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#76 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:26 PM

YES you are missing the point. Yes you can pay $12.99 for Sports Pack to get out of market RSNs. But you do not get the most of the content of these RSNs as MOST of the professional and some college sports Directv only has the right to show the content in the area of the channel - the area Directv has rights to show it in.

The difference with the Pac 12 channels is that Directv will have the right to show it nationwide. If the channel is already on the system there is little or no additional cost to Directv to show that channel to everyone on it's system. If the price per subscriber is small enough (10 cents?) outside the footprint Directv will show it. WHY? Because they WILL gain subscribers from it. The UW fan in NYC, the Stanford fan in Boston, etc.

Now if they only stick the channel in the local DMA as you suggest then they cannot show that channel to everyone else in the Pac 12 footprint if they want it. Putting it in the local DMA is not a realistic option. A Pac 12 fan in Phoenix might want all Pac 12 channels for example. That's just not practical for the Pac 12 network and it won't happen. If they are in the local DMA none of these channels could even be in the sports pack since that would be nationwide.

The bandwidth issue is always an issue. That's an issue for Directv and always will be. No matter how much bandwidth you have you will always need more. Directv can take it away from the PPV movies, not show every home and away channel on the MLB, NBA, NHL packages, etc. That's a choice that will need to be made by someone in Directv.

Pac-12 is only going to put their channels on Directv if it benefits them. If they get pushed only to Sportspack for everyone or most channels you will not see the channels here. The other side to that is Directv looses lots of customers in the Pac-12 footprint because the cable packages are already signed on - to carry the Pac 12 national channel and the local channel in the footprint - and in a sports tier the other channels (or so we're told). So if the cable companies have the channels and satellite does not, then where are we? Satellite can't compete then.

Pac-12 knows that a national distribution contract benefits them so they want to be able to push the games everywhere. Cable cos in NJ, NY DC, etc. won't carry the Pac 12 and especially won't carry all the local regionals. So pushing for viewership, Pac 12 says to Directv, take the channels you aready have and make them go national with every one of them and we'll charge you next to nothing for people outside of the Pac 12 footprint. How can Directv say no to that - because even if they pick up one customer who wouldn't normally have Directv - then Directv benefits. The bandwidth is already used up.

So what's the limitation? The total bandwidth available. You say there is not enough to accomodate everyone. I don't know if that is true or not. If it is, then that's an issue to work out. It's also leverage for Directv to use with other channels to keep prices down - could say hey Oprah channel, we have a limit on the amount of bandwidth and you want X and we say we'll pay Y - and thats it. We don't have bandwidth for all, so either sign on at X or we're done and if we're done we don't know if you will ever get access again. That's a business decision they'd have to make.

So restricted bandwidth can benefit Directv in more ways than one.

I would be shocked - completely shocked if the Pac 12 ends up in sports pack. It makes so sense to the Pac 12 to even put the channels on Directv should that be the case.

It comes down to who has the real leverage here? Key to all of this negotiation was getting every major cable company on board before launch. How in the world Larry Scott did that I do not know, but he did. Now that he did that upped the ante for Directv and the others to carry the channel. The man is brilliant.

We'll just have to see....but I will bet you a beer that they will either be all on or not at all. If there is a real bandwidth problem the only accomodation I could see Pac 12 making is temporarily allowing some SD content for the regionals with all major sports events being in HD. We'll have to see....:D:)


I know about the rights to the games and that dtv would not need to black any of them out. The only thing that would do is make the channel more expensive, not less, making it even more likely for the regionals, if picked up, to be put into the sports pack to offset the costs for them.

