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Enhanced Content???


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103 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Wezel

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:57 AM

...and I'm still trying to understand what "enhanced content" is. Once it's downloaded where is it? If I never see it and after 2 months of using my two THR-22's I don't even know what it is why in the world do I need to get it?

What say you Shades228?
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#22 OFFLINE   JBv

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:24 PM

It's some of the Push Satellite VOD and things like the Showcases. In other words if you go to channel 1000 anything that lets you "Watch Now" (They had a preview of Episodes Season 2 that was already downloaded to the receiver...a lot of it is VOD content).
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#23 OFFLINE   BAMCAT

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:30 PM

It's nowhere, vaperware, a ghost that can't be found.
I think the D* enabled this on the THR22 to antagonize the people that wanted a TiVo over D* junk.
I wouldn't mind it so much if:
1) It only tried to do its download at 0200hrs after the service update.
2) It restored the channel it took after it finished its useless job.
3) It's so called download appeared somewhere.
4) It wasn't mandated by D*, but the D* subscriber could opt out in the setup options.

The D* CSR"s Tell me that it only takes the secondary tuner to do the download, but I have had it come in and take the tuner that I was watching when the 2nd tuner was recording a program.
There are a lot of bugs in this software load that I hope TiVo will fix.
The one that is particularity irritating is if you are behind in the buffer watching a movie or program that you are not recording, as soon as that program ends the buffer is dumped and you find yourself watching the next program on that channel.
The HR10 would allow you to watch the program to the end.
Some flunky programer and software tester sure missed that error.
I don't think that D* has any intentions in fixing any of these things as the TiVo is just a D* unwanted stepchild created to appease the subscribers that wanted a TiVo that supported HD.
For my money, D* could have just left the MPEG2 stream on, and let me keep the HR10-250 going.
I think that the video quality looks a bit better than MPEG4 which is compressed so bad because D* cuts the bandwidth so much in order to squeeze as many channels as they can on the transponders.
Compressing the signal down was ok back when you were looking at a small screen, but today with the big flat panels, you can see the grain in the pictures if you look closely.
Oh well, D* knows that there isn't any other good choices out there. Dish compresses their signal more than D*.
The only saving grace is the local channels OTH which look so good.
D* has got us, and they know it so there is no motivation for them to improve their service as they are in the most part providing content to people that accepted VHS for years and years, so anything looks better.

#24 OFFLINE   JBv

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:36 PM

Oh I agree it's totally annoying. And yes, it does take both tuners sometimes and leaves my receiver on random channels.
Had I actually paid for my THR22 I would be rather unhappy. But it's free so I can't complain. Those who paid for it though...
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#25 OFFLINE   BAMCAT

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:44 PM

You have every right to complain as their actions deny you full use of your TiVo DVR.

I leave my 2nd tuner set to another channel intentionally so I can go to it at times and review the news. If D* had this software working right, it would have returned the tuner back to the channel that was there when finished doing its non download.

#26 OFFLINE   BAMCAT

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:51 AM

This Enhanced Content crap has been plaguing me all morning.
It was going at 0630hrs, and it was still coming back at 1030hrs, just on and on and on. Wonder if there is any recourse about this?
This is beyond reasonable need by D* to provide service.
And on top of it all, it isn't doing anything as it states in the banner," To Order This Program, call ex 736" so it isn't really recording or doing anything in the first place!
It is just a way of D* to harass and kick the TiVo people in the A** to get them to use their DVR's and dump TiVo.

Definition of Harass:

Verb (used with object) 1. to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute. 2. to trouble by repeated attacks ...

#27 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:31 PM

im thinking that its not harassment since you and like one other people have reported this.....call and get a replacement
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#28 OFFLINE   frankygamer

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:45 PM

If DirecTV doesn't admit its a problem, it will cost him $50 and a 2 year re-up. So your screwed either way.

#29 OFFLINE   JBv

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:00 PM

And on top of it all, it isn't doing anything as it states in the banner," To Order This Program, call ex 736" so it isn't really recording or doing anything in the first place!
It is just a way of D* to harass and kick the TiVo people in the A** to get them to use their DVR's and dump TiVo.

It is recording the stream, but all you see is the 736 message. It's not D* harassing TiVo users, it's just a rather poor implementation of something the HR2x DVRs have always done (using a tuner to record Cinema titles...except on this case it sometimes uses both tuners and is not transparent about it like the HR2x).

And the only way a replacement would fix this is if you whined enough and they replaced it with an HR2x.

