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Guest Message by DevFuse

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How many of you with Directv think Dish is getting better than Directv


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682 replies to this topic

#221 OFFLINE   cmich

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:57 PM

Dish is a cheap alternative to cable but is getting a little better....i dont think it should try to be more than it is...if you want the Cadillac of television, get DirecTV...they offer the most features and are still cheaper than cable.

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#222 OFFLINE   Red Orc

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:16 AM

I've posted this here before, but figure it's worth repeating.
Everyone should investigate their options.
If you can get a 30 day free test drive, try it.
You'll have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
U-verse knocked on my door a few weeks ago and set me up with a 30 day trial.
Since DirecTV's sports packages aren't interesting to me, U-who looked to have similar programing. Even after any discounted pricing, they look to have a package that would save me $20/month too AND I'd have another premium movie package too. Quite tempting at first.
Two weeks of playing with their system, shows me why I'll be staying with DirecTV, and their stuff is on the way out of here.

Someone else may find the things I hate, don't bother them, so it would be a good deal.

TV watching should be enjoyable, and if yours isn't, you should make a change to find one that is.

There is no "one service is the best for everyone". Your mileage Will vary.



What was it about uVerse that you didn't like? I doubt if it will ever be available where I live but you never know.

#223 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:35 AM

The biggest complaint I've seen is the limited number of HD streams.

#224 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:51 AM

The biggest complaint I've seen is the limited number of HD streams.

I've got the highest "profile", which is 3 HD recordings, + 1 HD to watch.
Might be a limitation with more than one viewer, but with the east/west channels they have, and a bit of juggling of series link times/channels, I don't think this would be a problem for me. I rarely record four shows at the same time, so the 3 recording limit would work.
A.K.A VOS

#225 OFFLINE   Jodean

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:26 AM

According to a mod in the dish area, your numbers are wrong. It's about 2 gigs an hour on their hard drives, and I know DirecTV is about 4 gigs an hour.

And there is no way a 500 gig hard drive would only hold 60 hours of programing, unless it's mpeg2. Maybe you are looking at specs based on meg 2 recordings...


My numbers are indeed NOT wrong.

My 722 when empty says available record time for HD is 60 hours.

And the HR24 does indeed hold 100 hours of HD

While im not stating any 2 gigs or 4 gigs per hour and compressed or not, I just know my numbers are correct.

#226 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:32 AM

My numbers are indeed NOT wrong.

My 722 when empty says available record time for HD is 60 hours.

And the HR24 does indeed hold 100 hours of HD

While im not stating any 2 gigs or 4 gigs per hour and compressed or not, I just know my numbers are correct.

I'm not going to doubt what you're seeing.
I will say though, it isn't the whole picture.
60 hours of Dish HD will only take up about 120"ish" GB, so that just isn't much for a DVR these days, with MPEG-4.
A.K.A VOS

#227 OFFLINE   Jodean

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:33 AM

Not to pile on here too, "but" just got a PM confirming the 1440 x 1080 for 1080i is still being done by Dish, so there's another "myth", that isn't.
Dish is reducing resolution by 25%.


There is alot more into it than just pixels and compression numbers. I spent one entire day reading about this hype.

One of the wiki things that you claim is always right says something about directv sending HD in 1280x1080 resolution.

While these are just specs, compression using MPEG4 basically compresses the resolution and re inflates it at the receivers, so it really doesnt matter what spec is pushed up to the sat, and back down, the real resolution is what is coming out after the MPEG4 decompression which these numbers dont provide that answer.

And dish definitely not reducing the pq by 25%

Both providers have the signal compressed then uncompressed. They are both reducing resolution.

#228 OFFLINE   Jodean

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:37 AM

I'm not going to doubt what you're seeing.
I will say though, it isn't the whole picture.
60 hours of Dish HD will only take up about 120"ish" GB, so that just isn't much for a DVR these days, with MPEG-4.


I agree, that is completely stupid, why cant i use the rest of my hard drive?? But ya i can only get 60 hours, i have mine full now, its actuall less than 60 hours i have some OTA HD on it.

The 2gb per hour is correct though, my external drive claims up 4.5 gb for a 2 hour movie

I have nothing to confirm directv 4gb per hour, or if they compress before its saved. Dont forget formatting usually uses about 10% of the drive

#229 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

Both providers have the signal compressed then uncompressed. They are both reducing resolution.


Two totally different things. Even Blu Rays are compressed. But Directv, while using the same compression as the others, is not reducing the resolution like Dish does.

Once the resolution is reduced, you can not recover it. If you could, they wouldnt need two separate feeds.

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#230 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

There is alot more into it than just pixels and compression numbers. I spent one entire day reading about this hype.

One of the wiki things that you claim is always right says something about directv sending HD in 1280x1080 resolution.

While these are just specs, compression using MPEG4 basically compresses the resolution and re inflates it at the receivers, so it really doesnt matter what spec is pushed up to the sat, and back down, the real resolution is what is coming out after the MPEG4 decompression which these numbers dont provide that answer.

