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American Idol (Top 7) - 04/11/2012


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Poll: Who were YOUR favorites tonite? (68 member(s) have cast votes)

Who were YOUR favorites tonite?

  1. Skylar Laine (10 votes [14.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.71%

  2. Colton Dixon (10 votes [14.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.71%

  3. Jessica Sanchez (14 votes [20.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.59%

  4. Joshua Ledet (9 votes [13.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.24%

  5. Hollie Cavanagh (8 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  6. Phillip Phillips, Jr. (7 votes [10.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.29%

  7. Elise Testone (10 votes [14.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.71%

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#51 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:21 AM

I got the sense that Jimmy was saying he thought he could "fix" her .. meaning singing is not the problem, it's the other performance stuff.

I agree he wasn't criticizing her singing. I just didn't think she deserved as much performance criticism as she got, especially given how much undue (IMO) performance praise Jessica got after Wednesday night's performance. I thought Hollie was much more "natural" this week than last. I guess Jimmy and Steven felt otherwise.
/steve

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#52 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:37 AM

All this talk about Jessica reminded me of Alison Iraheta, another 16-17 year old from season 8. I went back and listened to a couple of her performances, and I like her better than Jessica. She made it to the final 4, IIRC.



Her duet with Adam Lambert is still my favorite Idol duet to date. I've only been watching since season 5, however.


/steve

#53 ONLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:06 AM

...
With this group of judges...showing their views on their own "pet" favorites repeatedly...the save was very likely going to get used this week or next.


You keep mentioning pets, favorites & agendas. This happens every season and is nothing new. Simon was the worst offender of this.
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#54 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:19 AM

Absolutely .. There is always an agenda with these Judges. It's just part of the show.
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#55 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:31 AM

You keep mentioning pets, favorites & agendas. This happens every season and is nothing new. Simon was the worst offender of this.

Quite true.

It's just more blatent, obvious, and intrusive this year.
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#56 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:31 AM

And that was a "Pia Moment", folks. The only surprise was that it came while the SAVE was still unused. There is no telling how many more we'll see.

Now that they have forced the judges hands, I suspect we'll see teenyboppers voting with their groins and not their heads until the end of the season.
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#57 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:33 AM

What became clear last night is that the judges ranted and raved and then used their only "save" for the season in order to save face as they seemed to be totally out of sync with the voting public results.


The "save" was created so that when America either becomes complacent, or gets one wrong, the judges can save them. Daughtry was the reason the "save" was created, and the judges used the save on some people who simply didn't deserve it, but I think the judges (well, at least Randy and Steven considering Jennifer wanted to use it on Heejun and DeAndre) learned their lesson.


Just my .02, and I'm a big fan of hers, but I thought Jessica was squeaking out her save song so poorly last night, JLo had no choice but to run on stage to stop the bleeding. Had she been allowed to continue that "DeAndre" imitation (IMO), it might have been much harder for the judges to justify the save. I actually cringed when Ryan asked Jessica to "sing us out!"

Song choice will be more important than ever next week. If Jessica picks the wrong song, she could be last in next week's voting too.


Some people do well with their "save me" song, others let their emotions and nerves get to them. I didn't think it was bad per se, but it was a poor job for her. I disagree that the judges saved her to keep her from singing. I think it was simply a case where there was no need to continue to put her through the emotional wringer when they would have been complete fools to let her leave.

Most likely... she'll be safe next week regardless of her song choice. Last night will rally her fan base.

Will Hollie go home next, or will it be Skylar, Elise, or Joshua?! :confused:

The result added context to Ryan's question to Randy earlier in the night. When they were showing the clip of Jessica skatting the night before, and Ryan asked Randy something like, "After watching Jessica's performance again, do you still feel the same way about it tonight?".


There's usually hints in advance... but without the knowledge beforehand, it can be difficult to discern what's real, or what's a fake-out.

~Alan

#58 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:39 AM

The show seems to be evolving in some ways from a singing talent and popularity contest to only a popularity contest.


