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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Preparing for new installation


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16 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   ecf

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:18 PM

I'm getting ready to switch TV away from Comcast and have the installer coming out later today. I want to get as much prep done in advance so he can get done quicker and had a couple of clarifications and questions I wanted to put out there.

Background:
- We're getting an HR34 and an H2x, obviously with HD and whole home dvr.
- We had Directv several years ago. Dish was removed 2 years ago when we got roof redone, and I just removed the old cables and grounding block. Cables had connectors cut off and were exposed to rain, so I figured new cable would be better.
- There are 2 RG6 going from side of house to the structured wiring cabinet inside. One of these will continue to be used for Comcast internet.
- Old dish was mounted on back corner of roof (south facing, no LOS obstructions) about 40' from where coax enters house and I would assume new dish would go same place.
- Electric meter/ground is right next to where coax enters house. Ground is currently going to existing Comcast grounding block.
- Structured wiring cabinet is about 25' from where coax enters house and also contains my Comcast modem, wireless router, switch and new voip ATA. There is also power available.
- All coax/ethernet are home runs to the wiring cabinet.
- The two coax cables come into another grounding block that is grounded to electrical ground. Unfortunately the crappy builder just used crimp connectors rather than compression.
- Since we'll only need two boxes for now, I just want to leave remaining coax runs unconnected.
- Both locations where the boxes are going have both rg6 and cat5e.

Here's how I would assume the installation would be, correct me if I'm wrong:

- Dish with SWM lnb on roof with single cable (with ground wire) going back to grounding block where coax enters house.
- Grounding block connected to electric meter ground.
- In structured wiring cabinet the sat coax goes to a 4-way splitter.

- Power inserter goes to power port on splitter.
- The two locations that will have boxes are connected to splitter.
- CCK device goes to remaining port on splitter and into router/switch.

- In each of the rooms the HR34 and H2x are only connected to coax.

I do have a couple of questions also:

- How should grounding blocks be connected outside?

- Can you just connect from Comcast grounding block to Directv grounding block? And if so, how should they be spliced?
- Current ground connections outside look a bit oxidized - should a grease be applied?

- Right now both coax's are tied into a grounding block in the structured wiring cabinet.

- Is there a problem with them being grounded in two places (inside ground is also electric ground).
- Is there a problem with Comcast and Directv sharing a grounding block in the structured wiring cabinet?


Oh, and a single non-install related question.

- Can you watch on-demand on the H2x, or is that only on the HR34?

Appreciate the help - just trying to make it as smooth as possible for the installer.

Edited by ecf, 13 February 2012 - 02:10 PM.
Change DECA -> CCK


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#2 OFFLINE   BobStokesbary

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:42 PM

Sounds pretty close to me. Just a couple of notes.

1) Let the installer do the run from the dish to your splitter. He will use solid copper coax with a grounding wire bound to the wire. He is in the best position to make sure the grounding is done OK. My installed did all that as part of the "free" install.

2) If you have the comcast as your internet provider and you have their latest modem/router, you have to have a hardwired CCK to make things work. It has been very confusing on previous posts, but comcast's newest modem wireless router uses the Class A private configuration instead of the Class C. And apparently they have the port that D* uses for internet connection blocked. It just doesn't work. This is not a problem on the hardwired connection.

3) Let your installer know of your concerns about the grounding. I doubt it is an issue, but best to give him all the information.

4) All VOD has to go first to your recorder (HR34), but can be viewed on your MRV connected H2x.

5) While you are technically correct to call the CCK a DECA, it has specific functionality unique to its part in the system and should be referred to as CCK.

#3 OFFLINE   ecf

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:57 PM

Sounds pretty close to me. Just a couple of notes.

1) Let the installer do the run from the dish to your splitter. He will use solid copper coax with a grounding wire bound to the wire. He is in the best position to make sure the grounding is done OK. My installed did all that as part of the "free" install.


I was planning on letting him do that, but just wanted to make sure I was correct in what to expect.

2) If you have the comcast as your internet provider and you have their latest modem/router, you have to have a hardwired CCK to make things work. It has been very confusing on previous posts, but comcast's newest modem wireless router uses the Class A private configuration instead of the Class C. And apparently they have the port that D* uses for internet connection blocked. It just doesn't work. This is not a problem on the hardwired connection.


I have my own router, but want to use hardwired anyway... way too much wireless congestion around here for me to want to add even more traffic. Besides - seems like there's lead lining in the drywall in this house.

3) Let your installer know of your concerns about the grounding. I doubt it is an issue, but best to give him all the information.


I definitely will let him know, but after looking through the 'shame' thread I just want to make sure I know what's the proper approach. I'd prefer my install won't be featured in that thread :)

4) All VOD has to go first to your recorder (HR34), but can be viewed on your MRV connected H2x.


That's what I figured. So you'd have to start the download on the HR34 and then go watch it on the H2x. That makes a difference in deciding what room the HR34 goes in.

