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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Quick help needed! Power Center died


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40 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:21 AM

My Monster Power Center 3600 mkII died a sudden death this morning. Since spending $$$ on that unit I have retired and cannot afford a comparable replacement.

I am considering just a good surge protector such as this Belkin from Home Depot - http://www.homedepot...1&storeId=10051

What is your opinion/recommendation?

We have frequent lighting here in North Texas.

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#2 ONLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:25 AM

Get a UPS.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#3 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:32 AM

Get a UPS.


Please help me better understand your recommendation. Why a UPS? Does it provide the necessary surge protection in addition to contined power? Our powe failures are basically short. What UPS do you recommend?

Thanks.

#4 ONLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:50 AM

Please help me better understand your recommendation. Why a UPS? Does it provide the necessary surge protection in addition to contined power? Our powe failures are basically short. What UPS do you recommend?

Thanks.


They do both. I have some CyberPower units I like, and APC also comes highly recommended. Here's mine: http://www.amazon.co...wms_ohs_product

I'm near Dallas and we had lighting hit our backyard a few months ago that fried one outlet my UPC was on. Everything was saved except my BluRays network connection.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#5 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:07 PM

Thanks for the data. We live in Desoto on top of a hill, one of the highest points in Dallas county.

#6 OFFLINE   John Williams

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:16 PM

The UPS will supply power to keep your DVR recording if you loose power during a show. It will also supply power for your disc players and other network devices if they are doing a firmware update (which shouldn't be interputed). The latter only does you any good if the internet modem is on a UPS as well.

Besides that however, most UPS do not have very good surge protection (unless you're spending some big bucks on a higher end model). There is maintenance involved (replacing batteries every 3-5 years), etc...

Based on your needs you stated, I would NOT recommend a UPS.

The surge protector you linked to at Home Depot is marginal at best. The question becomes how well do you want to protect your equipment? You already stated you get a lot of lighting where you are.
I would recommend one of the following brands for a point of use protector: Panamax, Furman, APC (thier higher line), SurgeX, Ditek, Zero Surge, Tripplite (higher ISO line), and 1-2 other brands I can't think of right now.
Notice I did not have Monster listed in there. Sorry but Monster just is NOT a good value in protectors. There highend models ($1K+) are good protectors, just not for the price.

Also, consider looking at getting a whole house protector. This is a good 1st line of defense for your home and help protect everything in it (Appliances, large motor devices like HVAC, etc...). This is not a replacement for a point of use protector on sensitive electronic equipment however - don't be confused by the 2.

#7 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:52 PM

Besides that however, most UPS do not have very good surge protection (unless you're spending some big bucks on a higher end model).

The only reason not to get a UPS is if you live where hydroelectric or nuclear power are the main sources of power.

UPSes that cost at least as much as comparable surge suppressors sink the spikes just fine and better ones offer voltage regulation that no surge suppressor can.

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#8 OFFLINE   John Williams

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:19 PM

The only reason not to get a UPS is if you live where hydroelectric or nuclear power are the main sources of power.

UPSes that cost at least as much as comparable surge suppressors sink the spikes just fine and better ones offer voltage regulation that no surge suppressor can.


I can tell you from experience that is just not true.
A UPS is an electronic device just like a lot of equipment. As such, it can be damaged from spikes just like equipment if not protected well. Most inexpensive UPS units do not have good protection. Guess what happens when they take a strike. Maybe your equipment survived, maybe the UPS even survived. The point is, you're paying money for a battery backup 1st. If it's a cheap unit, it rarely has a good protection circuit (much like that Belkin unit linked to above).
A UPS at the same price as a straight surge protector will NOT have the same protection. It can't! Is the manufacture giving away the surge circuit for free? I don't think so.

Only people living in certain parts of the country are ever going to run into this or experience this for themsleves. People living in Fl or here near FL. And a few other select locations around the country that experience high volume of lighting strikes a year. Everyone else is living in blessful ignorance until 1 day they get an actual lighting strike (which may even never happen to them, bless their souls).

Oh. Yes there are straight surge protectors that do voltage regulation. Actually, a lot of highend ones do. But that seems to be outside the original poster's budget. Also, what's important is the protector's ability to disconnect power to the equipment when power is above or below what it should. And not reconnect until voltage is stable again for a preset amount of time. Again, not something a cheap surge protector does.

#9 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:35 PM

I agree with John. I have a Panamax surge protector on my family room HT system and an APC on the HT system in my bedroom.

