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Problem/bug Unable to play DVR Events from non-subscribed channels


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96 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   js0873

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:45 PM

None of the techs have ever told me anything other than this is a bug. Well, the last one claimed it's always supposed to have worked that way but I had him check with another tech and he came back with "no, you're right". So they're admitting it's a bug, not a new rule.

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#27 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:47 PM

This may be a bug, but it does not affect everyone, and that's very reasonably why it is taking awhile to figure it out.

Edited by tampa8, 12 April 2012 - 03:54 PM.


#28 OFFLINE   fredpb

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:59 AM

Since this problem is not happening to everyone (people have posted in this thread that they have had no problems)... I believe it is a glitch, not a purposeful situation.

Why this wouldn't be a priority to fix, I couldn't say... but I don't think it is intentional.


I don't think it is deliberate. But it is no glitch.

I discovered this morning that if I had played the program on the Hopper before the subscription had expired, the program will play. If I did not view the program on the Hopper before subscription expiration, it will NOT play.

Symptom is consistant and repeatable. No glitch. Bug.
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#29 OFFLINE   fredpb

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

This may be a bug, but it does not affect everyone, and that's very reasonably why it is taking awhile to figure it out.


It will only affect those who have unsubscribed to channels while having the Hopper. Not many. Yet.
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#30 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:48 PM

Symptom is consistant and repeatable. No glitch. Bug.


Now you're just talking semantics.

Glitch, bug, error, problem, improper implementation, insufficiently tested configuration, etc. all pretty much mean the same thing with regards to this kind of problem.

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#31 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:19 PM

Semantics ...

If you will tell SW Dept about glitch you'll never get it's attention; but tell them about a bug ... that's the key!
Glitch vs a bug mean inconsistency vs repeatedly.

#32 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:33 PM

I don't think it is deliberate. But it is no glitch.

Symptom is consistant and repeatable. No glitch. Bug.


I think you are missing the point. I know of and see posts of people who can get recorded programming, that was on their 612 or 722, do not now subscribe, and can watch the recordings with their Hopper. That makes it harder to find the problem and fix it. Maybe Dish knows the common thread of why some can watch and not others, maybe they don't yet.

#33 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:58 PM

Semantics ...

If you will tell SW Dept about glitch you'll never get it's attention; but tell them about a bug ... that's the key!
Glitch vs a bug mean inconsistency vs repeatedly.


But it is only repeatable on the receivers having the problem. It is not repeatable on receivers working fine.

Some people have this problem, not others... so while using these definitions it might be a bug to you, it is a glitch to the pool of receivers, most of which apparently don't have this issue.

Again, it's just semantics.

This is a real problem for some users, and should be looked at by Dish. I'm sure it is being investigated, but if it is just a small amount of customers, it might be a while before they can isolate it.

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#34 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:02 PM

But it is only repeatable on the receivers having the problem. ...

That's the key to categorize it as a bug and start troubleshooting by SW Dept.

#35 OFFLINE   Ijon_Tichy

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:55 PM

I have this problem as well (Error 013 - subscription channel not purchased). But not for every channel.

I get the error for ALL old recordings made on MGMHD and old VOOM channels especially KUNGFU and FilmFest.

Most UNIHD and EPIX (1,2 3) hd recordings are affected as well.

I've tried more than 30 different recordings on the 3 different EHDs will no success.

I even transfered recordings to the Hopper drive and they all report Error Code: 04.

All of these were just fine the day before I got my Hopper.

Old recordings done on any Showtime & Cinemax channels are not affected.

I no longer subscribe to any of the above channels so it's odd that some work and some don't.

I currently subscribe to HBO and have no trouble (so far) with old recordings made on their channels.

This is more than annoying since I have 100's of recordings from old Voom channels that are no longer available.

Dish better fix this soon.

#36 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:45 PM

But it is only repeatable on the receivers having the problem. It is not repeatable on receivers working fine.

Stewart, based on this pody I think we probably are not getting consistent report here:

I have this problem as well (Error 013 - subscription channel not purchased). But not for every channel.

I get the error for ALL old recordings made on MGMHD and old VOOM channels especially KUNGFU and FilmFest.

Most UNIHD and EPIX (1,2 3) hd recordings are affected as well.

I've tried more than 30 different recordings on the 3 different EHDs will no success.

I even transfered recordings to the Hopper drive and they all report Error Code: 04.

All of these were just fine the day before I got my Hopper.

Old recordings done on any Showtime & Cinemax channels are not affected.

I no longer subscribe to any of the above channels so it's odd that some work and some don't.

I currently subscribe to HBO and have no trouble (so far) with old recordings made on their channels.

This is more than annoying since I have 100's of recordings from old Voom channels that are no longer available.