5) While you are technically correct to call the CCK a DECA, it has specific functionality unique to its part in the system and should be referred to as CCK.


Thanks.

#4 OFFLINE   ecf

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:36 PM

Installation went pretty smooth. After about 1hr 15mins the installer was able to get back out in Atlanta rush hour traffic. I still have to double check the outside, but it looked like it was all good.

He did forget to activate internet on both receivers, which I found out when I couldn't access on demand.

For some reason both DVR and multi-room had been dropped from my order so he had to call in to get it activated. And then after he left somehow multi-room was deactivated on the HR34 again.

It looks like that might have created some billing issues. The DVR service is now listed as $8 rather than the $7 I signed up for. And (possibly unrelated) my Choice Extra package that I signed up for at $65.99 is now the new legacy Choice Extra Classic at $68.99. Or is that just the price increase from a couple of days ago? For some reason I just assumed that the price was locked in for the first 24 mths.

#5 OFFLINE   Tribbs

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:10 AM

[I was going to PM the OP for permission to cut in here with my own "Prep" question but I don't have enough posts/permission to PM ecf. If there are objections I'll delete this post.]

As I had mentioned in another thread I will eventually need two dishs. (The second dish being for 95W international.) Due to rebate and ordering complications I will have the main dish installed next week and delay the install of the 95W dish for a month or so. (It seems if I add international service to my Premier Package now, before install, I will have to reset my account and get hit with higher rates, lower rebates....)

My question is I don't want the installer to mount a dish with SWiM enabled LNBs. Want I want instead is the SWM8 multiswitch (mounted at dish) so I can easilly add the second international dish and avoid extra install charges later.

Is it likely the installer will honor my request? Any suggestions are appreciated.

#6 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:16 AM

[I was going to PM the OP for permission to cut in here with my own "Prep" question but I don't have enough posts/permission to PM ecf. If there are objections I'll delete this post.]

As I had mentioned in another thread I will eventually need two dishs. (The second dish being for 95W international.) Due to rebate and ordering complications I will have the main dish installed next week and delay the install of the 95W dish for a month or so. (It seems if I add international service to my Premier Package now, before install, I will have to reset my account and get hit with higher rates, lower rebates....)

My question is I don't want the installer to mount a dish with SWiM enabled LNBs. Want I want instead is the SWM8 multiswitch (mounted at dish) so I can easilly add the second international dish and avoid extra install charges later.

Is it likely the installer will honor my request? Any suggestions are appreciated.

"Likely?" no.
Should you order the international programing at the same time, then yes.
A.K.A VOS

#7 OFFLINE   Tribbs

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:38 AM

"Likely?" no.
Should you order the international programing at the same time, then yes.


Well, the DirecTV rep I personally spoke to face to face (at Best Buy) told me to call to order international seperately. When I did that they wanted to "reset" everything. They want to charge me $5 for a new account number!? And to add insult charge me higher rates and lower monthly rebates. What's up with that? Is that how DirecTV treats new customers ordering the Premeir package HD with the full monty who simply wants to add another package?

I'm am about to pull the plug on DirecTV if this is the level of customer care I can expect in the future.

So what do you suggest?

Edited by Tribbs, 14 February 2012 - 10:13 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:17 AM

Well, the DirecTV rep I spoke to (at Best Buy) told me to call to order international seperately. When I did that they wanted to "reset" everything in effect charging me higher rates and lower monthly rebates.

So what do you suggest?

If you're going to do the separate ordering, then the install will end up being a two part install.
They will use the SWM8 on the second trip.
While you may know your future plans, the work order system doesn't, so "future plans" aren't accounted for and SWM8s are used only "when needed".
A.K.A VOS

#9 OFFLINE   Tribbs

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:44 AM

If you're going to do the separate ordering, then the install will end up being a two part install.


But, when I call to add the international package to my Premeir package BEFORE THE INSTALL next week they want to:

1) Charge me a $5 fee to change my account number.
2) Increase the monthly rate for the Premeir package.
3) Decrease my monthly rebate I'm entitled to for two years.

While you may know your future plans, the work order system doesn't, so "future plans" aren't accounted for and SWM8s are used only "when needed".


That wasn't my "future plan". I wanted to order everything at the same time. It was a DirecTV rep in the Best Buy store that told me that. I also called DirecTV, was transfered (disconnectd once) a half dozen times, and was told the above additional (1,2,3) charges would apply!

#10 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:58 AM

But, when I call to add the international package to my Premeir package BEFORE THE INSTALL next week they want to:

1) charge me a $5 fee to change account number.
2) Increase the rate for the Premeir package.
3) decrease my monthly renbate for two years.

That wasn't my "future plan". I wanted to order everything at the same time. It was a DirecTV rep in the Best Buy store that told me that. I also called DirecTV, was transfered (disconnectd once) a half dozen times, and was told the above additional (1,2,3) charges would apply!