And dish definitely not reducing the pq by 25%

Both providers have the signal compressed then uncompressed. They are both reducing resolution.

You need to look more into it.
The old MPEG-2 DirecTV HD was reduced to 1280x1080, and then averaged in the receiver back to 1920x1080.
When DirecTV moved to MPEG-4, someone was able to read the header information in the feed, which is where the real info comes from. This was how the old 1280x1080 came from.
The MPEG-4 header shows it is 1920x1080.
The same header information can be [and has been] read from the Dish header information and still shows it to be 1440x 1088. You could read this off your hard drive in the 722 too I've been told by someone who is doing these measurements.
The next part of "compression" is just like a digital JPEG. You can save it with a large file size, or you can compress the hell out of it and have a small file size, but it looks like crap.
There is always a balance of how to remove bits [information] and how good/bad the image looks doing so. Removing 1 pixel every 3 or 4, makes averaging it back in not very noticeable, where increasing the pixel bock size [the jpeg way] does.
A.K.A VOS

#231 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:51 AM

I have nothing to confirm directv 4gb per hour.

I do which has helped me to get/verify some of these "numbers".
DirecTV2PC will stream the file straight from the drive and I have software than reads the router ports bit-rates over time.
A.K.A VOS

#232 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:55 AM

Once the resolution is reduced, you can not recover it.

True, but the receivers do a fairly good job of averaging it back in. It may soften the edges in some cases, but if the pixels on either side of the missing pixel are the same or very similar, then the averaged [created] pixel is going to be darn close to what was removed.
A.K.A VOS

#233 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:58 AM

Dont forget formatting usually uses about 10% of the drive

The earliest HR20 had a 300 GB drive, with the same 100 GB the user can't use. 30 hours of MPEG-2 HD [OTA], or 50 hours MPEG-4 HD, were the "specs".
A.K.A VOS

#234 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

True, but the receivers do a fairly good job of averaging it back in. It may soften the edges in some cases, but if the pixels on either side of the missing pixel are the same or very similar, then the averaged [created] pixel is going to be darn close to what was removed.


Which is why the E* picture is technically inferior, but in viewing it isn't discernible by most users, or if it is, it is noted as being a slight bit different but not necessarily better.

I have a good plasma TV that makes both D* and E* look wonderful in HD. E* SD holds up really good too, especially on the Eastern Arc. D* SD OTOH, is deplorable, but can be somewhat improved by letting my TV do the conversion vice the HR by using Native On. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I calibrated my plasma soon after buying it.

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#235 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:32 AM

Which is why the E* picture is technically inferior, but in viewing it isn't discernible by most users, or if it is, it is noted as being a slight bit different but not necessarily better.

I have a good plasma TV that makes both D* and E* look wonderful in HD. E* SD holds up really good too, especially on the Eastern Arc. D* SD OTOH, is deplorable, but can be somewhat improved by letting my TV do the conversion vice the HR by using Native On. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I calibrated my plasma soon after buying it.

Most, if not "all of this" comes down to the viewer's perception.
My Sony XBR can zoom a 16:9 SD [boxed on all edges] channel to full screen and "not look bad" off DirecTV. It ain't HD, but it looks much better than the HR "crop" format does, and with my Vizio, not much of anything really "looks good". :lol:
A.K.A VOS

#236 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:37 AM

Most, if not "all of this" comes down to the viewer's perception.
My Sony XBR can zoom a 16:9 SD [boxed on all edges] channel to full screen and "not look bad" off DirecTV. It ain't HD, but it looks much better than the HR "crop" format does, and with my Vizio, not much of anything really "looks good". :lol:


I haven't tried that 'zoom' method, I'll give it a try. Maybe I won't think Doctor Who pictures sucks so much! :)

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#237 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:45 AM

I haven't tried that 'zoom' method, I'll give it a try. Maybe I won't think Doctor Who pictures sucks so much! :)

You might want to pull them off of On Demand.
The SD SAT feeds reduce the resolution to 480x480, and they don't use all of that in letterbox, so you've got so little to start with.
The On demand seems to be the unaltered version. I noticed this with Top Gear and The Hour from BBCA. The On demand programs were longer because they hadn't been edited for commercials. "The Hour" over the SAT was 45 mins of programing, but was an one hour show.
A.K.A VOS

#238 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:50 AM

I'll try that too.

letting the TV do the growing didn't improve the picture :(

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#239 OFFLINE   gfrang

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:33 PM

I have tried every way of zooming,now it is native on original format and i will never change it again,well for now anyway.

#240 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:47 PM

You might want to pull them off of On Demand.
The SD SAT feeds reduce the resolution to 480x480, and they don't use all of that in letterbox, so you've got so little to start with.
The On demand seems to be the unaltered version. I noticed this with Top Gear and The Hour from BBCA. The On demand programs were longer because they hadn't been edited for commercials. "The Hour" over the SAT was 45 mins of programing, but was an one hour show.

Some of them went to 352x480 ...




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