are on multiple times.



The specific Fox Saturday Baseball national contract has nothing to do with the individual Fox RSN contracts as far as I know.



Exactly why those defending the policy, MLB, and Fox are completely wasting everyone's time. It will get changed because it's really inconsequential in the grand scheme of MLB and it ticks the hardcore baseball fan off.



Are they?

If MLB changes the policy are they doing it incorrectly, or will you defend the previous contract as well as the new one?



Not anymore they aren't. http://us.playstation.com/psn/nfl/

This will just keep expanding and expanding. MLB isn't stupid they have MLB.TV. The quality and availability of streaming professional sports will only continue to improve.


I'm not defending MLB, I've advocated changes above and have for several years, that said anyone thinking this is a similar product to NFLST needs to quit talking about it period.

Nothing even remotely similar about it

Edited by davidatl14, 01 June 2012 - 05:43 PM.

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#631 OFFLINE   HGuardian

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:14 PM

I'm not defending MLB, I've advocated changes above and have for several years, that said anyone thinking this is a similar product to NFLST needs to quit talking about period.

Nothing even remotely similar about it


Agreed. There is nothing remotely similar to 2 professional sports television packages targeting the hardcore and/or out-of-market sports fan that are both broadcast on Directv.

It's like comparing bean burritos to moon dust.

#632 OFFLINE   davidatl14

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:46 PM

Agreed. There is nothing remotely similar to 2 professional sports television packages targeting the hardcore and/or out-of-market sports fan that are both broadcast on Directv.

It's like comparing bean burritos to moon dust.


Sarcasm aside, the bean burritos and moon dust may have as much or more in common as the parameters of MLBEI and NFLST.:rolleyes:

Your insistence otherwise does nothing to change that.

I believe you said something earlier about brick and wall. Perfect analogy for your take on this.

As noted above Not defending MLB on this just pointing out as most sports media scribes have in the past the Comparison between the two packages are apples and oranges.

Get back to me when MLB teams play one game a week on Sunday afternoon with uniform start times of 1PM and 4PM and zero local broadcast(TV) partners.

Could MLB do more? Absolutely.

Will they in the next contract? More than likely.

Will it ever be the same setup as NFLST? Highly unlikely.

Edited by davidatl14, 01 June 2012 - 05:55 PM.

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#633 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:06 PM

Do you want a point by point rebuttal of this lame topic?

It depends on the person, the importance of a particular game to them, among other factors. If I was a family member to Philip Humber living in Texas who tried to catch every start of his with Extra Innings missed his perfect game because it was on Fox Saturday Baseball (which it was) it would mean a whole lot more to me.

It's also not just 1/162 because for my team (Detroit) they are on multiple times.

The specific Fox Saturday Baseball national contract has nothing to do with the individual Fox RSN contracts as far as I know.

Exactly why those defending the policy, MLB, and Fox are completely wasting everyone's time. It will get changed because it's really inconsequential in the grand scheme of MLB and it ticks the hardcore baseball fan off.

Are they?

If MLB changes the policy are they doing it incorrectly, or will you defend the previous contract as well as the new one?

Not anymore they aren't. http://us.playstation.com/psn/nfl/

This will just keep expanding and expanding. MLB isn't stupid they have MLB.TV. The quality and availability of streaming professional sports will only continue to improve.


Yawn.

1. Yes, everyone should change their contracts so Philip Humber's family can watch. You are proving how trivial it truly is.

2. Still a low percentage even if multiple games.

3. You still are not reading. I say it means nothing one way or the other. So you ask me if I will defend a different contract. I am not defending either. I am not outraged one way or the other. The truth is that your big argument means nothing because the blackout is nothing in the grand scheme of things. I'm saying it matters not if the games are offered or not. How is that a defense of one over the other?

4. I do not feel that I am entitled to see every game. You seem to think so.

5. The fox and fsn contracts are NOT linked. That is the issue. Local teams have local rights. That is why the nfl is different. There are no local rights for the nfl. All games are carried by national networks.

6. Battle the two games a week you don't see on fox on Saturday and ignore the lack of dodger OTA games and games that are just not broadcast like a game this week. The horror! What is wrong with MLB?

I laugh at you cause you are so worked up over NOTHING.

Oh. And watch the game on MLB.tv. You can't watch it live but you can an hour after it is over. What? Not good enough for you? Sorry.
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#634 OFFLINE   HGuardian

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:14 PM

I believe you said something earlier about brick and wall. Perfect analogy for your take on this.


The only comparison I've really made to NFL Sunday Ticket for this discussion is a very specific issue regarding Fox Saturday Baseball, which is really the only MLB programming set-up that can be compared to Fox NFL Sunday because the games are on OTA TV, and you are limited to seeing the game on your station.

I'm sure local stations didn't like Sunday Ticket from the get-go as it "takes away" views from their local advertisements. The NFL figured this out. (am I wrong? Isn't this the main reason for local "exclusivity" on the Fox baseball deal?)

Was I comparing specific writing and legalities in contracts? No.
Was I comparing the control of distribution of the packages? No.
Was I comparing online content? No.
Was I comparing the number of games in a season? No.
Was I comparing announcers? No.
Was I comparing square footage of the fields? No.

I brought it up for 1 reason, and I'll explain it again for the few people who need to be talked to like kindergarteners:

Both the NFL and MLB have television contracts to distribute games through local Fox affiliates. No?

Both the NFL and MLB limit you to 1 game per day/timeslot through your local Fox station. No?

When out-of-market games are available your local station loses eyes on local advertisers for both NFL and MLB games. No?

The NFL and Fox have come to an agreement to allow out-of-market games to be distributed through NFL Sunday Ticket. No?

