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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DirecTV planning for Ultra-HD


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140 replies to this topic

#21 ONLINE   Steve

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:23 PM

Not sure what my glasses bring my eye sight up to, but I can tell the difference between 480p and 720p from about 10 feet away. Haven't really looked up close at 1080p yet, but will probably try it now.

Just to be clear (no pun intended :P), I was referring to the same HD source content viewed from 10' away on a calibrated 42" 1080p display sitting next to a calibrated 42" 480p display, as opposed to, e.g., viewing the same DirecTV HD vs. SD channel on the same 1080 display.
/steve

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#22 OFFLINE   Herdfan

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:41 PM

Yes, they can. The difference wasn't night and day when I saw 4K, but it was distinguishable from 1080p.

And screen size doesn't matter, it's the screen size vs seating distance ratio that matters.


I understand the viewing distance part. But in my media room at 10-12', would someone be able to tell the difference on my 70" display?

PS. Size always matters. ;) :lol:

#23 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:48 PM

You have to wonder if DIRECTV is really committed to getting rid of Ku long-term. This part of the statement makes me suspicious of other information offered.

The fact that nobody ever seems to pin down what flavor of 4K they're talking about leaves me wondering if they're even on the same page.

I think it is more likely that DIRECTV will ultimately drop Ka in favor of Ku and RDBS that would seem to bring lower power requirements and better atmospheric penetration. They may want to keep Ka for LIL, but Ka doesn't seem like the right tool for CONUS.


I agree with you. Ku or Ka really doesn't determine if UHD is possible. It's more like transponder bandwidth and most importantly, the encoding / compression used. If anything Ku would allow them to use higher order modulation like 8PSK and lower error correction.

As far as DVRing it, maybe in 5 years the price of SSD's will be more consumer friendly along with a higher storage capacity.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Ovation, Reelz , Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

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#24 OFFLINE   mreposter

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:56 PM

Embracing new technology is great, but when D14 shows up and most of it's bandwidth gets chewed up by the huge data streams to support UHD, it'll be really frustrating to still be stuck with dozens of sucky SD channels.

But, yeah, it sounds cool ;)
..........
.......... There are none so blind as those who can not see it in HD.
.......... Directv customer since January 2000.
..........

#25 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:57 PM

I understand the viewing distance part. But in my media room at 10-12', would someone be able to tell the difference on my 70" display?


Probably not. At 10' away on a 70" screen, you're not even getting the full benefit of 1080p.

If you moved up to 7.5', then yes, you'd start to see the benefit of 4K.

I wouldn't see the benefit of 4K in my living room either, but in my theater where I sit 12.5' away from my 126" display, 4K would be very noticeable.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#26 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:03 PM

How about they concentrate on going from 480 lines to 1080 before making the leap to 4000?

#27 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:14 PM

I agree with you. Ku or Ka really doesn't determine if UHD is possible. It's more like transponder bandwidth and most importantly, the encoding / compression used. If anything Ku would allow them to use higher order modulation like 8PSK and lower error correction.

DIRECTV is running fewer and wider transponders with Ka but the yield is relatively low if they can only fit 5-6 channels in 36MHz. Looking at what they're doing on 119W, they have seven HD channels set up (only two are active) on transponder 23 which is only 24MHz wide.

As far as DVRing it, maybe in 5 years the price of SSD's will be more consumer friendly along with a higher storage capacity.

The larger the files, the more grass that will be trampled on the SSD by each one. I don't think SSD is going to replace magnetic storage for DVR use.

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#28 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:21 PM

Just to be clear (no pun intended :P), I was referring to the same HD source content viewed from 10' away on a calibrated 42" 1080p display sitting next to a calibrated 42" 480p display, as opposed to, e.g., viewing the same DirecTV HD vs. SD channel on the same 1080 display.


I wasn't planning on letting you live down your earlier statement, but I'll give you a little slack based on your clarification above, even though I could still see the difference.

I have an HR24-100 connected to a 20-inch SDTV. Not a great comparison, but I used to have an HR24-100 and TiVo Series 3 connected to a 50-inch SDTV, as well as an Hughes HTL-HD receiver and HR10-250 connected to a 30-inch FP widescreen SDTV. When connected to high quality sources, the picture was impressive. However, any focusing on the differences would reveal the massive differences... particularly in the areas of depth and color reproductions.

