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HBO & composite cables


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89 replies to this topic

#81 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 03:46 PM

Plain stupid. :(

Say, You got a Sharp TV, it doesn't work well because of "Muthsui" bad capacitors.
Well - you must complain to the "Mithsui" ! Duh !

You get an agreement with the provider for a service and an equipment, it's full responsibility of the company.
No need to point to others (do you have proof of that ? No ! Then it would be your opinion, not a fact).


Pull your head out of you know where... You know darn well that the movie companies have demanded this. It's been discussed all over dbstalk.
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#82 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:01 PM

I guess where I am lost is that the aim of analog sunset was to kill off HD by non-digital (read controllable) means but the directv implementation kills SD out of composite outputs if hdmi is not present.

And it suggests using component cables instead of hdmi?

Isn't this backwards? Anybody can explain?
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#83 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:55 PM

HDCP comes from the content providers


Seems to me you don't understand whole chain of actions of the procedure ...

1st, a content provider do not send DRM mark/cmd to your DVR - it has a DTV special format what only particular box's FW could 'understand' that;
2nd - the DRM data inserting into system tables when whole channel or some event would be treated on high security level;
3rd - the DRM data triggering special handshake process in DTV's FW (content provider doesn't have any access to all the stages! ) when the event come to view or recording or copy, etc
4th - HDCP [protocol] executed between two chips - one controlled by host [say DVR], other by target [say TV] - after checking ids and keys the chips established secure [encrypted] connection and will use it while DRM data dictate to support it during transferring AV streams.

Everything from above has nothing to do with the content provider. Everything designed [HW], programmed [FW] controlled[system tables] at DTV side.

#84 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:23 AM

Seems to me you don't understand whole chain of actions of the procedure ...

1st, a content provider do not send DRM mark/cmd to your DVR - it has a DTV special format what only particular box's FW could 'understand' that;
2nd - the DRM data inserting into system tables when whole channel or some event would be treated on high security level;
3rd - the DRM data triggering special handshake process in DTV's FW (content provider doesn't have any access to all the stages! ) when the event come to view or recording or copy, etc
4th - HDCP [protocol] executed between two chips - one controlled by host [say DVR], other by target [say TV] - after checking ids and keys the chips established secure [encrypted] connection and will use it while DRM data dictate to support it during transferring AV streams.

Everything from above has nothing to do with the content provider. Everything designed [HW], programmed [FW] controlled[system tables] at DTV side.


seems to me you dont understand carriage/retransmission contracts..... if a contract states you will only retransmit my content in a certain manner then that contract must bo honored. The only people that are having issues with this particular problem, either have out of date equipment or are mirroring other devices off of a system not meant for multiple outputs..i.e. (too cheap to get a receiver for each TV).....you reap what you sow
My comments and opinions are my own and not necessarily those of DirecTV.

#85 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:08 AM

Everything from above has nothing to do with the content provider. Everything designed [HW], programmed [FW] controlled[system tables] at DTV side.


What you don't seem to get here is that all of that was put in place because HBO, Cinemax, etc, demanded it. DirecTV didn't do it on a whim to piss off customers.
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#86 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:43 AM

What you don't seem to get here is that all of that was put in place because HBO, Cinemax, etc, demanded it. DirecTV didn't do it on a whim to piss off customers.


Exactly, while DirecTV is obviously the one putting the HDCP signal into their stream they are doing so according to the request/demand from the channel owner (namely HBO, Cinemax, and I think Starz/Encore now too).

I guess where I am lost is that the aim of analog sunset was to kill off HD by non-digital (read controllable) means but the directv implementation kills SD out of composite outputs if hdmi is not present.

And it suggests using component cables instead of hdmi?

Isn't this backwards? Anybody can explain?


You're confusing two different things. Analog sunset is something completely seperate of HDCP.

