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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DirecTV planning for Ultra-HD


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140 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   David Ortiz

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:00 PM

I think the issue is more the KU sats will reach the end of their useful life. Without a replacement KU bird, you can't really do much. I think they'd have to be ordering a KU bird pretty quickly to make 5 years no?


D15 will have a Ku payload. http://www.spacenews...-directv15.html

Are you having issues with the fact that 7680 isn't actually 8,000?! :confused:


Sharp doesn't have a problem with it!

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#62 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:06 PM

Sharp doesn't have a problem with it!


1,920 isn't exactly 2,000 either... ;)

I haven't ruled out the possibility that I'm too dense to understand what he's getting at, so if anyone else wants to help explain it to me, I'd love to understand. :)

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#63 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:13 PM

You are correct... I still don't understand your point...

Perhaps DirecTV is going to start with 4K, and perhaps move to 8K down the road. Are you having issues with the fact that 7680 isn't actually 8,000?! :confused:



Yeah... I expect a PPV channel or two, and perhaps an IMAX channel?!

~Alan

Why you still posting the meaningless numbers ?

I did ask you, and asking again - what is a source of your knowledge about 8K format. Just post an URL please.

#64 OFFLINE   evan_s

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:26 PM

I doubt they would give up their ku tps at 101. Sure they've got a fair amount of bandwidth at 99 and 103 with ka and are pursuing 97 for ka but ku does have some advantages and it is easier and cheaper to keep existing bandwidth than it is to get new bandwidth. I'd expect them to get rid of 110/119 ku long before they got rid of 101 ku.

Phasing out SD mpeg 2 transmissions will happen eventually I'm sure but for that even 5 years seems optimistic since I haven't heard of any signs of them moving that direction lately. The last thing I heard point that way was they stopped activating really old receivers with out RID on new accounts but they still offer sd receivers and dvrs on their website. A while back they seemed to be moving that way with the r22 and some of their plans in their investor calls but that seems to have been on hold since the economy went down. They have a lot of legacy hardware out there that would need to be replaced before they could phase mpeg 2 sd out completely and only provide mpeg 4 channels. With the bandwidth they have available in KA at 99 and 103 it just doesn't seem like they really need to spend the money to push the transition. They can do it a lot cheaper if they let things remove the old receivers naturally lowering the number they need to replace.

#65 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:40 PM

I did ask you, and asking again - what is a source of your knowledge about 8K format. Just post an URL please.


http://en.wikipedia....tion_Television

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#66 OFFLINE   David Ortiz

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:47 PM

http://en.wikipedia....tion_Television


and ... http://www.forbes.co...-hd-resolution/

#67 OFFLINE   mnassour

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:03 PM

Why should any of this matter? It'll be all sports, except for BBC America which will still be in 480. :shrug:

#68 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:09 PM

http://www.gizmowatc...s-turn-ces.html

7680 rounded up equals 8k
rounding up is pretty common
My comments and opinions are my own and not necessarily those of DirecTV.

#69 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:15 PM

Why should any of this matter? It'll be all sports, except for BBC America which will still be in 480. :shrug:


Believe it or not, some people watch sports.


And some people don't watch BBC.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#70 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:22 PM

Why you still posting the meaningless numbers ?


... because I don't understand your point, so apparently I misjudged numbers as meaningful... I don't know.

I did ask you, and asking again - what is a source of your knowledge about 8K format. Just post an URL please.


I've been reading about 8K for some time now, so I can't really post some links, but apparently fellow posters managed to find some links. I imagine Google would have quite a few links regarding the topic. I can't remember for sure, but I would believe the link I provided on page #1 about 4K probably has some mention of 8K format.

~Alan

#71 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:25 PM

Why should any of this matter? It'll be all sports, except for BBC America which will still be in 480. :shrug:


Believe it or not, some people watch sports.

And some people don't watch BBC.


Though I'm in the camp that watches BBC and has no interest in sports, I think spartanstew has a very good point. Personally, I think 4K ESPN would be pretty awesome... regardless of whether or not I'd watch it or have access to it.

However, I suspect channels with prerecorded content (PPV, HBO, Cinemax, Discovery, etc.) would go first prior to sports.

I'd also hope for the sake of DirecTV subscribers in the future that BBCA-HD would be in HD by then... :D

~Alan

#72 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:56 PM

... because I don't understand your point, so apparently I misjudged numbers as meaningful... I don't know.



I've been reading about 8K for some time now, so I can't really post some links, but apparently fellow posters managed to find some links. I imagine Google would have quite a few links regarding the topic. I can't remember for sure, but I would believe the link I provided on page #1 about 4K probably has some mention of 8K format.

~Alan


If you take same amount of time Googling, reading Wiki as did last day, you'll find 4K type, not 8k.
Perhaps you can't distinguish lines from horizontal resolution ?
Sorry, you are not qualified as valuable source, can't provide any reference, have no minimal understanding and just using the number "8000-line" without meaning as that DTV VP.

#73 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:59 PM

http://en.wikipedia....tion_Television


Then look at post#16.