As evidenced by Jessica, Joshua, and Elise being in the Bottom Three last night... :(

Both Missy and I agreed that last nights save was scripted and the reported results were false. This was done to create drama. Ryan Seacrest even tweeted “there is a result tonight on @AmericanIdol that some would say is very shocking”.
Jessica's very feeble, half hearted and squeaking attempt to perform her save was the cue for J-LO to run up on stage and do her emoting. Even Steve T. announced that the save card will be used before the loser was announced.
This was all planned.


I gave Jessica and Joshua 100% chance of being saved if they were in the Bottom Three, and Elise 50%/50%. Steven Tyler later said that when he saw the Bottom Three, he knew they'd be using the save regardless of which one it was.

Yeah, Ryan said there would be shocking results the day of Pia's elimination last year as well.

Nigel stated that the voting on Wednesday night was interesting after stating he felt the judges were too hard on Hollie.

I strongly disagree that it was staged/planned. It's been obvious for several years now... particularly last year when Howdy Doodie won.

~Alan

#59 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:41 AM

The "save" was created so that when America either becomes complacent, or gets one wrong, the judges can save them. Daughtry was the reason the "save" was created, and the judges used the save on some people who simply didn't deserve it, but I think the judges (well, at least Randy and Steven considering Jennifer wanted to use it on Heejun and DeAndre) learned their lesson.

I suspect you are 98% right on target with that all Alan.

Both how Pia and Daughtry were prematurely ousted likely contributed to where things are today. I commend the producers to come up with that solution.

It's the actual choice made by the judges that people will debate. I suspect it's much tougher this year where a clear-cut favorite (or even two) have not yet emerged this late in the competition among a longer list of talented final 7 than in the past.

There are times it is easy to forget we have a number of sub 18 year olds and other very young competitors on this list - alot of talent in this group.
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#60 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:42 AM

There's usually hints in advance... but without the knowledge beforehand, it can be difficult to discern what's real, or what's a fake-out.

I'm pretty sure Ryan knows the exact results beforehand, so he and the director can script/orchestrate/rehearse the "building the bottom three" parts of the show.
/steve

#61 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:58 AM

I was really surprised that Elise, Jessica, and Joshua were in the bottom three on the results show, and perhaps Jessica and Joshua being in the B3 was what Ryan alluded to in his tweet? I'm positive Jessica was never in the B3 before, but I'm not sure about Joshua.


I told my Uncle recently that Joshua had never been in the bottom three, which was technically correct, but I was partially wrong. During the Top 13 week's result show, they did a Bottom Six (guys and gals).

Top 13 Week: Jeremy, Elise, Jermaine, Erika, Shannon, and Joshua
Top 11 Week: Shannon, Erika, and Elise
Top 10 Week: Erika, DeAndre, and Heejun
Top 9 Week: Heejun, Hollie, and Skylar
Top 8 Week: DeAndre, Elise, and Hollie
Top 7 Week: Jessica, Joshua, and Elise


When the final result came and it was Jessica, I was even MORE surprised, but I guess this is probably due to complacency by the voters: Jessica is praised so much, everyone probably thinks she's safe, so no one votes for her because they think everyone else is voting for her.


I think a LOT of people were probably voting for Hollie...

This means next week two performers go home, right? So it will be a critical performance night next week, dropping from seven to the top five in one night...


I did the math... one goes home next week.

~Alan

#62 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:04 PM

I don't think it would have been used for Hollie. Steven made that pretty clear with his comments after her performance Wednesday night. I didn't agree with what he had to say, but if he really felt that way, no way he was going to save her, IMO. I also thought Phillip's and Skylar's chances at being saved may have been 50/50.

EDITED TO ADD: Now that I think about it, ironically, Steven may have saved Hollie for another week because of his comments Wednesday night. She got the sympathy vote. :P

I was also surprised Jimmy was so tough on Hollie's performance last night. I didn't expect him to pile on like that.


I got the sense that Jimmy was saying he thought he could "fix" her .. meaning singing is not the problem, it's the other performance stuff.


I agree he wasn't criticizing her singing. I just didn't think she deserved as much performance criticism as she got, especially given how much undue (IMO) performance praise Jessica got after Wednesday night's performance. I thought Hollie was much more "natural" this week than last. I guess Jimmy and Steven felt otherwise.


