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line conditioner recommendation


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7 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 03:11 PM

I know we had a similar descussion, but I need some further help, please.

After determining I realy don't need a battery back up, I am looking at line conditioners for my plasma, dvd, avr, and sat reciever.

I called tripp lite and they pointed me to their "LC1800".

After going to Amazon and reading one of the 2* reviews [ dated feb 2012],

I was realy disappointed to find out it did not shut down the equipment with either high or low voltage changes, just kept adjusting the power, [ especially the low end] . There was also complaints of "hum" and some clicking. [ by other posters]

Tell me what you have and if your happy. Not going to spend a huge amount, either. [ less than 300.00]

to "1953", does your Panamax have the above issues? I would be interested in knowing. Is your model a line conditioner [ has to address high and low votage, and shuts down power to equipment especially during brownouts.]

I just spent the last few hours reading on line and Most address equipment that is way out of my price range.

frustrated, to say the least.

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#2 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:12 PM

I was realy disappointed to find out it did not shut down the equipment with either high or low voltage changes, just kept adjusting the power, [ especially the low end] .


Isn't that what you want? To protect the equipment from random shutdowns due to power fluctuations?

A UPS with AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulation) provides a constant output voltage when utility power goes low or high. It will adjust power until the battery drains, then shut down. Your attached video and audio equipment will be protected from stray voltages, then shut off.

When used on a PC with the software included with the UPS loaded and a USB cable, the UPS will send the PC into an orderly shutdown when battery power gets low.

You should be able to get a good 1500VA unit (or higher) for under $200.

Something along this line:

http://www.amazon.co...32022551&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.co...32006593&sr=1-8

http://www.amazon.co...2022417&sr=1-32
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#3 OFFLINE   tgater

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 05:39 PM

Isn't that what you want? To protect the equipment from random shutdowns due to power fluctuations?

A UPS with AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulation) provides a constant output voltage when utility power goes low or high. It will adjust power until the battery drains, then shut down. Your attached video and audio equipment will be protected from stray voltages, then shut off.

When used on a PC with the software included with the UPS loaded and a USB cable, the UPS will send the PC into an orderly shutdown when battery power gets low.

You should be able to get a good 1500VA unit (or higher) for under $200.

Something along this line:

http://www.amazon.co...32022551&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.co...32006593&sr=1-8

http://www.amazon.co...2022417&sr=1-32


Ditto, I have UPS devices plugged into GFCI outlets protecting all of my electronics.

#4 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:09 PM

I know we had a similar descussion, but I need some further help, please.

After determining I realy don't need a battery back up, I am looking at line conditioners for my plasma, dvd, avr, and sat reciever.

I called tripp lite and they pointed me to their "LC1800".

After going to Amazon and reading one of the 2* reviews [ dated feb 2012],

I was realy disappointed to find out it did not shut down the equipment with either high or low voltage changes, just kept adjusting the power, [ especially the low end] . There was also complaints of "hum" and some clicking. [ by other posters]

Tell me what you have and if your happy. Not going to spend a huge amount, either. [ less than 300.00]

to "1953", does your Panamax have the above issues? I would be interested in knowing. Is your model a line conditioner [ has to address high and low votage, and shuts down power to equipment especially during brownouts.]

I just spent the last few hours reading on line and Most address equipment that is way out of my price range.

frustrated, to say the least.


No. The only disappointment was that my Panamax M4300-PM had only 4 universal coaxial connections. Since my HR24 has 2 coaxial lines coming in and I have OTA coaxial coming in I needed 6 universal coaxial connections. But not to worry. The outstanding Panamax Tech Support Rep sold me a add on module that increased both coaxial and phone line connections. This add on cost $35 with shipping included. Upgrading to the next model, the 5100, is listed at $200 more. I ordered my Panamax through my local BB for $309 (reg $339) with free next day air. Note-If you buy the 4300 and need the extra coaxial mod be sure to get the pre-made ground wire. The mod is non powered yet is connected to the 4300 with a ground wire. Check out the Panamax web site.

#5 OFFLINE   John Williams

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:38 PM

Please read the following. Note there are 3 sections. A device maybe designed as just one of these things or use 2 or all 3 components in its design.

Battery backup:
Is simply a circuit in which a charger is used to maintain voltage on a battery, a transfer switch to go from line voltage to battery and back, and an inverter that takes battery voltage and converts it to line voltage.
Please note: Cheap UPS systems use a modified sine wave output (also called quasi sine wave). It is more similar to a square wave than a sine wave; the level of distortion in the wave is usually proportional to the cost of the system. Some sensitive electronic equipment will have real problems with being feed crappy power. Have mostly seen this with cheap network gear. True sine wave systems are expensive by comparison but provide a perfect output comparable to the electrical utility.
A double conversion system is where there is no transfer switch used. The output is always run off the inverter.
Remember with battery backup there is maintenance. Every 3-5 years you are going to be replacing batteries, which on large UPS systems and be expensive. And not environmentally friendly.
Note: Battery backup is a separate system and doesn’t have anything to do with surge protection. Although most battery backups usually have a surge protection circuit built into them – this however is a separate circuit and nothing to do with the battery backup circuit.

