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Problem/bug Unable to play DVR Events from non-subscribed channels


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96 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   fredpb

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:33 PM

Talked to Dish support again today. They said this problem was not on their list of known issues?????????

When I mentioned I would like to go back to my 622, they said I could, but I would still be kept to my new contract I got with the Hopper.

Nice.
Hopper w/1 Joey.
Living Room:
Samsung HL-T5687S 56" DLP TV.
Panasonic 3D DVD player.
Yamaha Receiver and sub.
Roku.
Netgear Entertainer.



Bedroom:
Vizio VW32L LCD 32" Widescreen TV.
Sony 1080p upconverting DVD player.
Joey.
Roku.

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#22 OFFLINE   js0873

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:06 AM

Talked to Dish support again today. They said this problem was not on their list of known issues?????????

When I mentioned I would like to go back to my 622, they said I could, but I would still be kept to my new contract I got with the Hopper.

Nice.


If it's true that they don't have that on their list of issues I'm mad, because I've personally had them submit a request to the engineers on 3 separate occasions. Each time they told me it was just submitted by them. Hopefully the tech you talked to wasn't aware of the entire issue list. I have no way of really checking what issues they have on the list. Does anyone know how you can really check? Is there a Dish moderator on this board that can check?

#23 OFFLINE   fredpb

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

If it's true that they don't have that on their list of issues I'm mad, because I've personally had them submit a request to the engineers on 3 separate occasions. Each time they told me it was just submitted by them. Hopefully the tech you talked to wasn't aware of the entire issue list. I have no way of really checking what issues they have on the list. Does anyone know how you can really check? Is there a Dish moderator on this board that can check?


I have entered it about four times. First time over a week ago.
Hopper w/1 Joey.
Living Room:
Samsung HL-T5687S 56" DLP TV.
Panasonic 3D DVD player.
Yamaha Receiver and sub.
Roku.
Netgear Entertainer.



Bedroom:
Vizio VW32L LCD 32" Widescreen TV.
Sony 1080p upconverting DVD player.
Joey.
Roku.

#24 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:23 PM

Curious about this issue. Debating whether to keep may account and 750 gb HD and move to Hopper/Joey; or just forget about previous recordings and have my wife sign up as a new customer and start over. The only reason to keep all the recorded stuff is at least half is HBO I no longer subscribe to. May be worth just keeping my 722/211 if this issue is really an issue.

Unless this problem is fixed, the Hopper or any new box with the same restriction is forever not an option for me.

I have over 800 hours of recorded movies and unwatched TV show episodes from the premium channels and, with the sole exception of HBO, I simply don't subscribe to all of them 12 months a year.

If the DIRT folks are reading this thread, please pass on to management that should Dish ever make that content inaccessible while I'm a Dish subscriber, I will have to reevaluate my decades long commitment to Dish/Echostar.

If the Hopper must be this way for licensing reasons, fine. But it is the Dish policy to not allow even a lowly 612 in a home with a Hopper that will have eliminated access to content customers have paid for, not the Hopper EHD feature design.

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#25 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:43 PM

Since this problem is not happening to everyone (people have posted in this thread that they have had no problems)... I believe it is a glitch, not a purposeful situation.

Why this wouldn't be a priority to fix, I couldn't say... but I don't think it is intentional.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#26 OFFLINE   js0873

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:45 PM

None of the techs have ever told me anything other than this is a bug. Well, the last one claimed it's always supposed to have worked that way but I had him check with another tech and he came back with "no, you're right". So they're admitting it's a bug, not a new rule.

#27 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:47 PM

This may be a bug, but it does not affect everyone, and that's very reasonably why it is taking awhile to figure it out.

Edited by tampa8, 12 April 2012 - 03:54 PM.


#28 OFFLINE   fredpb

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:59 AM

Since this problem is not happening to everyone (people have posted in this thread that they have had no problems)... I believe it is a glitch, not a purposeful situation.

Why this wouldn't be a priority to fix, I couldn't say... but I don't think it is intentional.


I don't think it is deliberate. But it is no glitch.

I discovered this morning that if I had played the program on the Hopper before the subscription had expired, the program will play. If I did not view the program on the Hopper before subscription expiration, it will NOT play.

Symptom is consistant and repeatable. No glitch. Bug.
Hopper w/1 Joey.
Living Room:
Samsung HL-T5687S 56" DLP TV.
Panasonic 3D DVD player.
Yamaha Receiver and sub.
Roku.
Netgear Entertainer.