Yeah, he's called the judges out before, I expected him to do it again.

Everything I've read has shown people thought they were too harsh on her performance... even Nigel Lythgoe said so, so I expected Jimmy to say something. Apparently not...

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#63 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:10 PM

All this talk about Jessica reminded me of Alison Iraheta, another 16-17 year old from season 8. I went back and listened to a couple of her performances, and I like her better than Jessica. She made it to the final 4, IIRC.



Her duet with Adam Lambert is still my favorite Idol duet to date. I've only been watching since season 5, however.


They're completely different in my mind, so I can't say I like her any better than Jessica. Did she only do one duet with Adam? If so, I purchased it on iTunes.

Speaking of Allison, her album is pretty good... I own it. It's got multiple songs on it I like, but there's one I LOVE called "Scars." Give it a listen... :)

~Alan

#64 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:14 PM

You keep mentioning pets, favorites & agendas. This happens every season and is nothing new. Simon was the worst offender of this.


Quite true.

It's just more blatent, obvious, and intrusive this year.


Is it... or is it that you just disagree with it more this year?! :P


People I know have been turned off by the judges' being asked after the performances who were the best of the night, and who was in trouble. I was extremely glad when the refused on Wednesday night.

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#65 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:25 PM

And that was a "Pia Moment", folks. The only surprise was that it came while the SAVE was still unused. There is no telling how many more we'll see.

Now that they have forced the judges hands, I suspect we'll see teenyboppers voting with their groins and not their heads until the end of the season.


I cannot disagree...

I'm thankful at least that as long as Phillip is on, it will still be interesting to me at least. :D

I suspect you are 98% right on target with that all Alan.

Both how Pia and Daughtry were prematurely ousted likely contributed to where things are today. I commend the producers to come up with that solution.

It's the actual choice made by the judges that people will debate. I suspect it's much tougher this year where a clear-cut favorite (or even two) have not yet emerged this late in the competition among a longer list of talented final 7 than in the past.

There are times it is easy to forget we have a number of sub 18 year olds and other very young competitors on this list - alot of talent in this group.


I think anybody looking at it objectively will not debate their choice.

As for a clear-cut favorite (or even two)? Phillip is a WGWG, and Colton is a WGWP.

Just sayin'.... ;)

I'm pretty sure Ryan knows the exact results beforehand, so he and the director can script/orchestrate/rehearse the "building the bottom three" parts of the show.


Absolutely. As I've said multiple times, Nigel was even commenting on the voting being interesting on Wednesday night. I was referring to us watching at home.

It was pretty obvious to me that whenever they put Hollie and Jessica on two different sides, that Jessica was probably in the Bottom Three. I had my suspicions prior to that, but that was the clincher for me.


Here's a little tidbit though. There have been years in the past where the person who goes home, would be heavily featured in the Ford Music Video that week. Unless it was edited the day of the result show, it may have been coincidence, but it was that way a LOT... so you'd usually get a heads-up. Last night when Elise was the dragon lady, I had to wonder... LOL!! I brushed it off though because that hasn't been the case lately...

~Alan

#66 OFFLINE   Maruuk

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:22 AM

It's important to remember that the judges hear the performances very differently than we do at home, the acoustics of the hall, the mob screaming behind them, the PA sound bouncing around, all these major factors can really change your opinion of a given performance. Thus Randy revising his thoughts on hearing Jessica at home. In the hall it's all excitement and echoes and weird mixes. At home it's clean and relatively naked, and you can totally hear when pitch is off. They can't fake their way though the TV audio. That's why the judges mis-judge pitch a lot live. They often call a singer out on pitch when at home you can hear it's fine. TV audio does not lie.

It's kind of ridiculous at this point: Jessica is 1,000% better than anybody else--Jimmy basically says it, the judges basically just said it during the save, there literally is no contest anymore.