Hopefully we'll get a software update that fixes this but considering the THR22 is still using the same software it originally shipped with eight months ago I'm not getting my hopes up.
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#30 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:59 PM

If DirecTV doesn't admit its a problem, it will cost him $50 and a 2 year re-up. So your screwed either way.


What are you talking about?

If Tivo controls the SW as much as DirecTV swears by, why does the DTV/TiVo agreement have a clause that Tivo can not speak of the thr22 other then it exists? You keep telling people to go to Tivo but they are legally silenced to speak. Add to that, my check goes to DirecTV not Tivo. Its a DirecTV dvr with Tivo. So if anyone has a problem, you go through DirecTV. I've never seen a prime contractor take so little responsibility on one of its products and blame the subcontractor.

DirecTV needs to take responsibility for its products. I don't care what issues they have with their subcontractor. They need to resolve it. If the agreement was nothing more then a no ligation contract, shame on both companies to limp out a new box with no support as some meaningless gesture.


I have no idea if a clause exists or not in the contract. I can tell you that TiVo is one of the most secretive companies in existance. In their NDA's you're not even allowed to state you have been given an NDA at any time from them. So who knows if that's even true or if it's just something that they do because it's how they run their business. I'm not saying it doesn't exist I'm just saying that TiVo themself are more closed about information than any other company I've seen that was not in a seurity environment.

DIRECTV doesn't have an issue with the contractor or an issue with the product. The current product is working as it's designed to work. You don't like how it's designed but that is an opinion rather than a problem. Before this box even came to be it was stated what it was going to be. It was going to be a Series II with HD capabilities. The old Series II used to make daily calls and lock a tuner as well at night. It's been years since I've had one active so I can't remember if it stayed on the channel or not but many nights I would get interupted because of this. Later software versions could have changed this but not when I had them.

As a consumer I wouldn't touch this TiVo box for one simple reason. TiVo demands a premium fee for their product but deliver an inferior product. It's been clear since day 1 that this was never a top priority to them and they even had issues with their top priority, the premier UI, which was focus number 2. Their primary focus as a company has been litigation for many years. Their lack of innnovation is astounding. Which is why I compare RIM to them now. I loved my TiVo's when I got them,for nostalgia I would like to have one, however I would never use it because it's just not what a DVR should be now days to meet my needs.
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#31 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:36 PM

While I'm sure you're correct and I thank you for the info, I still hate it, don't understand what it is as I never see it, and want it to stop. How can we all work together to get this done?


Is there not ads still on those machines you can access via the menu? Also don't they load pushed ppv movies to the tivos as well? Thats usually what the enhanced content is.

#32 OFFLINE   frankygamer

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:19 PM

What are you talking about?



I have no idea if a clause exists or not in the contract. I can tell you that TiVo is one of the most secretive companies in existance. In their NDA's you're not even allowed to state you have been given an NDA at any time from them. So who knows if that's even true or if it's just something that they do because it's how they run their business. I'm not saying it doesn't exist I'm just saying that TiVo themself are more closed about information than any other company I've seen that was not in a seurity environment.

DIRECTV doesn't have an issue with the contractor or an issue with the product. The current product is working as it's designed to work. You don't like how it's designed but that is an opinion rather than a problem. Before this box even came to be it was stated what it was going to be. It was going to be a Series II with HD capabilities. The old Series II used to make daily calls and lock a tuner as well at night. It's been years since I've had one active so I can't remember if it stayed on the channel or not but many nights I would get interupted because of this. Later software versions could have changed this but not when I had them.

As a consumer I wouldn't touch this TiVo box for one simple reason. TiVo demands a premium fee for their product but deliver an inferior product. It's been clear since day 1 that this was never a top priority to them and they even had issues with their top priority, the premier UI, which was focus number 2. Their primary focus as a company has been litigation for many years. Their lack of innnovation is astounding. Which is why I compare RIM to them now. I loved my TiVo's when I got them,for nostalgia I would like to have one, however I would never use it because it's just not what a DVR should be now days to meet my needs.

Head over to DirecTV's facebook page. People are complaining daily that they are being charged and re-up for equipment replacements.

And how can you say TiVo provides a inferior product? The Premiere Elite or XL4 or whatever you want to call is far better then the HR34. It already has Pandora and You tube works. Show streaming and show moving. Add Hulu, Netflix, Amazon etc and you have the best DVR in the market. All the HR34 has is one more tuner BUT half the hard drive space. Who made that brilliant decision.

If it wasn't for TiVo I would say the HR34 and HR2x are great DVR's but TiVo sets the bar and your as blinded by DirecTV as I could ever be by TiVo.