MLB and Fox have not come to an agreement to allow out-of-market games to be distributed through MLB Extra Innings. No?


It's not that difficult really. That's the comparison. If any of my facts are wrong please let me know. I really get sick of reading the "OMG IT'S DIFFERENT THE BALL IS BROWN IN THE NFL" posts.

#635 OFFLINE   dvdmth

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:19 PM

Here's how I see the issue. FOX (or whoever gets the TV rights for these games in the future) will probably want compensation if their games are allowed on EI, because the affiliates will lose ad revenue due to there being fewer people watching the local station. This will drive up the cost of the package to the cable/sat providers who carry it. Problem is, only a few games are affected each week, so the providers will likely see very little change in their subscriber totals as a result of adding these games. So where's the incentive to add the games?

I'm not saying the situation won't change. All I'm saying is that it doesn't make economic sense to make the change. I will also note that NHL Center Ice does NOT carry NBC's regional hockey games either (though this only happens once a season, and the games are available nationally through nbcsports.com).

#636 OFFLINE   HGuardian

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:24 PM

1. Yes, everyone should change their contracts so Philip Humber's family can watch. You are proving how trivial it truly is.


TV itself is trivial. Why are you here?

4. I do not feel that I am entitled to see every game. You seem to think so.


I grew up getting to watch about 2 Tigers games a year, I think I'll survive.

I laugh at you cause you are so worked up over NOTHING.


Nah, I just get annoyed when people say they don't care about something and spend a portion of their day posting paragraphs about how they don't care. About as bad as the people posting comments on YouTube about how a certain kind of music they don't like sucks.

#637 OFFLINE   HGuardian

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:33 PM

Here's how I see the issue. FOX (or whoever gets the TV rights for these games in the future) will probably want compensation if their games are allowed on EI, because the affiliates will lose ad revenue due to there being fewer people watching the local station. This will drive up the cost of the package to the cable/sat providers who carry it. Problem is, only a few games are affected each week, so the providers will likely see very little change in their subscriber totals as a result of adding these games. So where's the incentive to add the games?

I'm not saying the situation won't change. All I'm saying is that it doesn't make economic sense to make the change. I will also note that NHL Center Ice does NOT carry NBC's regional hockey games either (though this only happens once a season, and the games are available nationally through nbcsports.com).


Nice reading a well-thought out and reasoned post in this thread for a change.

I really don't see it as that big of a deal to the local affiliates. Fox Saturday Baseball isn't nearly the size of Fox NFL Sunday. Since I'm positive there are more ST subscribers, more overlap and choices in the NFL, and more viewers overall, the advertising loss is much bigger for the NFL than it is the MLB.

I know I can't make this comparison because "they aren't even remotely the same" :lol: but if that deal could get made, we all know the MLB one could also.

#638 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:48 PM

TV itself is trivial. Why are you here?

I grew up getting to watch about 2 Tigers games a year, I think I'll survive.

Nah, I just get annoyed when people say they don't care about something and spend a portion of their day posting paragraphs about how they don't care. About as bad as the people posting comments on YouTube about how a certain kind of music they don't like sucks.


You are sad. Just because I don't care if they put the games on or not does not mean that I am not interested in a discussion of the topic. I am nether Mormon nor Jewish but I still like to understand the religions. If people only converse and try to understand things they care about, thy are sad, one dimensional individuals.

Meanwhile, as I kept telling you I didn't care if the games were on or not, you pet painting me as defending the current contract and to be eating my words if it changed. No way you posted those thoughts if you only cared about that I posted on something I didn't care about. LOL. sad, sad, sad. Can't even follow your own conversation.
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#639 OFFLINE   davidatl14

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:30 PM

The only comparison I've really made to NFL Sunday Ticket for this discussion is a very specific issue regarding Fox Saturday Baseball, which is really the only MLB programming set-up that can be compared to Fox NFL Sunday because the games are on OTA TV, and you are limited to seeing the game on your station.

I'm sure local stations didn't like Sunday Ticket from the get-go as it "takes away" views from their local advertisements. The NFL figured this out. (am I wrong? Isn't this the main reason for local "exclusivity" on the Fox baseball deal?)

Was I comparing specific writing and legalities in contracts? No.
Was I comparing the control of distribution of the packages? No.
Was I comparing online content? No.
Was I comparing the number of games in a season? No.
Was I comparing announcers? No.
Was I comparing square footage of the fields? No.

I brought it up for 1 reason, and I'll explain it again for the few people who need to be talked to like kindergarteners:

Both the NFL and MLB have television contracts to distribute games through local Fox affiliates. No?

Both the NFL and MLB limit you to 1 game per day/timeslot through your local Fox station. No?

When out-of-market games are available your local station loses eyes on local advertisers for both NFL and MLB games. No?

The NFL and Fox have come to an agreement to allow out-of-market games to be distributed through NFL Sunday Ticket. No?

MLB and Fox have not come to an agreement to allow out-of-market games to be distributed through MLB Extra Innings. No?


It's not that difficult really. That's the comparison. If any of my facts are wrong please let me know. I really get sick of reading the "OMG IT'S DIFFERENT THE BALL IS BROWN IN THE NFL" posts.




I haven't said "I don't care, I do.

I have been critical of how MLB handles this particular situation.

Just pointing out differences in the packages.


Your simpleton take, coupled with your own misguided delusions of being one of only a few with the supposed intellect that understands the problem is the only thing that gets repetitive.


My final words on this particular subject tonight.

Edited by davidatl14, 01 June 2012 - 07:36 PM.

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#640 OFFLINE   Jimmy 440

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:59 PM

The NY METS pitched their FIRST ever NO HITTER in franchise history.I hope you all got to see it tonight on EI ! Congrats Johan Santana

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