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How to get >2Tb storage??


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211 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:20 PM

Speaking of capacity, if you're going to use an entire drive, is it advisable to leave a certain % unused? Also, as you have ten of 'em, would you advise any HDD manufacturers to stay away from - seems most people go with WD, but aren't there others that are well-suited for this type of application?


I try to keep mine about 50-60% full. I've got an HR24-500 that's got ~ 19% of capacity left. I'm just trying to see if the 24s suffer from the same problems the other HRs do when you fill them to 30% of capacity. But, I'm not even sure the other HRs still are susceptible to bogging down when the HDD reaches the 30-20% Available mark. Used to be, you got them that full and the HR would really slow down. That's why even a 1TB isn't enough for some of us. Doesn't matter the size of the HDD, just the percentage of capacity used matters (or used to).

That 24-500 shows no sign of bogging down BTW.

We've had so much good luck with the WD drives that it seems sensible to just keep on using them. Some members have installed Seagate 5400RPM HDDs in/on their HRs and they seem to be working well. Right now, I'd stick with the WDs.

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#52 OFFLINE   trstew

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:54 PM

Not knowing anything (even less than now!) a few weeks ago, I used 98% of my HR24-200's (Samsung?) internal capacity. I can't say as I noticed any difference between then and when it was 50%, but then I wasn't looking for any kind of slowdown...

#53 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:38 PM

Not knowing anything (even less than now!) a few weeks ago, I used 98% of my HR24-200's (Samsung?) internal capacity. I can't say as I noticed any difference between then and when it was 50%, but then I wasn't looking for any kind of slowdown...


The smaller(stock) drives dont seem to be affected as much as a larger drive. I suspect due to the size of the database/indexing etc, that would be much larger on larger drive. I didnt notice any slowdowns on a "fuller" drive until I went above a 1TB drive. I don't notice the slowdown near as much anymore, I suspect they have improved the efficiency of that code.

#54 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:38 AM

I have 2 of my 5 HR24-500s filled up to 80% and I can't see any Slowdown at all so I don't think it matters any more.

Rich and I used to experience this a couple of years ago on older Models but I haven't seen this at all on my HR24-500s or my 2 HR23-700s.
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#55 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:30 AM

Not knowing anything (even less than now!) a few weeks ago, I used 98% of my HR24-200's (Samsung?) internal capacity. I can't say as I noticed any difference between then and when it was 50%, but then I wasn't looking for any kind of slowdown...


As I said, I'm not sure if the 24s are subject to this "bogging down" effect when loading up the HDD. For all I know, none of the HRs do this anymore. Can't test that statement, don't have any HDDs other than my 500's that are over 50% full.

Rich

#56 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 06:00 PM

Now you could buy 4 TB drive(s) - Fry's has Hitachi for $289. :eek2: SATA, 7200 RPM, 64MB buffer, 6 Gbps interface speed.

#57 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:40 AM

Now you could buy 4 TB drive(s) - Fry's has Hitachi for $289. :eek2: SATA, 7200 RPM, 64MB buffer, 6 Gbps interface speed.


Well, it won't use any more than 2 TB as that is the Limitation that Directv has given us, am I correct?

I heard that is a Kernel Limitation but I remember you stated that it was something else, so could you expound on what how the Limitation is derived.

Also, I still have your External Drive Enclosure. I have just been busy and haven't gotten around to shipping it.

Will do it Soon!!! :D

By the way, I paid over $300 for the First 2 TB WD20EADS Drive offered by Western Digital.

What was I thinking. :lol:
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#58 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:55 AM

By the way, I paid over $300 for the First 2 TB WD20EADS Drive offered by Western Digital.

What was I thinking. :lol:

Well it sure wasn't an early bird special...that's for sure... :D

Just saw similar name-brand drives for , $120 at Fry's last week. :eek2:

The early bird gets the worm, while the patient bird gets the Caviar (yes, that's a pun). ;)

2TB is a ton of storage for sure. When it's multiplied in multiple HD DVRs, we call that a TV station library. :lol:
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#59 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:15 AM

The early bird gets the worm, while the patient bird gets the Caviar (yes, that's a pun). ;)

2TB is a ton of storage for sure. When it's multiplied in multiple HD DVRs, we call that a TV station library. :lol:


Well, that was back in April 2010 and I wanted it bad because I didn't want to get my brand new HR24-500 and Activate it and put Recordings on it and then install the 2 TB WD20EADS Drive and then lose those Recordings so I Bit the Bullet and paid a lot but I am glad I did.