The reason TiVo has put little effort into the THR22 is because they aren't being paid for putting any effort into the THR22. It funny how one minute DirecTV Reps say the THR22 features were set from day one then the next minute you claim Tivo has some sort of control or investment in the product beyond that set feature set. Pick a story and stick to it. The features were set a long time ago or Tivo has invested nothing into the THR22. You don't get it both ways.

#33 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:43 PM

Head over to DirecTV's facebook page. People are complaining daily that they are being charged and re-up for equipment replacements.

And how can you say TiVo provides a inferior product? The Premiere Elite or XL4 or whatever you want to call is far better then the HR34. It already has Pandora and You tube works. Show streaming and show moving. Add Hulu, Netflix, Amazon etc and you have the best DVR in the market. All the HR34 has is one more tuner BUT half the hard drive space. Who made that brilliant decision.

If it wasn't for TiVo I would say the HR34 and HR2x are great DVR's but TiVo sets the bar and your as blinded by DirecTV as I could ever be by TiVo.

The reason TiVo has put little effort into the THR22 is because they aren't being paid for putting any effort into the THR22. It funny how one minute DirecTV Reps say the THR22 features were set from day one then the next minute you claim Tivo has some sort of control or investment in the product beyond that set feature set. Pick a story and stick to it. The features were set a long time ago or Tivo has invested nothing into the THR22. You don't get it both ways.


I can't stand the TiVo interface, it's way to restrictive and limited. I can easily call it inferior for my uses. I also don't mind if you disagree, but you should also do the same, and respect that people have their preferences. The last replaytv made was better than today's HR34 and TiVo, from an interface perspective, IMHO. The HR34 may be inferior for how you like to use and be treated by a dvr,but it's not an inferior product.

As for your other point, why do you think it can't be both. The features where set for the initial launch years ago, but there is nothing to stop TiVo from advancing it and giving it some more features as long as they fall within certain guidelines. Why is that not impossible to believe? I seriously doubt they would ever have begun trying to get any more features on the unit that required major work until they got at least the base ones they originally planned on getting out working so they could launch it. Oh their incentive is if they have more features, they could sell more and therefore make more money off DIRECTV subscribers. What more incentive should they need?

#34 OFFLINE   frankygamer

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:09 AM

I can't stand the TiVo interface, it's way to restrictive and limited. I can easily call it inferior for my uses. I also don't mind if you disagree, but you should also do the same, and respect that people have their preferences. The last replaytv made was better than today's HR34 and TiVo, from an interface perspective, IMHO. The HR34 may be inferior for how you like to use and be treated by a dvr,but it's not an inferior product.

As for your other point, why do you think it can't be both. The features where set for the initial launch years ago, but there is nothing to stop TiVo from advancing it and giving it some more features as long as they fall within certain guidelines. Why is that not impossible to believe? I seriously doubt they would ever have begun trying to get any more features on the unit that required major work until they got at least the base ones they originally planned on getting out working so they could launch it. Oh their incentive is if they have more features, they could sell more and therefore make more money off DIRECTV subscribers. What more incentive should they need?

Yes, interface is always subjective so it comes down to features although I would be curious what you find restrictive on the TiVo interface that the HR34 does better. I'm sure there are some but day to day the favorites matrix is about all I prefer on the HR34/HR2x from an interface perspective.

From a functional perspective I would put lack of Hard Drive Space, lack of 3rd party streaming options, lack of archiving and moving programing all more restrictive because they flat out are not there. We can argue about who lead the way (ReplyTv, TiVo, XYZ) in DVR technology but its a fact it is not DirecTV. DirecTV struggled for years to get the HR2x to have features of the HR10. Just recently the moved passed the HR10 will Whole Home and Pandora but it's still behind where TiVo is today on their Premiere Series. I remember DirecTV saying they would never have dual buffers. A single buffer on the active tuner was enough. But they had to give in because of what the HR10 could do and the HR20 could not. From there is was payoff TiVo and copy away.