And you are also completely wrong on saying there is no cost to showing the channel nationally if they carry it locally and they have the rights. There is absolutely a massive cost. The pricing for channels is based on how many people can receiver the channel. Far fewer people have the sports pack, so they'd have to pay far far less for a channel in the sports pack than if they have it available in a more national package. The only way around that is if the PAC 12 offers the channels to DirecTV for free if they pay for the national channel, or something of that nature. Not reduced, but free. ( dtv just moved some channels to a higher teir because of costs this month. ) Let me know when a channel offers their programing for free to anyone. Yes they could cut a deal that changes how much is charged for the channel in different dmas and such, but it'd still cost far less in the sports pack unless they significantly undercut the fees they will get locally in comparison to what they will be getting from a local cable company, and that's something that I don't see happening because it'd open a giant can of worms.

If all the major games can be seen on the national channel, then thats the channel that will be viewed the most nationally. The other channels will have much smaller views hip outside the region in which they are meant for. They will have eyes, but so many fewer than what the national network will have.

Did you even read the link to the post above yours? Where it specifically states Comcast may put the channels in the sports pack, and is only guaranteed to carry one of the channels in each market, either the national feed or the local, but have the option to carry both? (read, they can carry both if they want to pay more)

And that all major sports games that aren't on espn or fox will be on both the regional channels and the national channels so everyone will be able to see them no matter which channels a carrier decides to pickup will have that game. ( those games being football and basketball)

Look, I see your point in why it would be beneficial to have all nationwide, but you seem to think the bandwidth question isn't really going to have an impact other than they can negotiate a better deal. That's just false. At this time, I don't see any way for DirecTV to dedicate any more than one channel nationally for the pac12.

These channels will cost, no matter how you slice it. Saying they will carry them all nationally because the PAC 12 doesn't want any of them in a sports pack is also a falsify, based in what Larry just said recently.

A PAC 12 fan can want all the channels as much as they want, but if DirecTV doesn't have the bandwidth to have them all everywhere right now, then they will have to deal with whatever channels they do carry. One or two channels is better than none. Please, tell me how that's not true? And we are talking no matter what about having more games and programing on tv than ever before, so no matter what the consumer is gaining over what the have today. If DirecTV picks up just the national channel, they will have far more pac12 sports available nationally than ever before.

Again, the bandwidth issue will go away for these channels in two years. I don't think that DirecTV will want to wait till then to carry any of the pack 12 channels.

For those wondering, the whole discussion in this started because we where wondering if this channel will show up in this new package. I don't expect it in the entertainment package. I expect the PAC 12 channel national version to end up in the same teir as the NBC sports channel, and eventually the regional channels available to everyone outside the PAC 12 markets in the sports pack. That would be the extra package and above I do believe. That what makes the most economic sense for everyone IMHO. And let's everyone see more games the PAC 12 plays than ever before.

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#77 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:00 AM

Did you even read the link to the post above yours? Where it specifically states Comcast may put the channels in the sports pack, and is only guaranteed to carry one of the channels in each market, either the national feed or the local, but have the option to carry both? (read, they can carry both if they want to pay more)


**may**

until everything comes together we really don't know for sure what any provider is doing, frankly. I can also show you articles that says something else. So here we are.

#78 OFFLINE   FenixTX

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:20 PM

Sorry to high jack this thread about PAC-12 networks but I just read where they will be wanting 90 cents a subscriber. They are out of their minds. I hope DirecTV doesn't give in and give them that kind of money. I have had it with how much sports programming is jacking up our monthly rates.
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#79 OFFLINE   jdspencer

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:46 PM

So the PAC-12 wants DirecTV to pay them for the privilege of carrying their games.
I think DirecTV should also ask the PAC-12 to pay for the privilege of providing an outlet for their games.
This goes for almost every channel out there.
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#80 OFFLINE   FenixTX

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 02:47 PM

So the PAC-12 wants DirecTV to pay them for the privilege of carrying their games.
I think DirecTV should also ask the PAC-12 to pay for the privilege of providing an outlet for their games.
This goes for almost every channel out there.