Charlie
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Family Room: Sony KDFE-55A20 55" LCD RPTV; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVoRoamio Plus, LG BH200 HD DVD/Blu-ray player via HDMI to AVR
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#10 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:18 PM

Thanks to everyone for your advice and comments.

After considering all options I have a Panamax M4300-PM 9 Outlet Rack Mountable Power Conditioner/Surge Protector*on order.

:D

#11 OFFLINE   John Williams

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:20 PM

After considering all options I have a Panamax M4300-PM 9 Outlet Rack Mountable Power Conditioner/Surge Protector*on order.

:D

One thing you might want to look at on that brand, is if there is a local dealer near you. Under warranty, Panamax will send the dealer a brand new unit for the old one they send in. So when I have a customer take a hit that knocks one out, I go out and swap it for them; knowing I'll get a new one in return from the manufacture. That doesn't mean every dealer will do that for thier customer but you can ask.
Also, make absolutely sure you buy from an authorized dealer. Panamax has it listed right on the front page of the website:
"WARRANTY NOTICE! Panamax products purchased online do not carry a valid product warranty unless purchased from an Authorized Panamax Internet Dealer."
If the place isn't authorized you will have NO warranty.

#12 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:29 PM

One thing you might want to look at on that brand, is if there is a local dealer near you. Under warranty, Panamax will send the dealer a brand new unit for the old one they send in. So when I have a customer take a hit that knocks one out, I go out and swap it for them; knowing I'll get a new one in return from the manufacture. That doesn't mean every dealer will do that for thier customer but you can ask.
Also, make absolutely sure you buy from an authorized dealer. Panamax has it listed right on the front page of the website:
"WARRANTY NOTICE! Panamax products purchased online do not carry a valid product warranty unless purchased from an Authorized Panamax Internet Dealer."
If the place isn't authorized you will have NO warranty.


Thanks for the info. I ordered my Panamax from Best Buy.

#13 OFFLINE   kc1ih

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:54 PM

The only reason not to get a UPS is if you live where hydroelectric or nuclear power are the main sources of power.


Why would that make a difference? I think it makes a difference is if your power comes from overhead lines or underground lines.

#14 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:10 AM

Our power comes from underground lines.

#15 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 03:42 PM

Thanks to everyone for your advice and comments.

After considering all options I have a Panamax M4300-PM 9 Outlet Rack Mountable Power Conditioner/Surge Protector*on order.

:D


OK, what the h*** did you pay for that "monster" set up? $234.oo is not exactly a cheap date, LOL.

So, I am exposed to brownouts, which are pretty serious for electronic equipment. Right now I'm using a new cyberpower "smartstrip" which is realy cool, shuts everthing down behind the master plug like it should, got it from our local electricity provider as a promo. But I know somewhere in my head, it just a standard surge suppressor.

So, 2 questions to John, [who I am guessing is in the business:] AND anyone out there with more knowledge than I.[ that would be alot,lol]

1. I kinda like tripplite, their CSR's are quick to reply any questions you have, Web site very easy to navigate. But if you had to pick a surge supressor, which [ inexpensive one] is the best for the $ ? I'm on a tight budget as well.
2. If you shut off a suppressor at the switch, does that cut power to anything plugged into it? Meaning, no power, no power spikes? I've had this conversation before, and the general idea is throwing the switch reduces problems with brownouts. True or false?

#16 OFFLINE   John Williams

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:31 PM

1. I kinda like tripplite, their CSR's are quick to reply any questions you have, Web site very easy to navigate. But if you had to pick a surge supressor, which [ inexpensive one] is the best for the $ ? I'm on a tight budget as well.
2. If you shut off a suppressor at the switch, does that cut power to anything plugged into it? Meaning, no power, no power spikes? I've had this conversation before, and the general idea is throwing the switch reduces problems with brownouts. True or false?


1) I have used many Tripplite products and most seem to be good. The ISO series is what you want to be looking at for surge protection (it's a real protector).
I can't recommend thier UPS however. The 3 different models that I tried all had issues. Within 2-3 years the batteries went bad, when I pulled them out they were swollen ready to explode (thou none did). Upon closer inspection, I noticed the design has the main power supply transformer right up against the batteries - it gets real hot. This most certainly caused the problem with the batteries (piss poor design).
I have always used APC for cheap to expensive UPS setups. I have had a few fail on me in the last few years however, seems no one can make a quality UPS anymore. Have installed 3-4 Cyberpower units (customer purchased), 2 went bad within 2 years. Seen a lot of stuff get damged on cheap products over the years.
Always been happy with all the Panamax, Furman, and Ditek units I've sold over the years. They have UPS units as well but pricey.