The reason you can't have it both ways that the THR22 feature set was there from day one, yet TiVo had open reign to expand on those feature is just plan logic. You said it yourself, the better product the THR22 is, the more sales it will get and the more money Tivo will get. So why is TiVo not doing this? DirecTV's Answer = TiVo is lazy. OK lets say they are lazy. Let's check, TiVo's not rolling in the money so if there was an opportunity to make more they would jump at it, right? Or would they sit on their hands and do nothing? Logic says TiVo wants/needs the money but there is not a business case to invest in the THR22. The business case says TiVo does not feel they can compete with the HR series of DVR's. That is either from a "what TiVo can do" perspective or "what are they allowed to do". No matter how much one hate's TiVo, you must admit they can compete with the HR2x on an open playing field. DirecTV is still adding features TiVo has had for years so no, DirecTV has no way leaped into the future with their DVR technology. So what reason is left for TiVo not to put a significant effort into the THR22? There are none, so there must be something else. That something else is DirecTV calling the shots on the features on the THR22 just like they did on the DTiVo Series 1 and DTiVo Series 2. People forget the original DirecTV Tivo was actually supported by TiVo. If I had a problem, I called TiVo. It was when DirecTV pulled the TiVo boxes under their umbrella did things start to change.

If you think TiVo is just rolling in the dough and turns down money making opportunities, it makes no sense. Add to that looking under the hood of the THR22 you don't find a Series 2.5/HR10 architecture or even a a Series 3. It's the Premiere partitioning running new SW. features that we are being said Tivo can enable at their will are at minimum in the code base used for the THR22. Like I said in the other thread, I'm sure some TiVo developer already has Multi Room Viewing on the THR22 working. Just as an article stated there was a Tivo2Go option presented and rejected by DirecTV. The only reason Tivo has no enthusiasm for the THR22 is because all they are doing is re-adding satellite functionality and disabling every other feature DirecTV can't do.

It's interesting you speak highly of replayTV who couldn't stay in business because they were busy trying to make the perfect commercial skip against the wishes of Big Networks. It's funny reading the replayTV wiki and see no mention of TiVo in their demise but some company called DirecTV came in and bought what IP was left in 2007. I'd think you'd be more open to fair competition after seeing Replay ran out of business but I'm guessing you'd be more then happy if Tivo followed the same path and DirecTV picks the scraps. For all the crap TiVo gets on the DirecTV forums, the DirecTV DVRs would never be as good as they are without Tivo setting the baseline with the DirecTivo's much less the Premiere series. Like I said before, let the FCC do the equivalent of cable cards to satellite providers and things would be interesting again in the satellite DVR market. Until then it's fight for survival for Tivo or any 3rd party DVR company.

#35 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:14 PM

Head over to DirecTV's facebook page. People are complaining daily that they are being charged and re-up for equipment replacements.


I don't do FB anymore but there are enough instances of people on here that say they ordered an upgrade instead of a replacement due to either them thinking they'll get a newer model, or because an agent didn't do the right thing. However with that said if it's done properly then there isn't a charge other than D&H or nothing if they have the protection plan.

Terminology can be key so without specifics who knows if it's people upset about not getting free equipment or if it's legit issues with having a replacement done. Either way what you posted is incorrect.

And how can you say TiVo provides a inferior product? The Premiere Elite or XL4 or whatever you want to call is far better then the HR34. It already has Pandora and You tube works. Show streaming and show moving. Add Hulu, Netflix, Amazon etc and you have the best DVR in the market. All the HR34 has is one more tuner BUT half the hard drive space. Who made that brilliant decision.

If it wasn't for TiVo I would say the HR34 and HR2x are great DVR's but TiVo sets the bar and your as blinded by DirecTV as I could ever be by TiVo.

The reason TiVo has put little effort into the THR22 is because they aren't being paid for putting any effort into the THR22. It funny how one minute DirecTV Reps say the THR22 features were set from day one then the next minute you claim Tivo has some sort of control or investment in the product beyond that set feature set. Pick a story and stick to it. The features were set a long time ago or Tivo has invested nothing into the THR22. You don't get it both ways.


I'm not blind to TiVo. I think that at one point TiVo was a very innovative product that set the bar. However now I think that they're more interested in litigation then attempting to really be a leader. If you like TiVo then great but to say that they're the best thing is just an opinion and we all have one of those.

The THR22's features were chosen long long ago and if TiVo chose to want to update them they have the ability to do so. TiVo does get paid to do so that's why THR22 customers pay $5 more a month than other DVR's, even series 2 TiVo's, so I'm not sure why you think they aren't paid.

The real issue is that I don't think either company has any real interest in it at this point. TiVo didn't care enough to put the unit out in a time frame where it would be competitive because they were spending all of their resources on lawsuits and attempting to roll out their new UI.

You mention online access, which I have on about 6 other devices, and larger HD space, my HR34 never gets above 30% full, makes the 34 inferior? None of the items you mentioned in the XL would matter to me as a consumer. Now add in the fact I would have to use a cable company and that makes it even worse as the local cable company we have here is not competitive at all in services.

