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MLB Extra innings 2012


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#701 OFFLINE   snappjay

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:22 AM

What device are you using to view the games?


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#702 OFFLINE   zimm7778

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:17 AM

Steal? No. I cannot steal if I am paying for it. I am not getting anything for free.

Cheat? Perhaps. Justifiable IMO. I am paying extra to watch any game. A few games are not shown live because of a contract signed between two different parties. If I want to watch my own team on my own teams feed while away from my home or outside away from the TV, what is the difference between using a Slingbox to watch it for free my iPad or the MLB APP with my paid subscription to watch the same thing on the same device? Why is using the MLB APP to get around the ridiculous blackout rules considered cheating while using the Sling APP is not?

Lie? Who am I hurting? If this is a lie it is not harming anyone, so why should it bother you?


Here's the difference. When you sign up for this service you do so agreeing to abide by the restrictions and rules in place. With a slingbox you are watching what you already paid for from your own TV. So, yes it is stealing from MLB based on their rules you agreed to when signing up.

#703 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:37 AM

Here's the difference. When you sign up for this service you do so agreeing to abide by the restrictions and rules in place. With a slingbox you are watching what you already paid for from your own TV. So, yes it is stealing from MLB based on their rules you agreed to when signing up.

Disagree. I cannot steal something that I am paying for and available too me.

The most I am doing is getting some games earlier than they allow me to do. If you want to call it stealing, fine. You can call it whatever you want. I really don't care. Stealing or not, I am paying for it.

In fact, I am helping them more than hurting them. Here is why:

  • They are getting money from me they normally wouldn't be getting - The only reason why I am paying for it is so I can watch my local team outside of my house and those occasional Fox games of my choice. If I wasn't able to spoof my iPad to allow me to do this, then I wouldn't purchase MLB.TV at all. Meaning, MLB would get less money.

  • I don't watch local advertisements anyway - The reason why they have the local blackout rules is so you have to have to watch your local broadcast with the local advertisements. If I was not able to watch it at home and did not have the ability to watch it on a spoofed device I would record it and skip through the commercials anyway. If I watch it live at home I flip to other programs during the commercials. Either way, I am not watching local commercials.

  • Not hurting anyone - Who am I hurting? If anything, by faking my location MLB is getting more money for me. I am indirectly helping them, not hurting them.

With all of that in consideration, I find it difficult to call it stealing.

#704 OFFLINE   AMike

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:18 AM

MLB has one of the most restrictive sports packages out there. Instead of embracing the idea of allowing fans to choose which game to watch during the Fox window, you are stuck with the game telecast in your area. That would be such a huge enhancement to the MLB packages. Imagine Sunday Ticket not showing any games in the 4 pm window. That is the equivalent of what you see with Fox's MLB exclusive window. You would think MLB would like to grow the game. Open that window up and allow us to have choice.

Now, I subscribe to MLB.tv, and I don't use a location spoofer or anything like that, but I am able to watch my home team feeds via AppleTV. However, since the play-by-play TV voice of the Braves is Chip Caray, I often find myself seeking out the opposing team's feed so I don't have to hear his inane call of a game.

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#705 OFFLINE   camo

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:51 AM

Speaking of bad play-by-play announcers the most god awful 5 year experience has finally ended. Darren Sutton the Dback play caller is gone. Yes, thank you who ever did this. He absolutely made watching the Dbacks the most miserable experience. TV ratings will surely go up now...

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#706 OFFLINE   zimm7778

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:29 AM

Disagree. I cannot steal something that I am paying for and available too me.

The most I am doing is getting some games earlier than they allow me to do. If you want to call it stealing, fine. You can call it whatever you want. I really don't care. Stealing or not, I am paying for it.

In fact, I am helping them more than hurting them. Here is why:


[*]They are getting money from me they normally wouldn't be getting - The only reason why I am paying for it is so I can watch my local team outside of my house and those occasional Fox games of my choice. If I wasn't able to spoof my iPad to allow me to do this, then I wouldn't purchase MLB.TV at all. Meaning, MLB would get less money.

[*]I don't watch local advertisements anyway - The reason why they have the local blackout rules is so you have to have to watch your local broadcast with the local advertisements. If I was not able to watch it at home and did not have the ability to watch it on a spoofed device I would record it and skip through the commercials anyway. If I watch it live at home I flip to other programs during the commercials. Either way, I am not watching local commercials.

[*]Not hurting anyone - Who am I hurting? If anything, by faking my location MLB is getting more money for me. I am indirectly helping them, not hurting them.

With all of that in consideration, I find it difficult to call it stealing.