All 5 of my HR24-500s work Flawlessly and Fast and maybe one of the reasons is that my Drives are Fast and have a Larger Cache to reduce the need for Paging which could be causing these other issues with those posters who Report Sluggishness as the CPU waits for data to act upon.
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#60 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:18 AM

2Tb is a standard Linux limitation, see http://www.webhostin..._than_2tb_linux You can create a partition size >2Tb with Linux using non-standard tools but I doubt that DirecTV would do that in a production system, see also http://www.unixgods....larger_2TB.html and many others.

#61 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:22 AM

So is it a Standard Kernel Limitation or another Limitation as I don't want to state it inaccurately but I am not a Linux Guru by any means. :lol:
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#62 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:46 AM

All 5 of my HR24-500s work Flawlessly and Fast and maybe one of the reasons is that my Drives are Fast and have a Larger Cache to reduce the need for Paging which could be causing these other issues with those posters who Report Sluggishness as the CPU waits for data to act upon.

The large drive size storage, 7200RPM availability, and larger Cache buffer are indeed all nice things.

2Tb is a standard Linux limitation, see http://www.webhostin..._than_2tb_linux You can create a partition size >2Tb with Linux using non-standard tools but I doubt that DirecTV would do that in a production system, see also http://www.unixgods....larger_2TB.html and many others.

So is it a Standard Kernel Limitation or another Limitation as I don't want to state it inaccurately but I am not a Linux Guru by any means. :lol:

In the simplist form...the DirecTV firmware uses the base Linux platform framework, which includes a 2TB maximum storage ceiling.
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#63 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:36 AM

Well, it won't use any more than 2 TB as that is the Limitation that Directv has given us, am I correct?

I'm doubtful that you could even short stroke a 4TB drive to make it work.

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#64 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:11 AM

In the simplist form...the DirecTV firmware uses the base Linux platform framework, which includes a 2TB maximum storage ceiling.

The "Linux platform framework" literally has no such limitations. Some filesystems implemented in Linux have volume limits in the Exabytes range (10^18). Windows is probably the only popular platform that implements only a few filesystems natively (FATs, NTFSes and a handful of optical disc filesystems).

DIRECTV chose to use the ext3 filesystem and that's where the limitation comes from.

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#65 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:17 AM

The "Linux platform framework" literally has no such limitations. Some filesystems implemented in Linux have volume limits in the Exabytes range (10^18). Windows is probably the only popular platform that implements only a few filesystems natively (FATs, NTFSes and a handful of optical disc filesystems).

DIRECTV chose to use the ext3 filesystem and that's where the limitation comes from.

Sorry...I only take information from DirecTV customers on this topic.

Many could directly counter your point based on a clear understanding of what words were specifically selected in the previous post, but it would be a waste of time to do so. Fact is there is one primary Linus framework used and subsets, and you, of course, chose a subset....just to have a reason to debate. Hook not swallowed.
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#66 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:31 AM

Sorry...I only take information from DirecTV customers on this topic.

Many could directly counter your point based on a clear understanding of what words were specifically selected in the previous post, but it would be a waste of time to do so. Fact is there is one primary Linus framework used and subsets, and you, of course, chose a subset....just to have a reason to debate. Hook not swallowed.


I cannot confirm nor deny that they used ext3 but if they in fact went with ext3, and a 1k block size, then <gulp> Harsh is right. There is a 2TB limitation with ext3 when using a 1k block size. If however they went with ext3 and used say a 2k block size then the limit would be 8TB.

And by the way ext3 is not a "subset" of Linux. It is a filesystem, one of many, used within Linux.
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#67 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:34 AM

The "Linux platform framework" literally has no such limitations. Some filesystems implemented in Linux have volume limits in the Exabytes range (10^18). Windows is probably the only popular platform that implements only a few filesystems natively (FATs, NTFSes and a handful of optical disc filesystems).