It sounds like you'll simply have to have this done in two visits.
A.K.A VOS

#11 OFFLINE   ecf

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:48 AM

[I was going to PM the OP for permission to cut in here with my own "Prep" question but I don't have enough posts/permission to PM ecf. If there are objections I'll delete this post.]


No problem at all. Just glad you got your question answered.

It looks like that might have created some billing issues. The DVR service is now listed as $8 rather than the $7 I signed up for. And (possibly unrelated) my Choice Extra package that I signed up for at $65.99 is now the new legacy Choice Extra Classic at $68.99. Or is that just the price increase from a couple of days ago? For some reason I just assumed that the price was locked in for the first 24 mths.


I just got the first invoice, so I can answer part of my own question - there was also a credit on the bill for $3 for the first 24 months. As for the DVR service I am not really sure what the charge was originally and I don't know if I want to bother with calling in about $1/month.


Still not completely sure about the ground related questions I had:

- How should grounding blocks be connected outside?

- Can you just connect from Comcast grounding block to Directv grounding block? And if so, how should they be spliced?


The installer put a new ground from the meter to the Directv grounding block, but left it kind of just flapping around. Looks kind of messy and I worry that the landscapers might get their mowers or edgers caught on it.

The Comcast and Directv grounding blocks are less than 12" from each other and I was wondering if I could just connect them in series to minimize the wires. Might have to check with an electrician for the best way to do that since it is more NEC related.

- Right now both coax's are tied into a grounding block in the structured wiring cabinet.

- Is there a problem with them being grounded in two places (inside ground is also electric ground).


It didn't appear that it should be an issue that the coax is grounded in two different places but I'm still not 100% sure. I wouldn't really think it was an issue since it is the same ground, but I might end up asking an electrician about that too.

And finally I have a new question...

We have an old Philips crt tv (27AF43) that is hooked up to one of the boxes but the remote won't turn on/off the tv when I use the DTV&tv on/off button. The remote (RC65X) has been programmed and controls the volume no problem, I can also switch the remote to TV and use the PWR button to turn it on/off. It just doesn't make sense that the remote knows how to power on/off the tv with one button but not with the 'combo' button.

#12 OFFLINE   cabletech

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:59 AM

As for the grounding, NO, you can not series both grounding blocks. Each has to go to the main house grounding source as a seperate system. If the wire that the installer used is of concern for landscape, then you can get same nail clips and nail to the side of the house to get it out of the way.

There is also not problem about having two ground blocks in the system, so just relax.

As for the remote problem, when using older tv's, some times the remotes do not like to 'see' all funcations.

#13 OFFLINE   Tribbs

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 12:46 PM

It sounds like you'll simply have to have this done in two visits.


Nah! I went back to BB and spoke face-to-face with the original BB/DTV rep. who had it all squared away for me. DTV even called me at home to re-confirm my order and install date.

That's much better customer care.
All better now - :)

Edited by Tribbs, 15 February 2012 - 12:52 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   ecf

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:35 PM

As for the grounding, NO, you can not series both grounding blocks. Each has to go to the main house grounding source as a seperate system. If the wire that the installer used is of concern for landscape, then you can get same nail clips and nail to the side of the house to get it out of the way.

There is also not problem about having two ground blocks in the system, so just relax.


I'll probably just pick up another slightly longer piece of 10 ga and bury it like the cable and telco grounds already are. That way I don't have to put any more holes in my vinyl siding or try to staple into the slab.

Oh, and I'm pretty relaxed - just prefer to do it right. :)

As for the remote problem, when using older tv's, some times the remotes do not like to 'see' all funcations.


It just seems like whoever designed the remote messed up somehow since it has the correct code to turn on/off the tv when switched to TV mode. The "All on/off" should really just be two distinct codes sent one after the other.

I suppose there's no way to teach the remote the correct code?

#15 OFFLINE   Tribbs

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 04:21 PM

What range in diameter is the Slimline dish mast mount "clamp" able to accomodate?

I beleive it is designed for a 2" mast but can it accomodate a 1.9" pipe?
Or would it be better to go up in diameter to 2.375" pipe?

(I am having a plumber afix an adapter to my existing 60mm tripod dish mast.
The closest to 2" O.D. galvanized pipe comes is either 1.9" or 2.375".)

#16 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 08:27 AM

What range in diameter is the Slimline dish mast mount "clamp" able to accomodate?

I beleive it is designed for a 2" mast but can it accomodate a 1.9" pipe?
Or would it be better to go up in diameter to 2.375" pipe?


Two inch. 1.9" is too small, 2.1" is too big. Most regular pipe does not come in 2". Check a muffler shop for exhaust pipe, or maybe chain link fencing shop.

#17 OFFLINE   Tribbs

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 04:29 PM

Solution: call plumber

Posted Image

2" O.D. Sleeve
slides snugly over
1-1/4" Gal. Steel Pipe (O.D. 1-21/32" or 1.66")
threaded into
Reducer
threaded on to
60mm Tripod Pole

DONE!

Edited by Tribbs, 17 February 2012 - 07:39 AM.





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