If enough people did this you are reducing their ratings which is hurting the regional network that carries their games which in turn will lower their rights fees which in turn hurts your team. So yes, you ARE hurting someone. And again, you don't seem to understand that it doesn't matter what you pay for that you wouldn't otherwise, that's neither here nor there. Your $120 doesn't help your local team. When you signed up for the service you did so AGREEING TO ABIDE BY THEIR RULES. You aren't. So yes, you are cheating their system. And as far as this lying and who you are hurting? Again, it doesn't matter. Lying is lying regardless of who it hurts.

#707 OFFLINE   zimm7778

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:30 AM

MLB has one of the most restrictive sports packages out there. Instead of embracing the idea of allowing fans to choose which game to watch during the Fox window, you are stuck with the game telecast in your area. That would be such a huge enhancement to the MLB packages. Imagine Sunday Ticket not showing any games in the 4 pm window. That is the equivalent of what you see with Fox's MLB exclusive window. You would think MLB would like to grow the game. Open that window up and allow us to have choice.

Now, I subscribe to MLB.tv, and I don't use a location spoofer or anything like that, but I am able to watch my home team feeds via AppleTV. However, since the play-by-play TV voice of the Braves is Chip Caray, I often find myself seeking out the opposing team's feed so I don't have to hear his inane call of a game.


6 games a week out of how many? No, it isn't the same thing as annoying as it is. Further, if NFL ST blocked out all 4pm games you would know this or have the option to know if by reading the disclaimers prior to ordering and can make a decision based on that info.

#708 OFFLINE   MikeW

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:21 PM

Speaking of bad play-by-play announcers the most god awful 5 year experience has finally ended. Darren Sutton the Dback play caller is gone. Yes, thank you who ever did this. He absolutely made watching the Dbacks the most miserable experience. TV ratings will surely go up now...


While I hope Daron is off to greener pastures, I haven't heard anything official yet. As of 11:15, KTAR says there is nothing new to report. Have you heard something official from another source?

#709 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:23 PM

If enough people did this you are reducing their ratings which is hurting the regional network that carries their games which in turn will lower their rights fees which in turn hurts your team. So yes, you ARE hurting someone. And again, you don't seem to understand that it doesn't matter what you pay for that you wouldn't otherwise, that's neither here nor there. Your $120 doesn't help your local team. When you signed up for the service you did so AGREEING TO ABIDE BY THEIR RULES. You aren't. So yes, you are cheating their system. And as far as this lying and who you are hurting? Again, it doesn't matter. Lying is lying regardless of who it hurts.


Lying is sometimes necessary. There are circumstances where the truth to someone is more harmful than a lie. But that is a different issue

Let me accept your point just for argument sake. The same point can be made for DVRs. If enough people record shows on their DVRs they too will be missing out on local advertisement which in turn hurts the programming. One can say recording programming and skipping through commercials is also cheating and stealing, as you are avoiding the very thing that pays for that program to air.

One way to avoid this whole mess is to allow local broadcast through MLB.TV with their local commercials. They do it for EI. This way you can still watch your local team away from your TV while still in your local area.

It is us viewers that are the victims of these ridiculous black out rules and exclusive contracts. Why should we suffer because FOX pays more to prevent others from broadcasting during their window?

#710 OFFLINE   zimm7778

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:49 PM

Lying is sometimes necessary. There are circumstances where the truth to someone is more harmful than a lie. But that is a different issue

Let me accept your point just for argument sake. The same point can be made for DVRs. If enough people record shows on their DVRs they too will be missing out on local advertisement which in turn hurts the programming. One can say recording programming and skipping through commercials is also cheating and stealing, as you are avoiding the very thing that pays for that program to air.

One way to avoid this whole mess is to allow local broadcast through MLB.TV with their local commercials. They do it for EI. This way you can still watch your local team away from your TV while still in your local area.

It is us viewers that are the victims of these ridiculous black out rules and exclusive contracts. Why should we suffer because FOX pays more to prevent others from broadcasting during their window?


You can't do that because everyone lives in different places within the state and what about local advertising or what the satellites offer during that time? I live in Tampa, do I need to see ads for Mike Shad Ford and First Baptist in Jacksonville? Likewise do they want to see ads for Stadium Toyota and the local ambulance chasers? No. I realize you see these ads on MLB EI, but now you are talking about watching your local team in the local market where you have access to it on the TV. Your DVR example doesn't work. A.) Again, it's what you already pay for, everyone dealing in TV understands this, and you have an agreement on the equipment that it can be used as such unlike watching your local team on MLB.TV. This part seems totally lost on you. You AGREE to the terms and conditions of said products when you sign up for the service, period. and B.) Ratings still count on next day views on DVRs which is a far better system then when people used VCRs.

#711 OFFLINE   nybill38

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 05:27 PM

Speaking of bad play-by-play announcers the most god awful 5 year experience has finally ended. Darren Sutton the Dback play caller is gone. Yes, thank you who ever did this. He absolutely made watching the Dbacks the most miserable experience. TV ratings will surely go up now...