DIRECTV chose to use the ext3 filesystem and that's where the limitation comes from.

If you're gonna get nit-picky you should be a bit more factual. :grin:

While DIRECTV does use ext3 the limiting factor is 1k block size. Larger block sizes can yield larger partition sizes; up to a 32TB partition with a max file size of 2TB. :D

I don't have a clue why DIRECTV uses ext3 with a 2TB limit but none the less it's currently a hard a fast limit.

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#68 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:35 AM

While DIRECTV does use ext3 the limiting factor is 1k block size.


And there's our confirmation. Thanks Mike!
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#69 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:38 AM

And by the way ext3 is not a "subset" of Linux. It is a filesystem, one of many, used within Linux.

Thanks for the clarification. Subset was probably the wrong term on my part...variation was probably the right word. Much like formatting hard disks in general on various platforms, there are corresponding choices in block sizes.

In any case...the nit-picking would seem to be clarified now, and confirmation of 2TB limit confirmed.

Cool Beans.
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#70 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 12:05 PM

Well, it won't use any more than 2 TB as that is the Limitation that Directv has given us, am I correct?

I heard that is a Kernel Limitation but I remember you stated that it was something else, so could you expound on what how the Limitation is derived.
...


It is a limitation of IMPLEMENTATION.
Current version of Linux inside these DVRs is perfectly working with drives bigger then 2 TB. It would require use a couple other programs (already existing in the Linux) for support it: format, integrity check.
All of them utilize GPT style of partitioning.
No need to rewrite code, just need change a few scripts; file system support [EXT3+XFS] still the same, so all programs and the kernel will require no time/resources to adapt GPT and support drives bigger then 2 TB.

Implementing GPT does not require reformatting nor change block size.

Edited by P Smith, 29 April 2012 - 04:23 PM.


#71 OFFLINE   rsblaski

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

And there again is the great weakness of the HRs. We've been asking for any HR in an account to be able to read and play any HDD recorded by any HR in the same account for years and what do we get...Pandora?

Rich


Right. Something I'll never use instead of something I would always use.
Remember, when it comes to audio/video, more is always better. (This does NOT apply to remote controls!)

#72 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:08 PM

It is a limitation of IMPLEMENTATION.

Certainly true.

Then again...that can easily be cured by adding another HD DVR and doubling the storage. Once has to wonder just how many people are actually "restricted" with having "only" 2TB of storage.

It's likely a case of engineering to the user exceptions as opposed to the mainstream population.

2TB is alot of storage, unless a person wants to start a personal TV station-size video library/archive (Right Richie?) :D

So to answer the original OP question...the answer is get more than one HD DVR, at least until DirecTV decides there's a viable business reason to change the drive configuration.
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#73 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:15 PM

I don't see them changing from ext3, with 1k blocks, ever on the HR series that are out now. Can you just imagine the outcry of customers who's drives get reformatted?
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#74 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:23 PM

Certainly true.

Then again...that can easily be cured by adding another HD DVR and doubling the storage. Once has to wonder just how many people are actually "restricted" with having "only" 2TB of storage.

It's likely a case of engineering to the user exceptions as opposed to the mainstream population.

2TB is alot of storage, unless a person wants to start a personal TV station-size video library/archive (Right Richie?) :D

So to answer the original OP question...the answer is get more than one HD DVR, at least until DirecTV decides there's a viable business reason to change the drive configuration.

I find I need two DVRs to get around the recording conflicts caused by those 1-2 minute overlaps...I hate that.

However, you have a point. But, I do have a 2TB drive in my HR21. It's nice to not have to worry about how much free space there is. :D

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#75 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:27 PM

I find I need two DVRs to get around the recording conflicts caused by those 1-2 minute overlaps...I hate that.

However, you have a point. But, I do have a 2TB drive in my HR21. It's nice to not have to worry about how much free space there is. :D

Mike

Amateur. :lol:

You're right...that's alot.

We sometimes have to remind ourselves that those of us (me too) who have 2TB or more of storage probably make up <1% of the user population. We're spoiled to some degree.
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