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Windows 7 ascending sort wrong?


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12 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Indiana627

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:16 PM

Is there a bug with the way Windows 7 sorts in ascending order in Explorer? I have 3 files named ABC123 Angle, ABC123 Front and ABC123 Front Top. Shouldn't they be listed in ascending order as:

ABC123 Angle
ABC123 Front
ABC123 Front Top

Instead, they are listed as:

ABC123 Angle
ABC123 Front Top
ABC123 Front

Does this seem right?
Mark

"We named the dog Indiana."
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#2 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:46 PM

Is there a bug with the way Windows 7 sorts in ascending order in Explorer? I have 3 files named ABC123 Angle, ABC123 Front and ABC123 Front Top. Shouldn't they be listed in ascending order as:

ABC123 Angle
ABC123 Front
ABC123 Front Top

Instead, they are listed as:

ABC123 Angle
ABC123 Front Top
ABC123 Front

Does this seem right?

Hmmm, mine sort "right" as either files or folders. Descending is in proper order as well. Do you have file extensions on them (DOC, PDF, TXT etc)? Or are they a MIXTURE of files AND folders? That would do it

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Edited by TBlazer07, 29 March 2012 - 12:56 PM.


#3 OFFLINE   Indiana627

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

Just files, no folders. Here's what mine looks like. This happens regardless of file type (it happens with JPG, TXT, etc).Windows 7 Pro 32 bit.

Attached Thumbnails

  • sort order.jpg

Mark

"We named the dog Indiana."
Family Room: HR24-100; WD10EVCS 1TB drive in Antec MX-1; connected via HDMI to Denon AVR-2313CI; 5.1 setup with Boston Acoustics A250 fronts, A225C center, A25 surrounds, ASW650 sub; video to Sony 52W4100 via HDMI; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
Bedroom: HR21-200 with AM21 & Philips PHDTV1 Antenna, HDMI to Dynex 32" TV; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
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#4 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:01 PM

Just files, no folders. Here's what mine looks like. This happens regardless of file type (it happens with JPG, TXT, etc).Windows 7 Pro 32 bit.


They are all Word files and have the extension .DOC or .DOCX. You have the extensions hidden so I didn't know until I saw your screen print and it showed them as WORD documents. I added .DOC to mine and they came out like the ones in your first message. Not sure if it is a bug, I'm sure there is some illogical explanation for it. :)

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#5 OFFLINE   Indiana627

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:10 PM

So why do yours display right without the file extensions but then wrong with the file extensions while mine display wrong either way? What Windows are you running?

I know these are all Word files, I just used them as examples. My main issue are with photos (JPG, TIF, PSD, etc) displaying this way. I just made these ABC123 .doc files for a easy example.
Mark

"We named the dog Indiana."
Family Room: HR24-100; WD10EVCS 1TB drive in Antec MX-1; connected via HDMI to Denon AVR-2313CI; 5.1 setup with Boston Acoustics A250 fronts, A225C center, A25 surrounds, ASW650 sub; video to Sony 52W4100 via HDMI; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
Bedroom: HR21-200 with AM21 & Philips PHDTV1 Antenna, HDMI to Dynex 32" TV; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
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#6 OFFLINE   Indiana627

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:26 PM

I though this might have helped but it didn't. I'm finding lots of threads out there about this on various Windows sites, but so far haven't come across the silver bullet solution.
Mark

"We named the dog Indiana."
Family Room: HR24-100; WD10EVCS 1TB drive in Antec MX-1; connected via HDMI to Denon AVR-2313CI; 5.1 setup with Boston Acoustics A250 fronts, A225C center, A25 surrounds, ASW650 sub; video to Sony 52W4100 via HDMI; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
Bedroom: HR21-200 with AM21 & Philips PHDTV1 Antenna, HDMI to Dynex 32" TV; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
(1) Slimline 3 LBN dish (2 lines direct to each HR2x. No multiswitch.)
D* since January 2003

#7 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:25 PM

So why do yours display right without the file extensions but then wrong with the file extensions while mine display wrong either way? What Windows are you running?

I know these are all Word files, I just used them as examples. My main issue are with photos (JPG, TIF, PSD, etc) displaying this way. I just made these ABC123 .doc files for a easy example.

Didn't know you tried it with and without extensions. Weird. Win 7 Pro 64. Don't think that should matter.

Try setting your folders to "show hidden extensions for known file types" and see what happens.

Go into control panel and select folder options, then select view tab, then UNCHECK "hide extensions for known file types." (You probably know this already but just in case.) Now try with and without extensions and see if it becomes like mine. That way we are both setup the same.