It's just annoying. I don't know who the PAC-12 thinks they are. They aren't the SEC or Big Ten. At 90 cents a subscriber they would be getting almost as much as TNT gets and more than Disney, TBS, USA and ESPN2. Uh, what? They are out of their minds and if any cable or satellite company gives them that much it makes me sick. The Big Ten Network only gets around 40 cents a subscriber. Enough with all this crap. Tired of it. :)
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#81 OFFLINE   David Ortiz

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 03:02 PM

It's just annoying. I don't know who the PAC-12 thinks they are. They aren't the SEC or Big Ten. At 90 cents a subscriber they would be getting almost as much as TNT gets and more than Disney, TBS, USA and ESPN2. Uh, what? They are out of their minds and if any cable or satellite company gives them that much it makes me sick. The Big Ten Network only gets around 40 cents a subscriber. Enough with all this crap. Tired of it. :)


Link? Googling shows that B1G is also getting 90 cents per subscriber in market.

#82 OFFLINE   FenixTX

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 03:08 PM

Link? Googling shows that B1G is also getting 90 cents per subscriber in market.


The only thing I could find with a list is this website:
http://consumerist.c...s-you-hate.html

If the Big Ten is getting that much that makes me sick, too. Although, I do believe the Big Ten Network deserves much more money than the Pac-12 Network does. The B1G is much more popular as a conference than the Pac-12.
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#83 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 03:11 PM

It's just annoying. I don't know who the PAC-12 thinks they are. They aren't the SEC or Big Ten. At 90 cents a subscriber they would be getting almost as much as TNT gets and more than Disney, TBS, USA and ESPN2. Uh, what? They are out of their minds and if any cable or satellite company gives them that much it makes me sick. The Big Ten Network only gets around 40 cents a subscriber. Enough with all this crap. Tired of it. :)


You don't know who the Pac-12 thinks they are? Pac-12 controls

#2 - Los Angeles
#6 - Bay Area
#13 - Seattle
#14 - Phoenix
#18 - Denver
#23 - Portland
#36 - Salt Lake

Plus realistically #28 - San Diego, #40 - Las Vegas

What does SEC control? Really #9 - Atlanta, #29 - Nashville, #39 - Birmingham, #49 Knoxville. #52 - New Orleans, etc.

It's all about viewers and dollars. This past BCS championship ratings were the worst ever nationwide. While the SEC may play decent football, most of America really doesn't care. I know that's hard to accept, but the reality.

#84 OFFLINE   FenixTX

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 03:23 PM

You don't know who the Pac-12 thinks they are? Pac-12 controls

#2 - Los Angeles
#6 - Bay Area
#13 - Seattle
#14 - Phoenix
#18 - Denver
#23 - Portland
#36 - Salt Lake

Plus realistically #28 - San Diego, #40 - Las Vegas

What does SEC control? Really #9 - Atlanta, #29 - Nashville, #39 - Birmingham, #49 Knoxville. #52 - New Orleans, etc.

It's all about viewers and dollars. This past BCS championship ratings were the worst ever nationwide. While the SEC may play decent football, most of America really doesn't care. I know that's hard to accept, but the reality.


Bwaaa haaa haaaa. You are crazy. Most of the country doesn't watch the PAC-12. The SEC is king. The SEC has to get way better ratings than any PAC-12 game. But that's not the point. I'm just annoyed with how much these sports channels are getting. And what scares me the most is how much the Big Ten and SEC are going to get in a few years when their TV contracts are up for renewal. It's going to blow past how much the PAC-12 is getting now and that is very scary. Our tv bills are going to sky rocket come then. :(
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#85 OFFLINE   zimm7778

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 04:46 PM

You don't know who the Pac-12 thinks they are? Pac-12 controls

#2 - Los Angeles
#6 - Bay Area
#13 - Seattle
#14 - Phoenix
#18 - Denver
#23 - Portland
#36 - Salt Lake

Plus realistically #28 - San Diego, #40 - Las Vegas

What does SEC control? Really #9 - Atlanta, #29 - Nashville, #39 - Birmingham, #49 Knoxville. #52 - New Orleans, etc.

