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How to get >2Tb storage??


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211 replies to this topic

#151 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:18 PM

:confused: Why would they keep the 30 day limit if you're saving to backup? That'd make no sense.

It is how it works. There is a 30 limit on all transcoded/downloaded programs.

You can't use Nomad to archive recordings.

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#152 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:19 PM

Exactly! Fair Use Act only covers your usage of an original. If you're talking about a recording made by a DVR, which we are but I'm not sure you are, then you do NOT own an "original".


Technically, they are copies as CD, DVD, etc.

#153 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:43 PM

It is how it works. There is a 30 limit on all transcoded/downloaded programs.

You can't use Nomad to archive recordings.

Mike


I understand that's how it is now, but should they allow archiving as has been discussed here, it'd defeat the purpose of allowing nomad to do the extra stuff like putting in on a new HR.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#154 ONLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:27 PM

I'll let them know you said hello, including the part where you're wrong in what was said. :rolleyes:


Please do...
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#155 ONLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:30 PM

Technically, they are copies as CD, DVD, etc.


No, they aren't.

You can make copies if you OWN the original. A recording via DVR does NOT give you ownership.
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#156 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:56 PM

Nomad isn't but the client software is tied to your account. You have to use your DIRECTV website ID and password to use the client. Once the client talks to nomad, nomad then checks on the validity of the account.


It is how it works. There is a 30 limit on all transcoded/downloaded programs.

You can't use Nomad to archive recordings.

Yeah - what Mike said.

The DirecTV authentication process is tied to the account.

Please do...

Not sure why you're strangely turning things personal for some bizarre reason. Reporting on what has been publically stated and then blaming me for it not turning out is weird.

Let's move on to the topic at hand.
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#157 ONLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:16 PM

Yeah - what Mike said.

The DirecTV authentication process is tied to the account.

Not sure why you're strangely turning things personal for some bizarre reason. Reporting on what has been publically stated and then blaming me for it not turning out is weird.

Let's move on to the topic at hand.


I'm not blaming you for anything. Perhaps you're taking things too personally.
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#158 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:27 PM

I'm not blaming you for anything. Perhaps you're taking things too personally.

You turned things personal with your "blowing smoke" remark.

Let's move on and be productive please.
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#159 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:30 PM

A few weeks ago I hooked up 2Tb of external storage (WD HDD and Thermaltake enclosure) for my HR24. As I already only have 40% left, I'm wondering if I can expand my storage further without buying another 2Tb drive and enclosure and going thru the powerdown, swap, and bootup routine. Can a RAID enclosure with multiple drives be utilized, using the RAID controller to switch between the drives without going thru the old swap routine? In short, what are the alternatives to having to catalogue a collection of 2Tb drives?

So going back to the original question...the answer is...2TB is the current maximum hard drive capacity limit per DVR. Even with raid storage or larger drives, only 2TB per DVR can be utilized. The only current means to increase more overall capacity is via multiple DVRs with multiple hard drives.

This is one of the things that challenges the HR34 situation. If the hard drive goes on that unit (assuming there are no other DVRs), the household loses everything in terms of recorded content. Perhaps that helps motivate a solution for some form of account-based "backup" capability.
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#160 ONLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:58 PM

You turned things personal with your "blowing smoke" remark.

Let's move on and be productive please.


Again, nothing was personal. You're making it personal. If you want to make it personal take it to PM.
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#161 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:12 PM

There are about 3 different things being discussed here:

The 2 TB limit is kernel limited and while it could be updated, probably without any real issues, however DIRECTV has no reason to do so as they aren't putting HD's that large in machines.

Being able to archive a drive to save recordings when replacing a receiver. This could be possible depending on the failure of the unit if they added the function to make an image creator and loader into the OS. However this would require supporting external HDs officially.

Archiving programs for personal use which at this stage in the game isn't even on anyones radar. For every reason you want to do it the companies have not to do it. The bottom line is because it would negatively impact the bottom line.

#162 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:19 PM

There are about 3 different things being discussed here:

The 2 TB limit is kernel limited and while it could be updated, probably without any real issues, however DIRECTV has no reason to do so as they aren't putting HD's that large in machines.

Being able to archive a drive to save recordings when replacing a receiver. This could be possible depending on the failure of the unit if they added the function to make an image creator and loader into the OS. However this would require supporting external HDs officially.

Archiving programs for personal use which at this stage in the game isn't even on anyones radar. For every reason you want to do it the companies have not to do it. The bottom line is because it would negatively impact the bottom line.