#8 OFFLINE   Indiana627

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:58 PM

That worked! I unchecked the hide extensions for know file types but they were still displaying like in my original post. Then I right clicked on each to rename them and deleted the file extension and now they are sorted like yours in your first post, but now if I double click on the file from Explorer, it doesn't know which program to open them in. I can open them from within Word, but as soon as I save them, I assume the extension will be added back. How do I keep the file extension from not displaying but still have the hide known extensions box unchecked? I think I'm missing something somewhere.
Mark

"We named the dog Indiana."
Family Room: HR24-100; WD10EVCS 1TB drive in Antec MX-1; connected via HDMI to Denon AVR-2313CI; 5.1 setup with Boston Acoustics A250 fronts, A225C center, A25 surrounds, ASW650 sub; video to Sony 52W4100 via HDMI; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
Bedroom: HR21-200 with AM21 & Philips PHDTV1 Antenna, HDMI to Dynex 32" TV; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
(1) Slimline 3 LBN dish (2 lines direct to each HR2x. No multiswitch.)
D* since January 2003

#9 OFFLINE   neomaine

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:39 PM

Without the file extensions, the OS won't know what to use to open them. You should put them back on.

I'd like to see a screen print of your's when you have the file extensions on. Something like a space char at the end of a filename would cause something like this.

#10 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:45 PM

Without the file extensions, the OS won't know what to use to open them. You should put them back on.

I'd like to see a screen print of your's when you have the file extensions on. Something like a space char at the end of a filename would cause something like this.

When I duplicate what he is doing I have the same problem. No extraneous spaces. Look at my printscreens. It's just a strange Windows anomaly. Evidently the extension effects the sorts.

#11 OFFLINE   BobaBird

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:56 AM

Well, they are part of the file name. Post #4 with extensions revealed shows that sort is correctly placing nothing " " before something ".". The question then is whether sort should include the extension. Given post #1, I would think not. If extensions can be hidden from view, it seems it would also be possible to have them excluded from filename sort.
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#12 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 04:27 AM

Well, they are part of the file name. Post #4 with extensions revealed shows that sort is correctly placing nothing " " before something ".". The question then is whether sort should include the extension. Given post #1, I would think not. If extensions can be hidden from view, it seems it would also be possible to have them excluded from filename sort.


Excellent point. I think you may have something <no pun intended> there. Doesn't "look" logical but may be technically correct. If I were the "sort inventor" I would say "always ignore the extensions" just as if they were hidden (there is a "sort by file TYPE for that purpose) because the NAME of the file is what people generally use and the extension is like a hidden system file.

#13 OFFLINE   neomaine

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:32 AM

Windows (DOS, actually) used to act just in that way, treating a filename as a seperate 'object' than then file extension. However, now with long filename support, 'file extension' doesn't really exist. Mostly because a 'dot' is now a valid character (along with spaces and a bunch of other nasty characters. Sorry, long time UNIX user and seeing 'whitespace' and 'special chars' used in actual filenames is ... just ... wrong). :nono2: ;)

Filename is really just a single character string and a 'dot' just an old placeholder. Well, ok, the LAST set of characters appearing AFTER the LAST dot/period has special meaning to Windows to allow for program association.

For instance, SomeFileName.Is.Here.doc is completely valid. So the collation sequence which determines how values are sorted, is doing it's job. It's why I alwasy zero fill numbers in file names. Like 01-10 or 001-999 so that things sort correctly - according to my needs. But, the '.doc' is the piece used for the OS to associate MS Word or some other document editor to it for ease of use. Note: You can make the extensions and their associations anything you want.

The values of nothing(null), empty space and space are all seperate but can appear to be the same. So, both sets of screen prints shown are doing exactly what they are being told to do, sort in the correct collation sequence.

"ABC123 ANGLE.doc"
"ABC123 FRONT TOP.doc"
"ABC123 FRONT.doc"

Is correct because the first non-common character is A/F and A comes before F. The space between FRONT and TOP in seconed row sorts lower than a dot.

However, take the 'extensions' off:

"ABC123 ANGLE"
"ABC123 FRONT"
"ABC123 FRONT TOP"

Now adding the two statements I've made, there is no real 'extension' but just a single long filename, and the collation sequence - as we've mentioned a 'nothin' (actually, just no more characters) will sort lower than a space (between FRONT and TOP).

So, I see no problems. If you give your folders an 'extention', they'll sort the same way.




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