It's all about viewers and dollars. This past BCS championship ratings were the worst ever nationwide. While the SEC may play decent football, most of America really doesn't care. I know that's hard to accept, but the reality.


Yeah that's why CBS has an exclusive an agreement to carry only their games nationally on their broadcast network.....because no one cares about them. I love conference homers. That goes for SEC, PAC-10, Big 10, Big 12, Conference USA, etc. The nation as a whole doesn't care about any one conference. The nation should not be subject to any conference sports network in a basic programming package for the very reason they are of regional interest.

#86 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:08 PM

Sorry to high jack this thread about PAC-12 networks but I just read where they will be wanting 90 cents a subscriber. They are out of their minds. I hope DirecTV doesn't give in and give them that kind of money. I have had it with how much sports programming is jacking up our monthly rates.


Where did you read that? I'd like to see it. Was the 90 for all channels? If so, thats actually pretty cheap, but is also why I think that other than maybe the national and maybe locals into the local markets, these will end up in the sports pack if they get picked up.

#87 OFFLINE   FenixTX

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:15 PM

Where did you read that? I'd like to see it. Was the 90 for all channels? If so, thats actually pretty cheap, but is also why I think that other than maybe the national and maybe locals into the local markets, these will end up in the sports pack if they get picked up.


Believe 90 cents just for the main feed. It was a tweet from a PAC-12 reporter out west. I will try to find the tweet again.
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#88 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:42 PM

Bwaaa haaa haaaa. You are crazy. Most of the country doesn't watch the PAC-12. The SEC is king. The SEC has to get way better ratings than any PAC-12 game. But that's not the point. I'm just annoyed with how much these sports channels are getting. And what scares me the most is how much the Big Ten and SEC are going to get in a few years when their TV contracts are up for renewal. It's going to blow past how much the PAC-12 is getting now and that is very scary. Our tv bills are going to sky rocket come then. :(


Call it what you want. Media markets control.

By the time the SEC is looking to start its channel there won't be any space left on the satellites or cable systems. Pac 12 and Big 10 will have that all locked up. No one will have any money left.

#89 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:44 PM

Yeah that's why CBS has an exclusive an agreement to carry only their games nationally on their broadcast network.....because no one cares about them. I love conference homers. That goes for SEC, PAC-10, Big 10, Big 12, Conference USA, etc. The nation as a whole doesn't care about any one conference. The nation should not be subject to any conference sports network in a basic programming package for the very reason they are of regional interest.


I wish all sports was a on a sports tier myself.

Excuse me on national coverage. It's not uncommon out west that some of the games don't hit the local channels. They show infomercials instead sometimes....it's gotten better, but we don't always get those games on CBS.

#90 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:46 PM

Call it what you want. Media markets control.

By the time the SEC is looking to start its channel there won't be any space left on the satellites or cable systems..


SEC Network already has a channel of sorts. Usually picked up by local affiliates and cable systems on a per game basis. Dont see it on any of the satellite companies, but watch it on FTA satellite every weekend during college football season. Hopefully they will have baseball on it this spring...and I see they will: http://rickcaylor.we...363&postcount=2

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#91 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:49 PM

Call it what you want. Media markets control.

By the time the SEC is looking to start its channel there won't be any space left on the satellites or cable systems. Pac 12 and Big 10 will have that all locked up. No one will have any money left.


:lol: I guess you didn't know...

The 2009 season marks the beginning of a new 15-year, $2.25 billion contract with ESPN, which coincides with a 15-year, $825 million deal with CBS.

Read more: http://sportsillustr...l#ixzz1mbF57ul5
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#92 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 08:58 PM

SEC Network already has a channel of sorts. Usually picked up by local affiliates and cable systems on a per game basis. Dont see it on any of the satellite companies, but watch it on FTA satellite every weekend during college football season. Hopefully they will have baseball on it this spring...and I see they will: http://rickcaylor.we...363&postcount=2


CSS a other comcast cable only channel.
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#93 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:00 PM

CSS a other comcast cable only channel.