Dish better fix this soon.

The first element of the problem is that one must not be subscribing to the channel/premium service involved.

Then according to Ijon_Tichy: "Old recordings done on any Showtime & Cinemax channels are not affected." I don't know what he means by "old" but I haven't seen a complaint associated with Showtime. But js0873 reported a problem with Cinemax.

There's just not going to be many with content recorded from the old none-existent VOOM channels which makes me wonder how the system can even decide to block those.

MGMHD, UNIHD and EPIX are channels that again, far fewer folks will have content. But you're not going to have "old" content from Epix.

This is clearly a software/firmware bug. If there are others with content recorded from the old none-existent VOOM channels and they can't play it, it would be a way to focus with consistency because we have a definition for "old" and, as far as I can remember, there weren't DRM issues with VOOM.

And it would be helpful to make sure that the content cannot be accessed by someone who is not using HDMI cables.

It is going to be consistency and maybe Echostar Engineering is going to have to find someone with some old Voom channel content on an EHD they'll loan out.

Edited by phrelin, 14 April 2012 - 04:47 PM.
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#37 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:32 PM

If there are others with content recorded from the old none-existent VOOM channels and they can't play it, it would be a way to focus with consistency because we have a definition for "old" and, as far as I can remember, there weren't DRM issues with VOOM.


I do remember there were some times way way back when a few channels, including some of the Voom ones, were having trick-play issues. Like you couldn't pause or rewind or ffwd. I definitely remember reporting those way back in the day.

So... you're right, no intentional DRM issues on those channels... but definitely there were some issues creeping in from time to time.

It would also be helpful to know... if people really know these recordings were playable recently on their non-Hoppers.

If you have 50 recordings on your EHD, how many have you actually checked recently? There have been other EHD archive bugs that resulted in recordings that were unplayable... It is entirely possible people have recordings that are unplayable now that would have been unplayable before they switched to Hopper.

The only way to be 100% sure... would be if someone played a movie on their ViP from the external drive... then got a Hopper upgrade... and tried that same recording that same day.

I had recordings I thought were good... but didn't watch for months... then found out they were corrupt. I lost some Star Wars movies that way actually, and basically it wasn't until the recent Blu-ray release that I finally got those movies back in HD!

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#38 OFFLINE   Ijon_Tichy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:48 PM

When I stated 'old' I meant any recording made before switching to the Hopper system. I have been a Dish customer for five years.

Over the years I have had 'free' Showtime, HBO, Cinemax, etc. And until MGMHD, Epix, HDMV, etc switched to the Blockbuster package I had those too.

When switching to Hopper I also ditched the Blockbuster package and thus no longer subscribe to those channels. I have recordings done just la few weeks ago on MGMHD, Epix 1,2 and 3 that now no longer work.

I haven't subscribed to Showtime or Cinemax channels for two years and yet recordings made on that family of channels work just fine on the Hopper.

And nothing I have from Voom works at all.

I haven't tried every channel recording I have but this seems clear:

VOOM, MGMHD --> all not working
EPIX --> most not working
INDIE (retroplex) --> most not working

HHDNMV --> about 50/50 (so far) not working

Cinemax (Action, Max, etc), Showtime, TMC channels --> all working

#39 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:48 PM

Unless this problem is fixed, the Hopper or any new box with the same restriction is forever not an option for me.

I have over 800 hours of recorded movies and unwatched TV show episodes from the premium channels and, with the sole exception of HBO, I simply don't subscribe to all of them 12 months a year.


800 hours of unwatched content? Why? Do you back this up on redundant drives in case of a drive failure? Why not archive content you want to store semi-permanently or permanently in a format that is not just specific to your sat provider and can be played back through any media player? If you do change providers or Dish decides not to make EHD recorded content compatible with a system you are out and the content is gone anyway?

Have I been missing something WRT EHD and long term archiving of DVR content? Is this a right covered under fair use that Dish must protect for their subscribers?

#40 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:04 PM

Since this appears to have been missed... I'll ask again...

For those having this problem. When is the last time you actually played one of these events on your non-Hopper system?

I ask because... there have been lots of various EHD bugs with Dish in the past that either rendered recordings unplayable OR rendered them unplayable after moving to an archive drive.

To be 100% sure this is a new problem... you would need to have a recording that you know played just before you swapped out the receivers for a Hopper/Joey.

I'm seeing a lot of posts about multiple hours of archived programs... but not an indication that any of them definitely played within say the last month before you upgraded.

It is entirely possible you have recordings that wouldn't have played on your ViP receiver too, but just hadn't tried them in a while.

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#41 OFFLINE   js0873

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 04:02 PM

Since this appears to have been missed... I'll ask again...