Nice attempt to move away for real current implementation of archiving on EHD by a competitor. But not smart being an ostrich. :)

#163 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:22 PM

Nice attempt to move away for real current implementation of archiving on EHD by a competitor. But not smart being an ostrich. :)


I think you're reading into it too much.

#164 OFFLINE   Sunner73

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:19 AM

I have 3 DVRs whose Sole Purpose in Life is to Backup my 4 other DVRs. :D


It's unfortunate that you have to pay $6 each = $18 "every" month just to have the redundancy.

Think about the $216/yr you could be keeping in your pocket "IF" for example marrying the recordings to the account # instead of the current RID #.

Hopefully someday.....
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#165 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 03:55 AM



It's unfortunate that you have to pay $6 each = $18 "every" month just to have the redundancy.

Think about the $216/yr you could be keeping in your pocket "IF" for example marrying the recordings to the account # instead of the current RID #.

Hopefully someday.....


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#166 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 04:01 AM

Philip, the CEO of Morega, which developed Nomad has stated to me and HDTVFANBOY at CES 2012 that they would like to Implement Archiving and they could easily do it as it is just Offloading an Image Copy of the Recording without having to Transcode it.

The 30 Day Rule would not apply as it is not Viewable on the USB External Hard Drive.

You also could not Offload the Recording to a Friend's PC unless the PC was Registered and Authenticated by Directv.

You could also Offload it to a 3 or 4 TB USB External Hard Drive without a Problem because you are just Storing Image Copies for later Restoration to a Particular DVR (it could be any DVR that is tied to your Account # Via the Authentication Server).

It is all up to Directv to choose the Path that they want to take if they decide to Allow Archiving and I have been told by Reputable Directv Sources that they are discussing Archiving and will come out with a Method in the not too distant Future. :D
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#167 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 05:59 AM

.....and I have been told by Reputable Directv Sources that they are discussing Archiving and will come out with a Method in the not too distant Future. :D

Of course to some folks...that's considered "blowing smoke"... ;) :D

It's unfortunate that you have to pay $6 each = $18 "every" month just to have the redundancy.

Certainly a valid point.
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#168 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 07:43 AM

We're talking about Archiving all kinds of Recordings not just Movies or Series and such.

I might want to Store a Golf Event or a Significant Historical Newscast or whatever and you can't ask Directv to Record every single thing every day and Store it on a Server.

It would take too much storage space.

So give us the Ability to buy a Large USB External Drive and hook it up to Nomad and them use Nomad to Offload Selected Recordings to the USB Drive for Archival Purposes as we have already paid for the right to View these Recordings.

Now let us move them to whatever DVR we want or to Restore to a DVR after the Internal Drive that dies has been Replaced.


Satellite broadcasts and DVR are not the only plausible means to provide the functionality that we want. Consider how many copies of any given show are sitting on drives in homes. Why is that storage any more excessive than centralized storage? Storage in the cloud is massive and growing more massive by the second - Google/Youtube/Amazon/Apple/...

Cloud storage is preferable. Minimal redundancy (copies/RAID/replication), robust power (UPS/generators) and cooling, efficiencies of scale, etc, etc.

Every single program that is broadcast is in fact stored somewhere and increasingly digitally. Older stuff is probably on original film roll or digital tape. May not be immediately accessible but could be brought online soon enough. Large data centers typically have huge robots that manage digital tape. Worst case, a body has to go pull media off a shelf and mount it in a drive - which can then be cached in online storage. Why not have the content owners provide streams on demand? Delivery services like D* could just be proxies for those streams which would not require them to store anything. They are just a proxy now for broadcasts.

The limitation today is the bandwidth from the content owner to the customer. As the internet bandwidth continues to grow this will eventually not be an issue.

The consumers device should be a cache only. Tell it what you want and it brings it into its cache. Sort of like on demand only predictive - for series pre-cache a certain number of episodes, when you've watched and deleted one it queues up the next. This isolates the viewer from the bandwidth limitations. Who cares if it takes 4 hours to download a 1 hour program. If the consumers device fails just drop in a new one and it re-caches everything the old one had. Only 1 cache/server per home is needed.

With sufficient internet bandwidth there is no need for satellite. Or better yet, convert the satellite service from rebroadcast of hundreds of channels to all on demand delivery. When the same program is requested by multiple consumer devices it can transmit that stream once to all of them.

A fitting pricing model is a minimum subscription for the service and the device in the home plus pay-per-view for every program. Obviously with program cost low enough that it's cheaper for most people than todays model and re-watching a program months later is worth the cost (maybe even charge less per view after the first). Actually, the first view should pay for all the "content" and subsequent views should only charge for the infrastructure to deliver the already-paid-for content. They could even provide a with-commerical and without-commercial with appropriate price difference.