I know, that is why I watch the feed on FTA.

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#94 OFFLINE   ms1960

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:35 PM

What satellite is CSS on FFA?

#95 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:56 PM

What satellite is CSS on FFA?


It changes each week/game between a couple of them, but has been on 72W, 79W, or 85W (AMC 6, 9 , 16). Usually once you find the two or three they use, you can just check the same 3. At least last year, they didnt change the SR or Freq very often. Havent watched baseball yet, so time till tell if I can find it, if its scrambled, or fed via fiber.

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#96 OFFLINE   Devo1237

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:08 PM

Bwaaa haaa haaaa. You are crazy. Most of the country doesn't watch the PAC-12. The SEC is king. The SEC has to get way better ratings than any PAC-12 game.


Yeah, the SEC rules about 15 days a year (football saturdays in the fall). Meanwhile the PAC-12 consistently wins championships in a bunch of sports. Makes for a pretty compelling full-time channel to the people in the west, which includes A LOT of big markets listed above, as well as alumni and fans nationwide. Not sure why you keep bringing up the Big-10. They aren't even comparable to the SEC in football or the Pac-12 in the rest of the sports, but I'm guessing your Nebraska avatar has something to do with it.

http://fs.ncaa.org/D...es/combined.pdf

Most D1 Championships - notice the drop off after #3
1. UCLA -- 108
2. Stanford -- 102
3. USC -- 94
4. Oklahoma St. -- 50
5. LSU -- 42

#97 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:27 PM

Yeah, the SEC rules about 15 days a year (football saturdays in the fall). Meanwhile the PAC-12 consistently wins championships in a bunch of sports. Makes for a pretty compelling full-time channel to the people in the west, which includes A LOT of big markets listed above, as well as alumni and fans nationwide. Not sure why you keep bringing up the Big-10. They aren't even comparable to the SEC in football or the Pac-12 in the rest of the sports, but I'm guessing your Nebraska avatar has something to do with it.

http://fs.ncaa.org/D...es/combined.pdf

Most D1 Championships - notice the drop off after #3
1. UCLA -- 108
2. Stanford -- 102
3. USC -- 94
4. Oklahoma St. -- 50
5. LSU -- 42

Most of those championships are in sports no one watches or cares about like swimming, water polo, tennis, golf, etc. For example, 33 of Stanford's 102 championships are men's & women tennis with another 16 in Swimming & diving. For UCLA, 55 of 108 are in swimming, water polo, & tennis.
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#98 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:35 PM

It changes each week/game between a couple of them, but has been on 72W, 79W, or 85W (AMC 6, 9 , 16). Usually once you find the two or three they use, you can just check the same 3. At least last year, they didnt change the SR or Freq very often. Havent watched baseball yet, so time till tell if I can find it, if its scrambled, or fed via fiber.

Is that FTA HD?

Also what CSS Houston or the other one?
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#99 OFFLINE   Devo1237

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:31 AM

Most of those championships are in sports no one watches or cares about like swimming, water polo, tennis, golf, etc. For example, 33 of Stanford's 102 championships are men's & women tennis with another 16 in Swimming & diving. For UCLA, 55 of 108 are in swimming, water polo, & tennis.


First of all, some people do care about those sports. Especially, when their local schools are playing, which the PAC-12 schools often are.

Second, Stanford and UCLA STILL have more championships than any non-PAC-12 schools without the sports you deem unworthy. So... what's your point? You think LSU won 42 football titles?

#100 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:58 AM

:lol: I guess you didn't know...


Read more: http://sportsillustr...l#ixzz1mbF57ul5


Oh I knew. But you didn't read what I wrote:

"By the time the SEC is looking to start its channel there won't be any space left on the satellites or cable systems. Pac 12 and Big 10 will have that all locked up. No one will have any money left."

Big difference in what I said with what you commented about. SEC won't be starting any channel anytime soon.




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