AMEN to that!!!! Shulte is so much better

#712 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:35 PM

You can't do that because everyone lives in different places within the state and what about local advertising or what the satellites offer during that time? I live in Tampa, do I need to see ads for Mike Shad Ford and First Baptist in Jacksonville? Likewise do they want to see ads for Stadium Toyota and the local ambulance chasers? No. I realize you see these ads on MLB EI, but now you are talking about watching your local team in the local market where you have access to it on the TV. Your DVR example doesn't work.

It is not that difficult. You simply show the complete team feed along with the advertisements. In doing so you still allow the local feed for you local team and only black out the visiting teams feed. Ratings can be tabulated on both online viewing and TV provider viewing.

As far as the DVRs go. My point was that ratings serve no relevance to advertisers if people ff through the commercials, or watch a game later through and archived feed on MLB.TV or their DVR. Both the archived feed through MLB.TV and the DVR recorded game are allowed and neither is a violation of the rules. By playing in the rules I can still affect the ratings by not recording the game and watching the legal archived feed instead.

A.) Again, it's what you already pay for, everyone dealing in TV understands this, and you have an agreement on the equipment that it can be used as such unlike watching your local team on MLB.TV. This part seems totally lost on you. You AGREE to the terms and conditions of said products when you sign up for the service, period.

You've made this point already. It is not lost on me. What you seem to not understand is, I DON'T CARE if it is violating the agreement. In fact, I want to intentionally violate the agreement and hope everyone does in order to change the blackout rules.

The agreement is because FOX wants to keep a 3 hour exclusive window. I think the FOX deal is ridiculous and by going around it, it is a form of protest. I hope everyone does it. It hurts their ratings and FOX will realize this is a stupid thing for them to do. Or FOX may come to the understanding that their ratings may improve if they give people choices instead of forcing them to watch a game that THEY think is regional.

This is an example where I think breaking the rules is the right thing to do. History is full of people breaking rules to change unjust laws, ridiculous regulations, or lame contracts.

For local feeds it is as simple as showing the entire feed of all games including local advertisements. The same as you would get if you are watching on your local station. This way you can watch your local feed in your local area, live, when you are not near your TV. This will help the ratings as live games cannot be FF'd through commercials, and when you log in they know exactly what your are watching and for how long (IOW, they can add the online viewership as part of the total ratings). It will be better for ratings if people were allowed to watch their live local feed online through MLB.TV with advertisements than for them to watch an archived game or a recorded game FFing through commercials.

If enough people violate this rule as well and they see that many people are watching it online, this too may get them to think about how they broadcast the games.

and B.) Ratings still count on next day views on DVRs which is a far better system then when people used VCRs.

It is not better for advertisers if you are able to watch a live game with commercials through MLB.TV than a recorded game on your DVR FFing through commercials.

And again, if you can watch an archived local game on MLB.TV instead of recording it on your DVR, this hurts the ratings and MLB allows for this to happen. So what is the difference if I watch it live by breaking the rules or archived by not breaking the rules? Either way local ratings are not counted.

Would it not be better if they allowed a true live feed of the local broadcast with commercials?

#713 OFFLINE   zimm7778

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:50 PM

They won't change their rules. They'll develop the software to catch people like you and ban you from the service or if it affects their teams and networks (the ones that pay big money to televise said game, your $125 doesn't compare to it) enough to make a difference they'll discontinue it altogether. So, keep on going against the agreement and when it happens remember this conversation.

Your history lesson is also not relevant. You paid for something knowingly then intentionally broke rules to prove a point. That doesn't make you some sort of heroic figure "fighting the good fight." Not seeing a home market regional game or Fox broadcast games not available in your area is not like fighting for racial equality or anything.

#714 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:36 PM

Perhaps. Perhaps not. If they see there is more money in allowing people more viewing options, then it will change accordingly.

Times are changing. TV is no longer the age of the whole family sitting down and watching live programming along with the commercials. Viewing options are changing and advertisers are changing accordingly.

We can argue that I am lying, cheating, stealing, or whatever. You think I am; I think I am not, and neither one of us is going to convince the other. So lets focus on some of the points made instead

Changing how games are broadcast

They can simply add the commercials like they do with EI and add the MLB.TV viewers to the ratings as well. After all, is it not better to be able to watch your local game on a secondary device through MLB.TV instead of not watching it at all?

For example. While cooking dinner just now I turned on the Angel game on my iPad through the MLB.TV APP. This allowed me to watch the Angel game in my kitchen while cooking dinner. I do not have a TV in my kitchen. If I did not JB my iPad I would not have been able to watch the game at all. Either way, FSN West is not getting my viewership. If MLB.TV allowed me to watch the local feed and included the commercials, they could then count my viewing towards their ratings.

More and more people are using other devices to watch programming, it is just a matter of time before MLB catches up.

Does it really hurt ratings?


