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How to hook up speakers


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42 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   olguy

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:38 PM

Impossible to have my center at ear level. It would be in the center of my 60" Mits. :lol: And like the OP my center has to be on the lower shelf just above the floor. But the POLK CS10 which it is and the CS20 have a horizontal surface that will make the speaker face perpendicular to the floor or it can be turned over and then the speaker face has about a 10 - 15 degree angle so the speakers are tilted back and pointing pretty close to my head.
Just another old geezer killin' time till time kills me.

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#27 OFFLINE   lugnutathome

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:36 PM

For normal sized listening environments this makes sense as most speakers (despite the marketing claims to the contrary) have a very narrow "sweet spot" and the recommended configuration will yield best results with a HTIAB on up.

One of the best things about the Klipsch loudspeakers are the horns. There is no sweet "spot" as the high frequency dispersion spreads outward all directions instead of being "focused".

In my big theater room I run 2 RF7s (dual 10 in cones and the big throated horn) up 48 inches off the floor. I run the center RF7 about 24 inches above the floor (TV is on the 48 inch high shelf with the RF7s) and my 7.1 RS7 surrounds are mounted as indicated in the "clicky thing" except they are up nearly 10 ft above the floor. The very rear pair is just below ceiling height angled down and the mid surrounds are about 10 inches below the ceiling flat to the wall.

Coupled with an RSW15 the effect is staggeringly like going to a high end movie theater with wide expansive sound. The room is 25 ft wide and about 45 ft deep.

If I were using anything but Klipsch all would need to be near ear level and would not deliver the spacious sound rather a more direct in your face effect. Like I get in the video game room's set up.

I've used dipole designs in the past and these do the Bose dispersal type thing creating a larger soundstage but in the end I prefer the Kipsch horns to do the deed from a single point.

If you feel you must add presence to your system you could run smaller "B" speakers mounted up fairly high in the front angled down and slightly out to bounce their sound off the ceiling and side walls. You'll need to properly set crossover so you aren't killing the little critters and thaty could take away some of the fullness from your mains.

THX recommends an 80hz crossover and many surround type speakers have a low of 80 +/- 3 db which is a significant amount of energy variance at their tail out point of 80. I like to run my smaller systems at a 90 crossover, allowing the fronts to share bass with the sub and then set the sub so it is transparent with music material and only really mouths off with true LFE material or really heavy bass material is sent it's way.

The OP seems to want a dispersed effect and I agree dual fronts just don't cut it. Better served to look at the front end speakers and upgrade them all with ones that better suit their tastes. Just advise one to be careful when auditioning speakers. Make sure the amp driving them does not have any loudness contours, tone controls, EQ set to anything but FLAT "0" (middle notch on the control dial or slider), use your reference material for comparison, and if they sound wrong flat than move on.

Don "once I found Klipsch reference series speakers I was done looking" Bolton

Placement is a PITA because the room layout, items in the room, etc all conspire to draw out portions of the sonic wave. Similarly these items will enhance other parts of the wave. It takes lots of trial and error

Good source of info! I was glad to see that they say the center should be as close to ear level as possible. I was a bit surprised to see that they recommend the surrounds be at ear level, as I'd previously read that the surrounds should be a few feed above ear level but angled downward.[


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#28 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:42 PM

Very few rooms will ever be setup for optimum speaker setup. It's just not something that architect's care about when they design floor plans. Even if the room was setup perfectly for speakers there are other issues that can arise. There's a thread about room setups that we talked about awhile ago.

All most of us can do is deal with what we have. Buying good bookshelf speakers and investing in shelving can do wonders for speaker placement. After that it's just playing with settings that you have available to make it sound the best to you.

#29 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:46 PM

I currently have two pair of speaker wires in the wall for the two rear speakers. To hook up a 6.1 system, can I use one of those pair for the two positve L and R sides, and use the other pair for positive single rear, and common negative for all 3, or do the negatives all have to be on a separate wire?

Tivo Premier XL4, Tivo Premier, Tivo HD whole home on Xfinity HD, DirecTv Whole Home with 39" high gain KaKu dish, Roku3,SageTv 8 TB Win8 Server -> DVDO Edge-> Denon AVR, Klipsch KB15's/Panasonic 55ST60 plasma"


#30 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:29 AM

All three negatives have to be on separate wires.