However, the fact that the differences are even comparable is due to the fact that they both started with a GREAT source. Good quality DirecTV HD or OTA was far superior to HD-LITE, and Blu-ray was far superior to DirecTV HD and OTA. I strongly suspect that Ultra-HD sources downconverted to HDTVs will look superior to the current 1920x1080 feeds.

On the other hand, it has been said that current 1920x1080 feeds will look far superior when viewed on Ultra-HDTVs.

I understand the viewing distance part. But in my media room at 10-12', would someone be able to tell the difference on my 70" display?


Depends on the person. Some people can't tell the difference between DVDs and Blu-ray. Some can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080i/p. The technology will be there, but it will be dependent upon the abilities of the person viewing it.

~Alan

#29 OFFLINE   David Ortiz

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:27 PM

Yes, they can. The difference wasn't night and day when I saw 4K, but it was distinguishable from 1080p.

And screen size doesn't matter, it's the screen size vs seating distance ratio that matters.


If you have a 150" screen, the image is going to look a lot better if the source is 4K. There is only so much enlargement 1920x1080 can take before it falls apart.

#30 ONLINE   Steve

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:45 PM

I have an HR24-100 connected to a 20-inch SDTV. Not a great comparison, but I used to have an HR24-100 and TiVo Series 3 connected to a 50-inch SDTV, as well as an Hughes HTL-HD receiver and HR10-250 connected to a 30-inch FP widescreen SDTV. When connected to high quality sources, the picture was impressive. However, any focusing on the differences would reveal the massive differences... particularly in the areas of depth and color reproductions.

It may have to do with the type of display as well, because what you're describing above is not the case with my calibrated Panny 480p ED plasma. With HD source material, the differences were subtle, at best, from ~ 10 feet away.

FWIW, I think this is a pretty good take on when 1080p resolution matters. It includes a nifty chart that's helpful (IMHO) calculating what screen sizes and resolutions are optimal for given viewing distances.
/steve

#31 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:18 PM

+1. I've got 20/20 vision, and I can't tell the difference between a well-calibrated 480p ED display and a calibrated 1080p HD display from normal viewing distances, sitting 8'-10' away.


Haha...now that is some funny BS!
DTV = Digital Television

#32 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:25 PM

Really don't understand this:

In four or five years, our Ku-band [transmissions] could end.

Why would they want to give up 32 transponders in prime real estate?

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#33 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:25 PM

FWIW, I think this is a pretty good take on when 1080p resolution matters. It includes a nifty chart that's helpful (IMHO) calculating what screen sizes and resolutions are optimal for given viewing distances.


You used the word optimal... I can't argue either way with that.

However, they are not "equivalent."

~Alan

#34 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:30 PM

Really don't understand this:

Why would they want to give up 32 transponders in prime real estate?


I don't think FCC allocations expire unless a broadcaster cease using them. So maybe they are considering bargaining, trading or leasing to other providers in exchange for more bandwidth in another segment of spectrum?

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#35 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:36 PM

Really don't understand this:

Why would they want to give up 32 transponders in prime real estate?


can they use the KU band for mpeg 4? or is it cheapter to just put a new KA sat in the KU place?
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#36 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:37 PM

can they use the KU band for mpeg 4? or is it cheapter to just put a new KA sat in the KU place?


The compression used has nothing to do with the band used. There is mpeg4 currently on C band, KU band, and KA band from various companies.

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#37 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:47 PM

can they use the KU band for mpeg 4? or is it cheapter to just put a new KA sat in the KU place?


The satellites don't care what it is, it's just 0's and 1's to them.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#38 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:56 PM

can they use the KU band for mpeg 4? or is it cheapter to just put a new KA sat in the KU place?


The compression used has nothing to do with the band used. There is mpeg4 currently on C band, KU band, and KA band from various companies.


The satellites don't care what it is, it's just 0's and 1's to them.


Yep.

And furthermore, Directv has to have a direct-to-home license for whatever bandwidth they use. For instance, right now they broadcast Ku from 101. The also broadcast Ka from 101, but only to and from their own uplink facilities, as "backhaul" feeds. So far as I know (but I haven't looked lately), they do not have a license for Ka to the home from 101.

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#39 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:56 PM

It's just a PR buzz to raise attention to the company ...

#40 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:59 PM

If you have a 150" screen, the image is going to look a lot better if the source is 4K. There is only so much enlargement 1920x1080 can take before it falls apart.


Your missing the point. 4K on a 150" screen from 20' away is not going to look better than 1080p, because at that distance the "eye" isn't even getting the full benefit of 1080p.

4K on a 46" display from 3', however, will look a lot better.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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