Many things hurt ratings or advertising, DVRs, online viewing, ect. just to name a few. Yes, watching a local game through MLB.TV instead of my local RSN will not count on the ratings.

Other sports do not have the ridiculous blackout rules and allow many of the things MLB doesn't allow. As a result it helps the ratings of these other sports.

MLB always seems to be behind the other sports when it comes changing the way things are done. For the longest time most teams would not televise home games as they thought it would hurt attendance. Boy were they wrong. Watching what other sports were doing and finally realizing that giving people more options actually helped ratings. As more games started to become televised, attendance actually increased on the average. By allowing people to see it on TV it was a form of promoting for the local team. TV broadcast started to attracted more to the game as a whole, thus attendance increased. Not only that, TV viewership increased and so did the revenue from TV viewership. Now I just wish they would realize the same thing with online viewing.

One would think arguing the points you are arguing, that sports packages in general would hurt ratings. After all, simply watching an out of market game instead of your own team hurts the ratings of your local team, wouldn't you think? Yet, that is allowed. But yet, by allowing more people to watch out of market games, it attracts viewers from other parts of the country, thus increasing the total number of viewers to the game.

Most importantly. I do it because I want to, not because I think I am some sort of hero. My point was to counter the point you made about what would happen if everyone did what I did. I argued that if everyone did it, MLB would be forced to open it up more because they would see that this is what people want and will be able to get more money from them. So by everyone breaking a rule, it may make the situation better; similar to other breaking other rules to change other situation. (IOW, just because the rule exist, does not make it just. Just because one breaks it does not make them wrong. I was not putting myself in the likes of Rosa Parks. It was simply to show that rules are sometimes meant to be broken, no matter how minor. Yes, this is minor.) And I argued that if everyone did it, it will help rating, not hurt them. It does not hurt ratings anymore than a DVR (which now allows people to watch programs they normally would never watch or programs that occur at the same time) or out of market viewing (which allows people to watch their favorite team they normally would not be able to watch, thus increasing the total number of viewers for that favorite team.)

If I did not do it, I would not pay for it. They would not get my money. I would end up watching fewer games. It is that simple

Summarizing, giving more people more choices increases overall viewership of MLB as a whole, thus ratings. It was shown to be true on the past and it was shown to be true in other sports. Eventually MLB will realize this and change some of their ridiculous restrictions.

Edited by DodgerKing, 26 June 2012 - 07:54 PM.


#715 OFFLINE   davidatl14

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:02 PM

Not going to be drawn in on the definition of What the meaning of Is is?:lol:

That said anyone thinking these blackouts are going away anytime soon is likely going to be disappointed.

As long as the Monies continue climbing from the Various RSN's for the rights to broadcast said team's game.


MLBAM is in a basic partnership with these RSN behemoths.

What benefits the RSN's in the long run and makes them happy is catered to by TPTB in MLB.

One of the examples that always gets used are some parts of Nevada being subject to 5-6 teams being blacked out.

What interests both the RSN and MLB is getting the Local Cable companies to pick up that particular RSN as a daily full time channel. Much much more money to be made that way with Sub rates than individuals buying the MLBEI or MLBTV package.

IE: CSN Bay Area stands to make bucket loads more money if they can get Cable System XYZ in Clark County Nevada to pick up their RSN on a full time basis than they ever will on individuals purchasing MLBTV or MLBEI.
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#716 OFFLINE   loudo

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:09 PM

DirecTV should drop EI and create an App for MLB-TV. MLB-TV has so much better features.

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#717 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:33 PM

DirecTV should drop EI and create an App for MLB-TV. MLB-TV has so much better features.


but EI on Directv is mostly just RSN remaps. So directv does need to try that hard to have it.
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#718 OFFLINE   camo

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:22 AM

While I hope Daron is off to greener pastures, I haven't heard anything official yet. As of 11:15, KTAR says there is nothing new to report. Have you heard something official from another source?

Looks like it was for "insubordination'' after determining that he had failed to comply with a number of management directives over the years, a baseball source told ESPN.com. I just hope it's permanent, I like Greg Shulte doing the games.

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#719 OFFLINE   bigwad

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:40 AM

DirecTV should drop EI and create an App for MLB-TV. MLB-TV has so much better features.


MLB.tv has it's own issues. It works fine on a laptop, but on Roku and Panasonic tv's they kinda suck. Takes too much effort and time to switch between games and does not have the same FF, Rew, etc., as on the laptop. And I have no problem with Netflix or any other streaming except for MLB.tv. It buffers all the time, irritating!

I'm going back to MLBEI next year!

#720 OFFLINE   loudo

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:44 AM

but EI on Directv is mostly just RSN remaps. So directv does need to try that hard to have it.

I was referring to the difference in price structure between the two. Plus the features, things like viewing archived games and game stats, are better with MLB-TV.

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