Voltage regulation:
Can be in the form of a battery backup system, as mentioned above, for a cheap solution. A true voltage regulation system however has some type of large autoformer with multi taps. The system automatically switches the taps on the autoformer in relation to the input voltage, to maintain a specific output voltage. Most cheap units make a lot of noise (clicking) as they switch the taps. When the input voltage gets too high or low (beyond what the taps can do) you will also get hum. Also cheap units that only use a few taps, and the voltage is right in between 2 taps, you can get a lot of clicking and hum.

Surge protection:
The cheapest form of surge protection is to just throw a few MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) across the line, neutral, and ground. A MOV will conduct electricity when a certain voltage is reached. As you can imagine there is a huge variation among MOVs. They can be cheap ($0.05) like found in power strips costing $5-$10 which afford next to no protection what so ever. Or they can be very large, expensive units that will handle large sinks of energy quickly (generally found in the more expensive models by manufactures). The problem with MOV based systems is they are sacrificial. Once a MOV conducts, it has wear on it. If it sinks a lot of energy (like from a surge) it can be destroyed. Usually you will find a bank of MOVs in a surge protector. A lot of more expensive MOV based protectors are a MOV hybrid as well.
With MOV based units, it’s a good idea to replace the unit every so often to maintain maximum protection. Do NOT rely on the lights on the unit to tell you when it needs to be replaced, those lights NEVER work. The only time those lights are accurate is when the unit is new and when it has been very obviously hit and destroyed. The unit could be on its last leg and offering very little protection; the diagnostic lights will still show good. If you live in an area that sees frequent surges, you might consider replacing these type units every 5 years or so. If you live in a place that rarely ever sees surges and generally has good power, then replace when you know the home has been hit with a large strike or every 10 years or so; whichever comes first.

Most good protectors will include transformers as well to impede the path of surges and filter noise. However, this can be counterproductive with high current amplifiers as the increased inductance can starve an amplifier for power - we’re talking about high current amps here, ones that usually need their own dedicated electrical circuits. Or at the least, sucking down 10-12 amps at peak. Some higher end protectors have dedicated outlets for such equipment, that bypass the inductors (transformers, coils).

More expensive and better protectors with usually have a smart circuit with relays to disconnect power when the voltage goes above or below a set point (over voltage and brownouts). And will not reconnect power until voltage has been stabilized for a set amount of time (usually 1-3 seconds).

At the top of the surge protection chain you will see designs that get away from MOV based units and have non-sacrificial components. These designs generally will also include zero ground contamination. They are expensive by comparison to MOV designs and are generally large in size.

Edited by John Williams, 18 March 2012 - 03:44 PM.


#6 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:47 PM

well, I realy kind of discounted a battery back up, as I have no DVR

I read your post twice to make sure I was understanding it.
I guess what your saying is the tripplite lc1800 is a cheap regulator.
I looked at some of your recommendations, and I saw a few "furman's" but they were higher than my plasma [ $1200]

I revisited the panamax 4300 that 1953 liked, but there apparently are no "always on outlets" and I believe I need that for my Sat reciever which controls a second TV, and requires "on" to do it's daily update.

I am now looking at an APC H15. That is about as high as I can go, I am also considering the apc h10 [older model a bit less$.]

When you say "more expensive and better" [ surge] protectors usually have the smart circuit for the disconnect. Can you give any examples?

#7 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:50 PM

well, I realy kind of discounted a battery back up, as I have no DVR


Irrelevant.

Don't tie the two together in your mind.
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#8 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:40 PM

well, I realy kind of discounted a battery back up, as I have no DVR

I read your post twice to make sure I was understanding it.
I guess what your saying is the tripplite lc1800 is a cheap regulator.
I looked at some of your recommendations, and I saw a few "furman's" but they were higher than my plasma [ $1200]

I revisited the panamax 4300 that 1953 liked, but there apparently are no "always on outlets" and I believe I need that for my Sat reciever which controls a second TV, and requires "on" to do it's daily update.

I am now looking at an APC H15. That is about as high as I can go, I am also considering the apc h10 [older model a bit less$.]

When you say "more expensive and better" [ surge] protectors usually have the smart circuit for the disconnect. Can you give any examples?


The 4300 has both switched and unswitched. I suggest you call Panamax to ensure the 4300 will meet your specific needs. This unit was highly recommended to me by several in the know sources.

Panamax is to Furman as Ford is to Lincoln. Furman is far to costly for my needs.




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