But. Jessica does not sing anything a kid would want to listen to. She sings diva songs and mature R&B stuff, she sings like a polished 40-year old. Not hip at all. Adult music. What 14-23 year old would buy her records? Nobody. She's in that whole Whitney-Celine-Blige bag and truly kills it, but she's way out of her own demo, and that's a problem for a 16 year old.

Add to the confusion those at home voting on looks, age, gender, whatever. The home voters have proven themselves to be seriously flaky vis a vis being able to reward true talent over charisma and sex appeal.

Though I wouldn't mind if the voters would just do their job and cut through all the judges' crapola and simply vote for a true idol: someone beautiful, sexy and cool who can sing relevant, contemporary, ORIGINAL pop-rock with a 14-23 year old demo appeal. THAT is what American Idol is supposed to be about, but rarely is. It's more of an AOR Glee-fest.

And we hear there is this mass of hysterical 12 year old girls who do most of the voting. I wouldn't doubt it based on some of the bottom three groupings.

Gotta love Jimmy's Phillip analysis echoing what I've been saying from the very beginning: Phillip clones Dave Mathews. More to the point, he literally APES him. Style, voice, even looks somewhat. Even wardrobe. DM always wears those junky clothes on stage, hence Phillip's predilection for grunge duds. I mean, if you want DM, buy his music. Who needs a second DM? I can't even stand ONE DM, never mind two.

Skylar is just another in a long line of spitkicker trailer trash ugly Gretchen Wilson Redneck Woman clones. Idol cranks these out like a string of fat sausages, pandering to the evangelical gun-toting bible-thumpers. It's truly pathetic and demeaning to music in general.

Holly seems not to be getting a square deal. Weird criticisms from the judges over pitch. That's baloney, no pitch problems there. She's better than they give her credit for, they're doing a bag job on her. She was a little physically stiff in her last performance, but so was Joshua almost grotesquely, let's just call it, "stylizing".

An almost satirical stereotyping of a mincing, flouncing gay man. But the judges just ate it up. Now Joshua is an attractive, talented and exciting performer. But his stage act as realized on Idol is only appropriate for a gay club. Which is fine, no problem, that's beautiful. More power to him. But why are the judges completely ignoring that 800 lb. gorilla in the room? They're quick to savage anyone for stylizing with Broadway musical stage mannerisms as inappropriate for the show. So a performer's mannerisms are fair game. And Joshua's mannerisms are overt and extreme. I guess political correctness rules over sanity with the judges.

Now you might say Adam Lambert made that work. I'd say no, we're not talking at all about being gay per se, that's irrelevant. We're talking about only a performer's mannerisms on stage, what they communicate through body language. Adam didn't mince, flounce, skip or diva it up. He simply kicked ass every time out. He was obviously gay, but wasn't awkwardly trying to emulate or impersonate female mannerisms in his act. Two entirely different presentations. And sexual preference independent.

Colton's great, an all-too-rare actual POP-ROCK performer in the making on the show. As opposed to country-pop pap. He's top 3 for sure.

Elise, she's a band singer. A pretty good one. There are Elises all over America at Six Flags and in bars and at country fairs. She has neither the looks nor the voice nor the uniqueness to ever sell a single recording. There's just nothing special about her at this level. She's getting votes at this point on sheer likeability which is ok. But an Idol? Please.

Jessica obviously deserves it. But can she survive singing middle-aged lady material at age 16? And like they said of Obama, is America ready for an Asian American Idol? I hope so, because she's a freaking Phenomenon. And everybody knows it.

Edited by Maruuk, 14 April 2012 - 04:40 AM.


#67 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:40 AM

Jessica does not sing anything a kid would want to listen to. She sings diva songs and mature R&B stuff, she sings like a polished 40-year old. Not hip at all. Adult music. What 14-23 year old would buy her records? Nobody. She's in that whole Whitney-Celine-Blige bag and truly kills it, but she's way out of her own demo, and that's a problem for a 16 year old.

Same problem Charice had, I guess. I do think Charice was/is more polished than Jessica, but then again, I never listened to Charice "singing for her life" in a competition.
/steve

#68 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:00 AM

It really would be great to hear Jessica tackle something modern from an artist her age, like Selena Gomez' "Love You Like A Love Song".