For those having this problem. When is the last time you actually played one of these events on your non-Hopper system?


I played several of mine just before switching and they played normally. I also transferred a few to the EHD in the switch and several of those will no longer play. Prior to switching I never had any recording on an EHD that wouldn't play. Ever. And I had 3 722s, all connected with EHDs. On multiple hoppers I have the same issue now, so it's not an issue with a single hopper or a single EHD. Hope that helps.

#42 OFFLINE   Ijon_Tichy

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:26 PM

I played a few Voom recordings days before switching that now no longer work.

#43 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:37 PM

That's helpful. I hope you guys are including that info when you talk to Dish about the problems.

Like I said, I had some recordings that I didn't play for a long time that were corrupt and I never knew it... they were movies I had watched, but not after archiving... so I didn't know they had been corrupt for more than a year.

Without a Hopper, I can't test this myself... so I can only guess. Corrupt recordings were one way that made sense for some customers having this problem but not all... and I figured that would be helpful info for Dish to know.

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#44 OFFLINE   GeeWhiz1

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:38 AM

Just to add my 2 cents.

I have one recording that I made off of Voom on my 622. I tested it before my Hopper install to make sure that it still worked. It did. However, I did not watch the entire movie.

After seeing this thread, I tried to bring it up on my Hopper. As far as the menus go, it looks normal, including the option to "resume" playback. When I pressed resume, I got an error message 00.

I am not going to try to move it to the Hopper, but I am keeping it in hopes that they will fix this issue.

BTW, in a different thread I posted about my problem with my EHD not being found after each morning. P Smith suggested that I turn off the spin down on the EHD, but the drive is so old that the manufacturer does not provide software to do that. Since I had 2 Vip 622s, I had 2 EHDs. So I hooked up a hub and the second EHD. Now both EHDs show up without have to be rebooted. Weird. :-)
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#45 OFFLINE   PDSchweitzer

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:38 AM

I too have the same issue. I called Dish Tech Support over a week ago and was promised a call back within 2 days from the esclated tech support team - still nothing.

#46 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:52 PM

800 hours of unwatched content? Why? Do you back this up on redundant drives in case of a drive failure? Why not archive content you want to store semi-permanently or permanently in a format that is not just specific to your sat provider and can be played back through any media player? If you do change providers or Dish decides not to make EHD recorded content compatible with a system you are out and the content is gone anyway?

Have I been missing something WRT EHD and long term archiving of DVR content? Is this a right covered under fair use that Dish must protect for their subscribers?

Of course this is just me grumbling. I know Dish can't protect me from the DRM wars.

We've watched probably about half of the movies (maybe 600 hours of the content) and they get repeated from time to time on some channel and many of them are available to stream for free because we are Amazon Prime members.

The remaining 200 hours are shows I'm going to watch ...someday... right after I get caught up on the shows we really preferred to watch ...if getting caught up is possible... which it probably isn't.

You have to understand. If I didn't have the content I wouldn't care. But I have it. Uh..., buy some DVD/BD's to archive it? Well, I wouldn't go that far as it would be expensive.

I have a wall of "valuable" VHS tapes of movies recorded off of an SD receiver back when which should be thrown out. They now have TV shows about people like me - a hoarder. :sure:

But I'd prefer Dish fix this problem before I switch to a Hopper or whatever comes after it.;)

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#47 OFFLINE   kimball111

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

I discovered the nasty surprise about the Hopper not letting me view recordings from channels I no longer have. This applies to every recording from every channel I no longer have and persists to the present.

Playing a recording on my external drive also yields the 00 error most of the time. Selecting the recording a second time does enable me to watch it. This does not seem to happen to very recent recordings. I wonder if this happens every time they push out a new upgrade or some other periodic event.

#48 OFFLINE   Ijon_Tichy

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:14 AM

Update:

I chatted with Dish Support. Tech sent subscription signal to my Hopper. Problem still continues.

However, at the moment I am getting free EPIX (a weekend promotion I guess) and all (as far as I can tell) of my old EPIX recordings that did not work since switching to Hopper now work. Joy!

Now if only Dish can fix this bug for MGMHD, DISCHD, and Voom channels, I'll be happy.

#49 OFFLINE   Daniel

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

I don't think that they are going to fix it because it isn't a bug, it's a feature. IOW, it is working like they want it to. If you don't subscribe to a channel, you are not allowed to watch recordings from that channel.

#50 OFFLINE   js0873

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:14 PM

I don't think that they are going to fix it because it isn't a bug, it's a feature. IOW, it is working like they want it to. If you don't subscribe to a channel, you are not allowed to watch recordings from that channel.


Wrong, wrong, wrong. It's a bug, and Dish has admitted that it's a bug. I just hope it's fixed soon.




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