This would be a revolutionary advancement. Maybe it's what Apple is working on. Broadcasting should go the same way as CD and book stores. The content providers would be wise to enable this as soon as possible.

#169 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 07:47 AM

In fairness I thought it would be too.

Thanks for the reaffirmation Stuart.
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#170 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 08:59 AM

Philip, the CEO of Morega, which developed Nomad has stated to me and HDTVFANBOY at CES 2012 that they would like to Implement Archiving and they could easily do it as it is just Offloading an Image Copy of the Recording without having to Transcode it.

The 30 Day Rule would not apply as it is not Viewable on the USB External Hard Drive.

You also could not Offload the Recording to a Friend's PC unless the PC was Registered and Authenticated by Directv.

You could also Offload it to a 3 or 4 TB USB External Hard Drive without a Problem because you are just Storing Image Copies for later Restoration to a Particular DVR (it could be any DVR that is tied to your Account # Via the Authentication Server).

It is all up to Directv to choose the Path that they want to take if they decide to Allow Archiving and I have been told by Reputable Directv Sources that they are discussing Archiving and will come out with a Method in the not too distant Future. :D

The one thing that would be hard to get around is being a DIRECTV subscriber. If we leave DIRECTV the recordings are no longer viewable.

To archive it would also have to be some standard format that doesn’t require a proprietary client to view the recordings. I’m pretty sure that will never happen so would Morega/DIRECTV go through the effort to allow such archiving if they have no control over the DRM? Would the broadcasters be on board with that?

Mike

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#171 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 09:03 AM

This is the "official" page on the DirecTV site regarding how they support extended storage:

http://news.directv....-dvr-or-hd-dvr/

This page includes recording time capacities for comparison - the HR34 (aka Whole Home Media Center) had the largest onboard storage (twice that of any current HD DVR). Note: they measure things in hours, not HDD size):

http://www.directv.c...gy/hmc_receiver
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#172 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 09:07 AM

The one thing that would be hard to get around is being a DIRECTV subscriber. If we leave DIRECTV the recordings are no longer viewable.

That's actually a fascinating point Mike.

Since the controls are in place to manage access via subscriber authentication...perhaps that could be leveraged somehow to accomplish household use (only) of external storage. Perhaps that infrastructure could allow DirecTV to enforce and ensure copy protection compliance. :shrug:
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#173 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 09:21 AM

That was indeed the plan for some time. The challenge is when the time to implement something exceeds the window of opportunity for its "critical" need and compared with "more important priorities". Anyone familiar with roadmaps (I manage one in another industry) knows that beyond 3-6 months down the road, roadmap content items and corresponding priorities change.

Roadmap plans like this are laid out all the time. While in most cases these things do get done, not everything gets implemented when it comes up for "next in line" deployment. This is just one example.

Having launched polls on this very topic twice in the past 30 months, and seeing an overwhelming desire for some kind of either household recording storage or general archiving (either one to avoid loss of "prized recordings"), I have been a strong advocate for the important need to address this.

With the launch of the HR34 device, and the increased risk of having one central storage location (as opposed to multiple HD DVRs for example), this is both a continued and timely topic to this day.

Something needs to be done to allow end users to have a means to avoid recording loss from a hard drive failure. The technology exists to support it, including the required ability to assure copyright protection for content.

All that said, recent DirecTV presentations to the financial community have "hinted" that this is now on their roadmap. For that reason, as well as the HR34 added recording loss risk exposure, I suspect we may actually see some form of solution sooner than later.


I don't know what to think about this. I do know I won't get a 34 unless D* changes the policy to allow all HDDs on an account to be read by all HRs on the same account. I know, as you do, the technology exists for this change, but at what cost?

The HD GUI really didn't bother my HRs all that much (still haven't received the new NR), certainly not as much as it seems to have bothered other folks and their HRs. I gotta admit I'm a little apprehensive about a change in how the HDDs work inside an account and how well D* will implement that change.

Rich

#174 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 09:23 AM

Currently none of the providers offer protection against HDD failure, and realistically thats not what most are asking for. We want the ability to be able to view our prized recordings on another dvr on our acct if the dvr dies.....


Agreed, I've had a whole lot more DVR failures than HDD failures.

Rich

#175 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 09:26 AM

I do archive everything I want to archive, and I dont buy box sets or movies. I dont believe in paying for the same thing twice.

Dish allows archiving, Comcast (using a Tivo DVR) allows archiving...What is DirecTv's problem?


There's a question that begs an answer.

Rich




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