Otherwise you will blow your amp up.

The only time you find a common ground speaker output is on the cheapest car stereos, and even then, you better be damn sure before you try it.
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#31 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:51 AM

Ok, thanks. Another trip under the house is in my future :)

Tivo Premier XL4, Tivo Premier, Tivo HD whole home on Xfinity HD, DirecTv Whole Home with 39" high gain KaKu dish, Roku3,SageTv 8 TB Win8 Server -> DVDO Edge-> Denon AVR, Klipsch KB15's/Panasonic 55ST60 plasma"


#32 OFFLINE   olguy

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:22 AM

Very few rooms will ever be setup for optimum speaker setup. It's just not something that architect's care about when they design floor plans. Even if the room was setup perfectly for speakers there are other issues that can arise. There's a thread about room setups that we talked about awhile ago.

All most of us can do is deal with what we have. Buying good bookshelf speakers and investing in shelving can do wonders for speaker placement. After that it's just playing with settings that you have available to make it sound the best to you.

Boy, the architect that designed this floor plan back in the mid 80s certainly did not have speaker set up in mind. The room is 19 X 22 and as you can see open to the kitchen/breakfast area at the rear with a double door to the entry. I just set up a new Onkyo TX-NR 709 with Polk TSi400 mains, CS10 center, RTi A1 rears and PSW 125 12" sub. I used the Audyssey MultEQ to set it up. Some goofy settings for distance and levels but I checked with a meter and the speakers are all within 1 - 2 dB of each other and it sounds good to my beat up 74 year old ears. Especially when I crank it so that it's louder than my tinnitus. :lol: You can see I made a poor choice of TV stands as for my gear. May correct that shortly so I can have my center in the center.

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Edited by olguy, 27 February 2012 - 10:26 AM.
old man typos

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#33 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:50 AM

Ok, thanks. Another trip under the house is in my future :)

:nono:
The benefit you'd get from a 6.1 installation may not be worth the aggravation of pulling the additional wire for the center rear. I have two 6.2 systems and one 5.1, and the 5.1 is just fine.

Charlie
--------------------

Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#34 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:58 AM

Olguy - I can relate to your problem. With four surround systems in our house (2 HTIB's and 2 nice component systems), none are perfect due to room designs. None of our surrounds are on the side, as recommended. None have the ideal equilateral triangle spacing. The center speaker in the family room is close to floor level. You do what you gotta do. ;)

Charlie
--------------------

Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#35 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:53 PM

I no longer buy pre-designed stands or entertainment centers. For less money you can build your own using plywood(oak on the outside) and stain to make it better to your needs than buying one and making it work.

#36 OFFLINE   olguy

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:55 PM

I no longer buy pre-designed stands or entertainment centers. For less money you can build your own using plywood(oak on the outside) and stain to make it better to your needs than buying one and making it work.

I have neither the tools nor desire to be a woodworker. I just need to do better at shopping. :lol:
Just another old geezer killin' time till time kills me.

#37 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:11 PM

I have neither the tools nor desire to be a woodworker. I just need to do better at shopping. :lol:


I can understand that you could always find a local carpenter to make you something you want.

The last one I did I pre-ordered the wood cut already from a lumber yard. It cost me another $10 but well worth the time as all it takes is a drill, couple bits, box of screws, wood filler, stain, and a lacquer finish.

#38 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:36 PM

I can understand that you could always find a local carpenter to make you something you want.
.


My co worker has every woodworking tool known to man. I gave him the size last summer and asked him how much it would cost to build an entertainment center on castors so I could roll the whole thing out to clean and rewire, and have twin adjustable shelves on both side? He said he would figure it out over the weekend. The next Monday, he shows up with it already built. Fit perfect. Been using it since. And he used left over wood except for the trim, so didnt even charge me for it.