2) This depends on the design of the product. A lot of surge equipment that has switches, have banks of outlets. Some banks are always hot, some switched, some switched with delay.
Brownouts are a special case that you really need to look closely at the surge protector you buy. ANY cheap surge device is going to have problems with brownouts. A good surge device will cut power when voltage goes below a certain point (usually around 95VAC).
If you have a lot of brownouts due to the power company, then a UPS is certainly a recommend.

#17 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:15 PM

1) I have used many Tripplite products and most seem to be good. The ISO series is what you want to be looking at for surge protection (it's a real protector).
I can't recommend thier UPS however. The 3 different models that I tried all had issues. Within 2-3 years the batteries went bad, when I pulled them out they were swollen ready to explode (thou none did). Upon closer inspection, I noticed the design has the main power supply transformer right up against the batteries - it gets real hot. This most certainly caused the problem with the batteries (piss poor design).

Sorry to hear that. Did you address that problem with the company?

I have always used APC for cheap to expensive UPS setups. I have had a few fail on me in the last few years however, seems no one can make a quality UPS anymore. Have installed 3-4 Cyberpower units (customer purchased), 2 went bad within 2 years. Seen a lot of stuff get damged on cheap products over the years.
Always been happy with all the Panamax, Furman, and Ditek units I've sold over the years. They have UPS units as well but pricey.

2) This depends on the design of the product. A lot of surge equipment that has switches, have banks of outlets. Some banks are always hot, some switched, some switched with delay.
Brownouts are a special case that you really need to look closely at the surge protector you buy. ANY cheap surge device is going to have problems with brownouts. A good surge device will cut power when voltage goes below a certain point (usually around 95VAC).
If you have a lot of brownouts due to the power company, then a UPS is certainly a recommend.


OK, but I thought a UPS is used more for computers? So you don't lose data, etc..
I'm guessing a good surge suppressor would be what I need for my new tv and audio video equipment, correct?
I could also use a good SS on my computer as well? I'm realy more concerned about the electronics getting fried more than anything.

OK, I found a ditek 8 outlet surge strip for 20$ If there is something better, I need a link, as they make alot of stuff! [ that I'm not familiar with]

thanks john

One more thing, does ISO for tripplite stand for Isobar? Because that's what I found at the provantage web site.

Edited by satcrazy, 08 March 2012 - 09:33 PM.


#18 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:35 PM

The only reason not to get a UPS is if you live where hydroelectric or nuclear power are the main sources of power.

UPSes that cost at least as much as comparable surge suppressors sink the spikes just fine and better ones offer voltage regulation that no surge suppressor can.


what is your recommendation?

#19 OFFLINE   John Williams

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 12:55 PM

OK, but I thought a UPS is used more for computers? So you don't lose data, etc..
I'm guessing a good surge suppressor would be what I need for my new tv and audio video equipment, correct?
I could also use a good SS on my computer as well? I'm realy more concerned about the electronics getting fried more than anything.

OK, I found a ditek 8 outlet surge strip for 20$ If there is something better, I need a link, as they make alot of stuff! [ that I'm not familiar with]

thanks john

One more thing, does ISO for tripplite stand for Isobar? Because that's what I found at the provantage web site.


On Tripplite, it would be the Isobar.

For $20, you're not going to get good A/C protection. I guess I should have pointed out that Ditek has some "power strips" that say surge protection, but don't really do much. As a rule, if the device you're looking at doesn't retail for more than $50, then you probably are not getting much of a protector.
Even Panamax has some protectors that retail for less than $35, I won't use them. If you notice those protectors also don't have thier "protect or disconnect" feature. Which is what will disconnect power in case of a brownout situation.

UPS = Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, a UPS is good for DVR's to keep them recording so you don't lose your show. It's good for keeping power to a device that may be installing firmware - in the off chance that happens, corrupted firmware can brick a device. It's also good for projection devices (LCoS, DLP, etc...) that loose power when they are on - the cooling fan needs to run for at least a minute or two after the lamp turns off; if not, this can shorten the life of the lamp considerably. It's good for computers so a power failure doesn't cause you to lose data or corrupt the OS system. And lastly: if you have very bad power in your area, a UPS can keep your equipment from continually being rebooted all day. Which could get very annoying.

#20 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:39 PM

Thank you.




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