So you can keep bringing up items that don't matter for the THR22 but it doesn't change the fact it's an inferior product by a company that has shown time and time again that they don't really prioritize is it as something that is a focus.

If you really think that a satellite cable card technology would save TiVo you're mistaken. If it was true then TiVo would be selling huge numbers to cable companies and FIOS customers because they have the ability to do that already.

I get brand loyalty but you're focusing your effort in the wrong area. If you really wanted them to be successful you should be calling them out on their business decisions.
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#36 OFFLINE   frankygamer

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:58 PM

I don't do FB anymore but there are enough instances of people on here that say they ordered an upgrade instead of a replacement due to either them thinking they'll get a newer model, or because an agent didn't do the right thing. However with that said if it's done properly then there isn't a charge other than D&H or nothing if they have the protection plan.

Terminology can be key so without specifics who knows if it's people upset about not getting free equipment or if it's legit issues with having a replacement done. Either way what you posted is incorrect.

Why should I have the protection plan on something that is not mine and the damage is not related to anything other then normal use? If I don't have the protection plan is there an option to replace the unit without a renewal?

As usual the end result is always the same, it's the customers fault and not DirecTV's. You said the agent may have screwed up? Is that still the customers fault? Those are the complaints I'm reading. People are still in their base contract and are paying for hardware returns. If my leased cable modem smokes, I don't pay for a new one why is the DVR different?

Yes, terminology is key and it is all slanted to DirecTV. This was fine when agent and supervisors had the ability to use common sense if there was confusion but DirecTV has gone to a "tough #$%#" approach to Customer Service.



I'm not blind to TiVo. I think that at one point TiVo was a very innovative product that set the bar. However now I think that they're more interested in litigation then attempting to really be a leader. If you like TiVo then great but to say that they're the best thing is just an opinion and we all have one of those.


So you think the XL4 just fell out of the sky? Streaming support came from the lawsuit with Dish? Amazon, Netflix, and hulu Plus service just appeared in the code base because of lawyers.

If TiVo is so focused on litigation, how do they have the DVR with the most features on the market? Whether YOU like or need them is irrelevant.

It's funny you talk about focus on litigation. How is what TiVo is doing then what DirecTV does against Satellite pirate? Both are protecting their product. why is everything OK for DirecTV to do but not anyone else?

The THR22's features were chosen long long ago and if TiVo chose to want to update them they have the ability to do so. TiVo does get paid to do so that's why THR22 customers pay $5 more a month than other DVR's, even series 2 TiVo's, so I'm not sure why you think they aren't paid.


This is total speculation on your part. You have your opinion on TiVo's control and I have mine. Unless someone reads the contract and tells us, both theories are completely valid. Whether you based your theory on hallway talk and I based mine on logic and past history, neither of us really knows. And without knowing that, one can not say whether it is or is not worth TiVo's time and money to work on the unit. $5 a month isn't going to pay for a lot of engineering time if DirecTV just shoots down the implementation. Maybe the contract says tivo can design above and beyond the minimum requirements but DirecTV has final say what goes in the box. Why does DirecTV continue to distance themselves from this box. It IS A DIRECT DVR with TiVo. DirecTV calls the shots. Subcontractors don't call the shots on prime contractors.

The real issue is that I don't think either company has any real interest in it at this point. TiVo didn't care enough to put the unit out in a time frame where it would be competitive because they were spending all of their resources on lawsuits and attempting to roll out their new UI.

Like I said above Tivo still leads the way in features regardless of litigation. If these features are pointless to you and most why is DirecTV putting Pandora and You Tube on the HR2x and HR34? Someone much like these features.

You mention online access, which I have on about 6 other devices, and larger HD space, my HR34 never gets above 30% full, makes the 34 inferior? None of the items you mentioned in the XL would matter to me as a consumer. Now add in the fact I would have to use a cable company and that makes it even worse as the local cable company we have here is not competitive at all in services.

So DirecTV should have put a 500 GB drive in the HR34 based on your usage? More is better and i give the HR34 credit for a 5th tuner. I could say I never have 5 conflicts like you would say but i won't. The HR34 wins there. My cable company isn't great but DirecTV's prices are out of control and customer service has gone downhill. Hell of a good product but they have lost their way. Luckily for them Dish is even more inept so they will continue to lead the way for satellite.

So you can keep bringing up items that don't matter for the THR22 but it doesn't change the fact it's an inferior product by a company that has shown time and time again that they don't really prioritize is it as something that is a focus.

There is a business case why they don't prioritize this box. The TiVo is lazy argument just doesn't make sense for them. If the contract provided them a way to make money off the box, why wouldn't they spend the time and money? They aren't rolling in the dough. Oh yeah, their busy with litigation blah blah blah.