Remember : lines is not horizontal resolution.

#74 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:00 PM

http://www.gizmowatc...s-turn-ces.html

7680 rounded up equals 8k
rounding up is pretty common


Same mistake.

We are talking about LINES.

#75 OFFLINE   MrWindows

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:17 AM

I went to the NAB show in Las Vegas last year, 3D was everywhere but already the manufacturers were saying in private that it was dead and wasn't going anywhere. Most were talking up 4K and a few were talking about CinemaWide 1080p. With most filmmakers shooting action-type films on RED or equivalent 4K cameras, it's a natural evolution to bring that down to the consumer level. It's already been in use in government applications (NASA, NSA, other TLO's). There were a few displays, and the depth of the picture was very impressive. If I remember correctly it was in Acer's booth that I saw my first 4K display, and it was across from Panasonic showing off their massive 16' 1080p screen. The specs from the HD working group already have 8K laid out and beyond. When talking about 4K and 8K, you have to take into account the RAW image specifications, which may include visual timing details. The RED ONE maximum RAW image size is 4480x2304. If you look closely at a live shoot for almost any television show or movie, on the director's screen you'll see several sets of white box outlines, which cues the director to what will show in 4x3, in 16x9, 21x9 and full frame formats. When people in the industry talk about 4K and 8K they are simply carrying through the lingo from the RAW formats that the material actually gets shot in, not the broadcast standards they will be displayed in, two different things entirely. UHD 4K exists, although broadcast standards have yet to be worked out. We are 4-8 years from 4K being ubiquitous. UHD 8K is being worked on, but anything beyond the experimental (or TLO usage) is probably 20 years away. Today I'd be much more interested in CinemaWideHD, which better captures the cinemawide frame movies, and is fairly compatible with existing production and broadcast standards. Alas, it appears to have been left as a niche product.

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#76 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:36 AM

@psmith....i kind of get your point but when lines become pixels and are discussed as resolution you have to leave that behind. Introducing interlaced and progressive scanning takes us into a different realm of terminology. You started this tangent by saying that whomever the DTV dude was... was referring to a fictional 8K resolution ...this is not fictional and from articles I have seen could be around by 2017. In my way of thinking, harping about lines in reference to a 7,680×4,320 frame size or resolution is like arguing that a 100 story skyscraper is just 40,000 I-beams...ya know?
My comments and opinions are my own and not necessarily those of DirecTV.

#77 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:50 AM

Perhaps you can't distinguish lines from horizontal resolution ?


In my defense, I did state that maybe I was being dense, and wasn't understanding what you were saying and asked you to explain it. The simple line above made me understand what you were getting at... and you are correct... either Philip Goswitz spoke incorrectly, or Chris Forrester quoted him wrong. Considering what Philip's job is, and the fact that he called out DirecTV executives for their lack of technical know-how, I hope it's the latter. Either way, I had a brain-fart and didn't catch it.

However, I still don't think...

It's just a PR buzz to raise attention to the company ...


... is an accurate statement. Sure, it's good PR, but we know 4K is coming. The manufacturers, studios, and broadcasters are working on it. 8K is farther off, but it's good to know DirecTV is thinking about it.

The HEVC codec is supposed to be finalized early next year, and the hope is that it will hit CE products late next year.

I'm not sure DirecTV will rush out with 4K content right away given the costs of TV sets and monitors, but as I said, it's coming. :)

~Alan

#78 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:57 AM

If you have a 150" screen, the image is going to look a lot better if the source is 4K. There is only so much enlargement 1920x1080 can take before it falls apart.

Since we both actually saw multiple 4K and 1 8K HDTVs at CES this year in person...and despite using 1080p content for all but 1 of those (there was one that used 4K original content for their demo)...I'd have to agree with you that the viewing experience on a huge screen in comparison to a 1080p HDTV was indeed obvious on a larger screen at times as you pointed out.

This is one of those things that a person would need a side-by-side comparison to appreciate. At one manufacturer booth (not the one in the photo), they did that...and honestly....even with 1080p original content...1080p looked significantly less crisp. In several others, the difference was less.

Overall, it was pretty apparent that once 4K original content becomes widespread...it has the potential to be more of an impact to the HDTV industry than 3D.

It's interesting to hear about how DirecTV is planning ahead for this next generation technology...even if it is 3+ years away to mainstream users.

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#79 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:31 AM

Well, if I'm evaluating a TV, I have a viewing distance in mind. I chose a 55" model because I thought that the 60" picture looked a little too blocky to me.


I just bought a 60" Panny plasma and you need to be about 11-12' from the TV to get the really good PQ. Not a problem in my home, but anyone who thinks viewing a TV that size or larger is gonna be great at six feet is gonna be disappointed. The Panny manuals do tell you what the minimum distance should be.

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#80 OFFLINE   RACJ2

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:17 AM

My personal opinion on the matter is, until they finish the HD rollout, with 100% HD for all channels, they should not waste money on it...

Although Ultra HD sounds interesting, that was my first thought.
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