It's never really explained on the show, but my understanding is that it takes a lot to get clearances for song rights, so when the contestants have to deal with deadlines to pick a song, get those rights and work out the arrangements, I'm sure they can't always pick the songs they'd like...

#69 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:22 AM

Inspired partly by Wednesday's vote no doubt, the contestants will be singing two songs next week.

I still haven't read a theme...

~Alan

#70 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

[...] It's never really explained on the show, but my understanding is that it takes a lot to get clearances for song rights, so when the contestants have to deal with deadlines to pick a song, get those rights and work out the arrangements, I'm sure they can't always pick the songs they'd like...


Agree. I heard/read/saw somewhere (so take this with a grain...) that the kids pick songs from lists that AI provides, but if he/she wants a song not on the lists, they have to wait for Fox or Freemantle/19 Entertainment to get it cleared (not sure who).
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#71 OFFLINE   Maruuk

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:02 AM

It was so refreshing when they finally offered a repertoire of songs to the performers from the last 2 years. Contemporary (last 2-3 years) pop/rock/R&B/hip-hop/Alt-Rock is seriously under-represented. Country pop of all periods is hideously OVER-represented.

How awesome would it be to hear Jessica sing a Shawn Colvin or a KT Dunstall or even a zillion times better, a St. Vincent tune?? She desperately needs to break out of her safe little middle-aged diva cocoon and prove her bones in the Alt-pop arena. And I think she could kill in that zone!

#72 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:43 AM

Agree. I heard/read/saw somewhere (so take this with a grain...) that the kids pick songs from lists that AI provides, but if he/she wants a song not on the lists, they have to wait for Fox or Freemantle/19 Entertainment to get it cleared (not sure who).


I think it's doubly-hard sometimes because I'm pretty certain that AI basically asks if it's OK to use the song but won't pay any money for it (assumes exposure is worth enough). Not all artists will allow their work to be presented on AI. It's probably easier for some songs than it is for others.

I suspect James' Uprising from last year fell into the "Heck Yeah!" category for Muse with regard to getting it cleared. AI is still a great way to get exposure.
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#73 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:59 AM

In the end...I must admit that while I disagree with the judging at times....this is quite the talented group this year.

As others have noted, in some cases, song selection has simply done-in certain contestants one week or another.

It would not be surprising at all to learn afterwards...that this year's group has a larger number of contracted artists than in past years.

Talent abounds.
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#74 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

How awesome would it be to hear Jessica sing a Shawn Colvin or a KT Dunstall or even a zillion times better, a St. Vincent tune?? She desperately needs to break out of her safe little middle-aged diva cocoon and prove her bones in the Alt-pop arena. And I think she could kill in that zone!


I know better than to reply to a post from you, but I just have to this time.

I haven't heard anything new from KT in years, nor Shawn Colvin since the song that was used as the theme song to "Suddenly Susan." I don't even know who St. Vincent is...

Shawn Colvin is 56 and is a completely different style than Jessica. Jazmine Sullivan is 25, and sings the style of music that Jessica says she wants to perform.

I'm sorry... but as usual, I strongly disagree. :confused:

~Alan

#75 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:46 AM

I know better than to reply to a post from you, but I just have to this time.

I haven't heard anything new from KT in years, nor Shawn Colvin since the song that was used as the theme song to "Suddenly Susan." I don't even know who St. Vincent is...

Shawn Colvin is 56 and is a completely different style than Jessica. Jazmine Sullivan is 25, and sings the style of music that Jessica says she wants to perform.

I'm sorry... but as usual, I strongly disagree. :confused:

~Alan


You may not care for Maruuk's post, but you have to agree they are thought-provoking. There is no gray in what Maruuk thinks... just pure black and white. I respect that, and I tend to log it in under "personal opinion" when I disagree. :)

p.s. KT sounds great on "Suddenly I see". I love Shawn's rendition of Gnarls "Crazy". St. Vincent's "Paris is Burning" should be a nice introduction for you.

Edited by Henry, 16 April 2012 - 11:55 AM.

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