If you really think that a satellite cable card technology would save TiVo you're mistaken. If it was true then TiVo would be selling huge numbers to cable companies and FIOS customers because they have the ability to do that already.

All I'm saying is give all DVR manufacturers a fair playing field and you'd see more competition. Cable cards have proved this and opened many doors for TiVo that weren't there before.

I get brand loyalty but you're focusing your effort in the wrong area. If you really wanted them to be successful you should be calling them out on their business decisions.

Again this is all based on you hallway talk with your DirecTV buddies. You don't know Tivo's business on the THR22. But either way the THR22 is a DIRECTV DVR with TiVo. If DirecTV doesn't support their DVR, whether it's TiVo's issue is not, I have every right to complain to DirecTV.

In the end I have a DVR from DirecTV that hasn't had a single firmware update in 6+ months. Either TiVo developed the perfect DVR (pretty good for a company focused on litigation) or DirecTV has made the THR22 a zero priority for a 6 month old box and has no communication with their sub.

Yeah, we will never agree as since we each give different companies the benefit of the doubt. So discussing who to blame is pointless. All I know is if look under the hood of the THR22 (specifically the log files) I see references to Tivo features that are not enabled. You'll say it's dead code, I'll say the box is ready to do more then DirecTV will allow. Anyway I'll go away and let the tivo blame game continue. I'm just one customer and DirecTV won't miss me.

#37 OFFLINE   frankygamer

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:59 PM

PS i hope someone appreciates I learned "multi-Quote" :)

#38 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:13 PM

Yes, interface is always subjective so it comes down to features although I would be curious what you find restrictive on the TiVo interface that the HR34 does better. I'm sure there are some but day to day the favorites matrix is about all I prefer on the HR34/HR2x from an interface perspective.

From a functional perspective I would put lack of Hard Drive Space, lack of 3rd party streaming options, lack of archiving and moving programing all more restrictive because they flat out are not there. We can argue about who lead the way (ReplyTv, TiVo, XYZ) in DVR technology but its a fact it is not DirecTV. DirecTV struggled for years to get the HR2x to have features of the HR10. Just recently the moved passed the HR10 will Whole Home and Pandora but it's still behind where TiVo is today on their Premiere Series. I remember DirecTV saying they would never have dual buffers. A single buffer on the active tuner was enough. But they had to give in because of what the HR10 could do and the HR20 could not. From there is was payoff TiVo and copy away.

The reason you can't have it both ways that the THR22 feature set was there from day one, yet TiVo had open reign to expand on those feature is just plan logic. You said it yourself, the better product the THR22 is, the more sales it will get and the more money Tivo will get. So why is TiVo not doing this? DirecTV's Answer = TiVo is lazy. OK lets say they are lazy. Let's check, TiVo's not rolling in the money so if there was an opportunity to make more they would jump at it, right? Or would they sit on their hands and do nothing? Logic says TiVo wants/needs the money but there is not a business case to invest in the THR22. The business case says TiVo does not feel they can compete with the HR series of DVR's. That is either from a "what TiVo can do" perspective or "what are they allowed to do". No matter how much one hate's TiVo, you must admit they can compete with the HR2x on an open playing field. DirecTV is still adding features TiVo has had for years so no, DirecTV has no way leaped into the future with their DVR technology. So what reason is left for TiVo not to put a significant effort into the THR22? There are none, so there must be something else. That something else is DirecTV calling the shots on the features on the THR22 just like they did on the DTiVo Series 1 and DTiVo Series 2. People forget the original DirecTV Tivo was actually supported by TiVo. If I had a problem, I called TiVo. It was when DirecTV pulled the TiVo boxes under their umbrella did things start to change.

If you think TiVo is just rolling in the dough and turns down money making opportunities, it makes no sense. Add to that looking under the hood of the THR22 you don't find a Series 2.5/HR10 architecture or even a a Series 3. It's the Premiere partitioning running new SW. features that we are being said Tivo can enable at their will are at minimum in the code base used for the THR22. Like I said in the other thread, I'm sure some TiVo developer already has Multi Room Viewing on the THR22 working. Just as an article stated there was a Tivo2Go option presented and rejected by DirecTV. The only reason Tivo has no enthusiasm for the THR22 is because all they are doing is re-adding satellite functionality and disabling every other feature DirecTV can't do.