Bedroom:
Vizio VW32L LCD 32" Widescreen TV.
Sony 1080p upconverting DVD player.
Joey.
Roku.

#29 OFFLINE   fredpb

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

This may be a bug, but it does not affect everyone, and that's very reasonably why it is taking awhile to figure it out.


It will only affect those who have unsubscribed to channels while having the Hopper. Not many. Yet.
Hopper w/1 Joey.
Living Room:
Samsung HL-T5687S 56" DLP TV.
Panasonic 3D DVD player.
Yamaha Receiver and sub.
Roku.
Netgear Entertainer.



Bedroom:
Vizio VW32L LCD 32" Widescreen TV.
Sony 1080p upconverting DVD player.
Joey.
Roku.

#30 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:48 PM

Symptom is consistant and repeatable. No glitch. Bug.


Now you're just talking semantics.

Glitch, bug, error, problem, improper implementation, insufficiently tested configuration, etc. all pretty much mean the same thing with regards to this kind of problem.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#31 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:19 PM

Semantics ...

If you will tell SW Dept about glitch you'll never get it's attention; but tell them about a bug ... that's the key!
Glitch vs a bug mean inconsistency vs repeatedly.

#32 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:33 PM

I don't think it is deliberate. But it is no glitch.

Symptom is consistant and repeatable. No glitch. Bug.


I think you are missing the point. I know of and see posts of people who can get recorded programming, that was on their 612 or 722, do not now subscribe, and can watch the recordings with their Hopper. That makes it harder to find the problem and fix it. Maybe Dish knows the common thread of why some can watch and not others, maybe they don't yet.

#33 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:58 PM

Semantics ...

If you will tell SW Dept about glitch you'll never get it's attention; but tell them about a bug ... that's the key!
Glitch vs a bug mean inconsistency vs repeatedly.


But it is only repeatable on the receivers having the problem. It is not repeatable on receivers working fine.

Some people have this problem, not others... so while using these definitions it might be a bug to you, it is a glitch to the pool of receivers, most of which apparently don't have this issue.

Again, it's just semantics.

This is a real problem for some users, and should be looked at by Dish. I'm sure it is being investigated, but if it is just a small amount of customers, it might be a while before they can isolate it.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#34 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:02 PM

But it is only repeatable on the receivers having the problem. ...

That's the key to categorize it as a bug and start troubleshooting by SW Dept.

#35 OFFLINE   Ijon_Tichy

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:55 PM

I have this problem as well (Error 013 - subscription channel not purchased). But not for every channel.

I get the error for ALL old recordings made on MGMHD and old VOOM channels especially KUNGFU and FilmFest.

Most UNIHD and EPIX (1,2 3) hd recordings are affected as well.

I've tried more than 30 different recordings on the 3 different EHDs will no success.

I even transfered recordings to the Hopper drive and they all report Error Code: 04.

All of these were just fine the day before I got my Hopper.

Old recordings done on any Showtime & Cinemax channels are not affected.

I no longer subscribe to any of the above channels so it's odd that some work and some don't.

I currently subscribe to HBO and have no trouble (so far) with old recordings made on their channels.

This is more than annoying since I have 100's of recordings from old Voom channels that are no longer available.

Dish better fix this soon.

#36 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:45 PM

But it is only repeatable on the receivers having the problem. It is not repeatable on receivers working fine.

Stewart, based on this pody I think we probably are not getting consistent report here:

I have this problem as well (Error 013 - subscription channel not purchased). But not for every channel.

I get the error for ALL old recordings made on MGMHD and old VOOM channels especially KUNGFU and FilmFest.

Most UNIHD and EPIX (1,2 3) hd recordings are affected as well.

I've tried more than 30 different recordings on the 3 different EHDs will no success.

I even transfered recordings to the Hopper drive and they all report Error Code: 04.

All of these were just fine the day before I got my Hopper.

Old recordings done on any Showtime & Cinemax channels are not affected.

I no longer subscribe to any of the above channels so it's odd that some work and some don't.

I currently subscribe to HBO and have no trouble (so far) with old recordings made on their channels.

This is more than annoying since I have 100's of recordings from old Voom channels that are no longer available.

Dish better fix this soon.

The first element of the problem is that one must not be subscribing to the channel/premium service involved.