Tivo Premier XL4, Tivo Premier, Tivo HD whole home on Xfinity HD, DirecTv Whole Home with 39" high gain KaKu dish, Roku3,SageTv 8 TB Win8 Server -> DVDO Edge-> Denon AVR, Klipsch KB15's/Panasonic 55ST60 plasma"


#39 OFFLINE   Christopher Gould

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:57 AM

My co worker has every woodworking tool known to man. I gave him the size last summer and asked him how much it would cost to build an entertainment center on castors so I could roll the whole thing out to clean and rewire, and have twin adjustable shelves on both side? He said he would figure it out over the weekend. The next Monday, he shows up with it already built. Fit perfect. Been using it since. And he used left over wood except for the trim, so didnt even charge me for it.


I built mine. Mostly out of MDF. Wheels are nice. With the weight of the center plus all the equipment im guessing mine weights 600-700lbs. With just alittle effort I can roll it out from the wall.

#40 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

Another option for Olguy is to move the picture above the TV and then mount the TV on the wall where the picture is. That would free up the top shelf where you could put your center and free up some space on the shelf.

#41 OFFLINE   olguy

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:57 PM

Another option for Olguy is to move the picture above the TV and then mount the TV on the wall where the picture is. That would free up the top shelf where you could put your center and free up some space on the shelf.

Not an option. It's a Mitsubishi DLP. And I think I am well aware of all my options, thank you. I didn't post seeking help but to compare my situation with that of the OP's and in agreement with the fact that not all rooms are built with home theater set ups in mind.

I am glad some folks have the talent, time, money or whatever to have stands built or do it themselves. What those folks need to realize is there are other priorities for the rest of us.
Just another old geezer killin' time till time kills me.

#42 OFFLINE   John Williams

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:18 PM

All three negatives have to be on separate wires.

Otherwise you will blow your amp up.

The only time you find a common ground speaker output is on the cheapest car stereos, and even then, you better be damn sure before you try it.


Yes, you should run separate negatives to every speaker for current load and for compatibility for any amp you might use.

Beyond that, you are incorrect Spock.
MOST! audio/video receivers on the market ARE common ground. Go get an ohm meter and test if you don't believe me.

The exception to this: some of the highend amplifiers that use BTL outputs (B&K, Old Harmon amps, etc...). Any amp that is bridgable is not common ground, and a lot of multi-channel distribution amps are not common ground.

#43 OFFLINE   lugnutathome

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:29 PM

Very much understood that one!

Then there are lunatics like myself that take those considerations to heart when home shopping. In my younger years I always had to compromise for my toys (wife(s), kids, extended family, etc). As I've aged and have been able to afford what I want and I leverage those old longings to ensure I now get what I want. So I do get the priorities bit, though mine would be considered all wrong by most.:grin:

I also know these times are fleeting as I age and head into the time when I lose mobility, I'll be forced into more traditional accommodations, so I look at now as being my time knowing eventually that by need things will change.

When we moved out to the farm, after a few weeks my wife made a trip out of town and when she returned I had managed to get my two tall floor standing speakers up room front on 48 inch high ledges in the corners. She was most vocal despite the fact that I had warned her prior. My sympathetic response was "deal with it".

For several years she'd try to set bric-a-brac on the ledges in front of them and I would remove it. Eventually she jokingly referred to that area as our "Gaza Strip". I heard her sister mutter once "I'd never let my husband do something like that" so her husband and I could hear her when she did. My reply was "good thing you are not married to me then eh?" while grinning at her.

The room is massive with lots of art, antique furniture, and reclining leather seating for 8. Sound is exquisite. Everything I could have ever have wanted. A mixture of old world warmth and some high tech equipment to make it complete.

Not for a second do I believe myself anything less than very fortunate to be where I am at this stage in life.

I get the meaning of priorities. Mine are a bit twisted for now;) Ever so grateful that for now they can be.

Don "if it can't be done right then really, what's the point?:sure: ("right" however is fleeting based on so many things)" Bolton

Not an option. It's a Mitsubishi DLP. And I think I am well aware of all my options, thank you. I didn't post seeking help but to compare my situation with that of the OP's and in agreement with the fact that not all rooms are built with home theater set ups in mind.

I am glad some folks have the talent, time, money or whatever to have stands built or do it themselves. What those folks need to realize is there are other priorities for the rest of us.


Edited by lugnutathome, 28 February 2012 - 06:35 PM.

What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?





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