It's interesting you speak highly of replayTV who couldn't stay in business because they were busy trying to make the perfect commercial skip against the wishes of Big Networks. It's funny reading the replayTV wiki and see no mention of TiVo in their demise but some company called DirecTV came in and bought what IP was left in 2007. I'd think you'd be more open to fair competition after seeing Replay ran out of business but I'm guessing you'd be more then happy if Tivo followed the same path and DirecTV picks the scraps. For all the crap TiVo gets on the DirecTV forums, the DirecTV DVRs would never be as good as they are without Tivo setting the baseline with the DirecTivo's much less the Premiere series. Like I said before, let the FCC do the equivalent of cable cards to satellite providers and things would be interesting again in the satellite DVR market. Until then it's fight for survival for Tivo or any 3rd party DVR company.


I prefer Directvs one touch record, record defaults settings, and other things of that nature. They don't force you to walk though steps to do certain things, they let you use shortcuts. I prefer the PIG, and other little things of that nature. I have heard some of those thing may be on the new premiere editions, but to little to late for me, that's just catching up as far as I am concerned. There is nothing from a day to day use on the tivo that is better for me than whats on any hrxx. The tivo seems to treat me like I have never used a dvr before, every time I use it. I feel that's silly. One of the other things I like about the Directv. You can turn their hints on and off, the ones that actually create pop ups for new people trying to learn how to do things. That's smarter.

I can't call any dvr with 100 hrs of HD recording space lacking in hard drive size, I don't care who the manufacturer is. Most people don't even need that. I need more, but not most, and you have to look at costs at some point. And they do give you esata, so you are not limited.

3rd party streaming options is based on the provider, Directv won't let a competitor have a front row in their own system, that's just common sense, and tivo and hr34 are equal on that ground in their Directv dvrs.

The lack of archiving or moving from one unit to another when you know a unit is about to die, yeah, that's the biggest lacking thing the HRxxs have going against it IMHO. However, that doesn't make up for all the other deficiencies in the way tivos operate to my liking, since that is something that happens so rarely in general. I and my folks both have some original HR20s that where picked up the month they hit the market, and still work perfectly to this day. I also think at some point, we will see that all change, I just would like to see it soon rather than latter.

I won't get into the why it took so long for DLB to hit the hrs, but it had nothing to do with paying tivo, they don't have any patents on that. HR20 had lots of issues when it came out sure, but its been beyond an hr10 for years as well. I don't think they have been copying tivo at all. The general concept and design philosophy has remained consistent, much to my dismay. Yes, there are things I would like to see them change a lot, but they are things that tivo does not do either... I never said Directv invented this stuff. The only thing they have invented is how they want their actual platform to operate. Replaytv and tivo both invented the general concept and workings of DVRs, and I much preferred the design philosophy of ReplayTV over anyone else I have seen. I think they payment for tivo was to extend what they already had in place for patents on how they accomplish things, not so much on whether they could do them. Now that they own replaytv, Tivo has very little leverage when the next deal comes up though.

And behind the tivo premiere, not sure, haven't played with one lately. Last I looked tivo hadn't even delivered all they said they would on that platform. If they cant even get their own platform to where they say it should be, then how can you expect them to get something that is more difficult to do further along with any real speed.

If you had a feature set, and where struggling to get it launched, would you try and redo half of it or more or add more complex abilities when you haven't even been able to get the basics working yet?

Tivo has a history of not deleivering on just about everything they promise, so yeah, sorry, I blame Tivo for their lack of moving forward with the platform of the thr22. The reason is simple tivo isn't investing more, they don't want to spend the money, or they don't want to follow guidelines on how things can operate per Directv. Directv has specific things they do because of their technology and contracts with their broadcasters. I have zero doubt that some of that has an influence on how Directv designs their dvrs, more so than any other provider. And I have no clue what Tivo does that is leaps and bounds ahead of Directv, I can't think of one thing. 3rd party apps do NOT count, they make no sense on any platform running Directv, unless they are complimentary, like pandora and youtube.

I have never once said that Tivo can't compete. IN fact that is the point, they can all compete. No question there. And when it comes down to it, its the interface that makes a big difference, and tivos is poor for me, and great for others.

Tivo is the one doing the support on the thr22, whether its direct or indirect, I don't know, but I would think it would be indirect. Directv should field the issues and move them to tivo. Make the experience seamless for the customer. Customers don't want to be told by Directv, well it may be a directv dvr, buts its software is done by tivo, so go bug them. That makes sense. If you have ever worked in reatil you will fully understand this. People didn't come back to my store with a defective $5000 tv and figure I would tell them to call Sony, they expected me, the one who sold it to them to work with them on fixing it.