Then according to Ijon_Tichy: "Old recordings done on any Showtime & Cinemax channels are not affected." I don't know what he means by "old" but I haven't seen a complaint associated with Showtime. But js0873 reported a problem with Cinemax.

There's just not going to be many with content recorded from the old none-existent VOOM channels which makes me wonder how the system can even decide to block those.

MGMHD, UNIHD and EPIX are channels that again, far fewer folks will have content. But you're not going to have "old" content from Epix.

This is clearly a software/firmware bug. If there are others with content recorded from the old none-existent VOOM channels and they can't play it, it would be a way to focus with consistency because we have a definition for "old" and, as far as I can remember, there weren't DRM issues with VOOM.

And it would be helpful to make sure that the content cannot be accessed by someone who is not using HDMI cables.

It is going to be consistency and maybe Echostar Engineering is going to have to find someone with some old Voom channel content on an EHD they'll loan out.

Edited by phrelin, 14 April 2012 - 04:47 PM.
typo

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"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
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My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#37 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:32 PM

If there are others with content recorded from the old none-existent VOOM channels and they can't play it, it would be a way to focus with consistency because we have a definition for "old" and, as far as I can remember, there weren't DRM issues with VOOM.


I do remember there were some times way way back when a few channels, including some of the Voom ones, were having trick-play issues. Like you couldn't pause or rewind or ffwd. I definitely remember reporting those way back in the day.

So... you're right, no intentional DRM issues on those channels... but definitely there were some issues creeping in from time to time.

It would also be helpful to know... if people really know these recordings were playable recently on their non-Hoppers.

If you have 50 recordings on your EHD, how many have you actually checked recently? There have been other EHD archive bugs that resulted in recordings that were unplayable... It is entirely possible people have recordings that are unplayable now that would have been unplayable before they switched to Hopper.

The only way to be 100% sure... would be if someone played a movie on their ViP from the external drive... then got a Hopper upgrade... and tried that same recording that same day.

I had recordings I thought were good... but didn't watch for months... then found out they were corrupt. I lost some Star Wars movies that way actually, and basically it wasn't until the recent Blu-ray release that I finally got those movies back in HD!

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#38 OFFLINE   Ijon_Tichy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:48 PM

When I stated 'old' I meant any recording made before switching to the Hopper system. I have been a Dish customer for five years.

Over the years I have had 'free' Showtime, HBO, Cinemax, etc. And until MGMHD, Epix, HDMV, etc switched to the Blockbuster package I had those too.

When switching to Hopper I also ditched the Blockbuster package and thus no longer subscribe to those channels. I have recordings done just la few weeks ago on MGMHD, Epix 1,2 and 3 that now no longer work.

I haven't subscribed to Showtime or Cinemax channels for two years and yet recordings made on that family of channels work just fine on the Hopper.

And nothing I have from Voom works at all.

I haven't tried every channel recording I have but this seems clear:

VOOM, MGMHD --> all not working
EPIX --> most not working
INDIE (retroplex) --> most not working

HHDNMV --> about 50/50 (so far) not working

Cinemax (Action, Max, etc), Showtime, TMC channels --> all working

#39 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:48 PM

Unless this problem is fixed, the Hopper or any new box with the same restriction is forever not an option for me.

I have over 800 hours of recorded movies and unwatched TV show episodes from the premium channels and, with the sole exception of HBO, I simply don't subscribe to all of them 12 months a year.


800 hours of unwatched content? Why? Do you back this up on redundant drives in case of a drive failure? Why not archive content you want to store semi-permanently or permanently in a format that is not just specific to your sat provider and can be played back through any media player? If you do change providers or Dish decides not to make EHD recorded content compatible with a system you are out and the content is gone anyway?

Have I been missing something WRT EHD and long term archiving of DVR content? Is this a right covered under fair use that Dish must protect for their subscribers?

#40 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:04 PM

Since this appears to have been missed... I'll ask again...

For those having this problem. When is the last time you actually played one of these events on your non-Hopper system?

I ask because... there have been lots of various EHD bugs with Dish in the past that either rendered recordings unplayable OR rendered them unplayable after moving to an archive drive.

To be 100% sure this is a new problem... you would need to have a recording that you know played just before you swapped out the receivers for a Hopper/Joey.

I'm seeing a lot of posts about multiple hours of archived programs... but not an indication that any of them definitely played within say the last month before you upgraded.

It is entirely possible you have recordings that wouldn't have played on your ViP receiver too, but just hadn't tried them in a while.

-- I like to go fast (not really)





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