I think tivo has little money so they pick and choose which projects they think they can make the most money on, and directv isn't one of them right now, because they don't want to spend the time and money on something that can not operate just like their other platforms, because of the delivery mechanism involved (satelllite). Heck, they ditched building firmware for comcast cable boxes, and completely changed that deal because they obviously just couldn't get it done on another platforms guidelines. This is no different.

How do you know they are running premier? I thought that was flashed based? Another possibility, Directv says it has to work a specific way, and tivo says we want to do it our way. In the past, tivos way was not secure enough for directv, end of story. Its our method or none at all, and tivo didn't want to spend the time and money to do it their way. Who knows, maybe they are right now and we just don't know it yet? That's their problem, not Directvs. Directvs is to their broadcasters, and I don't think broadcasters where to happy with the old HR10s.... Directv can not afford to allow anything they feel isn't completely secure on the market.

And as a simple example of how Tivo isn't all that good at meeting anything when it comes to Directv, their first Directvtivo didn't have the second tuner active for months after it launched. And the hr10, it was almost a year late from when they said it would ship, they had so much trouble getting it to work right, for several reasons. (that I do know for fact)

For fun, look into how Directv fried a ton of illegal cards in one big operation just before the super bowl many years ago. They are more concerned with security than tivo is, IMHO. That why Tivo 2 go doesn't work. Contracts Directv has with broadcasters may limit what they are allowed to offer, and what mechanism is allowed to be used to do so. We just don't know the details. Cable cards are a whole different animal that don't have to really deal with the same things... Or to put it another way, you assume Directv can't do it because they can't program it, I believe, and on some instances am sure, they don't do some things the way tivo does because of competition and contracts. Very different reasons, and are things Tivo is not used to having to deal with at all.

Who says I am not for fair competition. I love that Tivo is out there and in the real world. I don't want to see tivo go under ever. I hope they continue to make better and better products, just as I hope Directv, Dish, and everyone else does as well. More competition and better offerings is good for everyone. I just think its sad people think Directv is the one here that's holding back the tivo, when tivo has proved that time and again the number one thing that keeps their progress slow and their lack of certain achievements is themselves.

Replaytv just didn't have the money backing to survive, period. Had nothing to do with the commercial skipping... Their backers felt they could do it all with technology, in terms of gaining market share, where as you need to have both technology and marketing to gain market share. Tivo was brilliantly marketed. They took the bose approach. Doesn't matter what tech you use, you have to market the heck out of it, and people will buy it because it will be perceived as being better, even if its the same or not as good. Although Tivo is also a lot better than a lot of other offerings out there (unlike bose), so they have that going for them as well.

The only baseline that Tivo set for Directv DVRs is the general concept of dvrs and how they operate in the first place. But that was really done by both replaytv and tivo when they first launched and hit the market anyway. I think Directv actually took more of Ultiumate tvs design philosophy than they did tivos, and it has worked very well for them overall, after some initial really big bumps. Tivo just refuses to play by the same rules Directvs dvrs play by, and therefore they lack many things they should have that Directv DVRS do, most notably, WHDVR. I see no reason why Directv would ever stop them from integrating WHDVR so that a tivo could see the playlist of a directv dvr, and vise vera, but I seriously doubt Tivo would want to spend the time or money to do that.

Here's a simple question. If the new directv tivo is built on premiere, and has all these other features that simply need to be turned on, then why on earth isn't pandora and youtube on them? There is no way Direct would tell them they can't have those two things right now today. I just don't think any of it is in there. I believe they had to rebuild from the ground up almost to make this new product happen, and that it was a lot harder than they thought it would be.

I am interested to see in a year or two how and what all the new Premiere system with a four tuner box and clients is working for them. If I where them, I wouldn't bother touching the THR22 as I would want access to the hr34 platform to move that platform of theirs over to. That would be very intriguing.

This is way to long of a post.. :)

Edited by inkahauts, 07 July 2012 - 08:14 PM.


#39 OFFLINE   codespy

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:44 PM

..................This is way to long of a post.. :)


That post was longer than my longest book report back in high school. Waaaaay too many words. :)

#40 OFFLINE   Wezel

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:44 PM

Is there not ads still on those machines you can access via the menu? Also don't they load pushed ppv movies to the tivos as well? Thats usually what the enhanced content is.


Since those are things I'm not at all interested in I can now understand why I never see them...and won't see them.

Hey TiVo/DirecTV...Give the THR22 folks the ability to decline "Enhanced Content" or put in back to 2:00am like it was for my SD TiVo's! It screws up our use of the two tuners!
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