HDCP is used to maek sure there isn't some sort of capture device hooked up to the HDMI output allowing a person to make a perfect digital copy of the program, and stuff like that. In this case it so happens that when the HDCP handshake fails the DirecTV receiver locks down all video outputs, not just the HDMI output. I'm not sure that this was necessarily requested/demanded by the channel providers, or if it was just the easiest way for DirecTV to implement HDCP. I'm thinking they might be able to keep the other video ouputs working correctly while shutting off the HDMI output but it would be a lot more difficult so they haven't bothered to do so because the vast majority of people will never be effected by this. The only people who are effected are people who are using a receiver to feed more than one TV from multiple outputs, which I don't think was ever anything DirecTV approved of, they just didn't care enough to keep it from happening because they knew most people wouldn't do it.

Analog sunset is the eventual lockdown of component video outputs so they can only output 480p as a maximum resolution. This is usually done by including something called the Image Constraint Token (or ICT). When they embed the ICT information into a programs data it tells whatever device is playing it that it has to downscale that material to 480p if component video is being used. The Blu-Ray association is supposed to start using the ICT flag soon but I don't think they have started yet. The only Blu-Ray I ever heard of having the ICT flag set on it was a European version of one of the Resident Evil movies, and the studio said it was done by mistake and offered replacement discs to people who had problems with it. I have never heard of any talk so far of the cable/satellite TV providers starting to use ICT. But, I can see it happening eventually if Blu-Ray starts using it and there isn't a huge backlash.

Edited by Beerstalker, 18 July 2012 - 10:53 AM.

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#87 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:12 PM

Exactly, while DirecTV is obviously the one putting the HDCP signal into their stream they are doing so according to the request/demand from the channel owner (namely HBO, Cinemax, and I think Starz/Encore now too).



You're confusing two different things. Analog sunset is something completely seperate of HDCP.

HDCP is used to maek sure there isn't some sort of capture device hooked up to the HDMI output allowing a person to make a perfect digital copy of the program, and stuff like that. In this case it so happens that when the HDCP handshake fails the DirecTV receiver locks down all video outputs, not just the HDMI output. I'm not sure that this was necessarily requested/demanded by the channel providers, or if it was just the easiest way for DirecTV to implement HDCP. I'm thinking they might be able to keep the other video ouputs working correctly while shutting off the HDMI output but it would be a lot more difficult so they haven't bothered to do so because the vast majority of people will never be effected by this. The only people who are effected are people who are using a receiver to feed more than one TV from multiple outputs, which I don't think was ever anything DirecTV approved of, they just didn't care enough to keep it from happening because they knew most people wouldn't do it.

Analog sunset is the eventual lockdown of component video outputs so they can only output 480p as a maximum resolution. This is usually done by including something called the Image Constraint Token (or ICT). When they embed the ICT information into a programs data it tells whatever device is playing it that it has to downscale that material to 480p if component video is being used. The Blu-Ray association is supposed to start using the ICT flag soon but I don't think they have started yet. The only Blu-Ray I ever heard of having the ICT flag set on it was a European version of one of the Resident Evil movies, and the studio said it was done by mistake and offered replacement discs to people who had problems with it. I have never heard of any talk so far of the cable/satellite TV providers starting to use ICT. But, I can see it happening eventually if Blu-Ray starts using it and there isn't a huge backlash.


Thanks. That makes more sense. The conversation was not clear to me. Sounds like DirecTV took the easy (only?) way to shut down the digital output which was to shut everything off.
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#88 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:05 PM

I am seeing the "Replace cable" msg on Encore stations. I have never seen this before. I am guessing it is related to the HDCP in some way. I am running my DirecTV HR-34 into a Logitech Revue via HDMI cable, then into a HDMI Switcher that was recommended in one of the threads here... then another HDMI cable into my Samsung plasma TV. If I would run the HR-34 directly into the Samsung would the Encore stations be viewable?

#89 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:24 PM

I am seeing the "Replace cable" msg on Encore stations. I have never seen this before. I am guessing it is related to the HDCP in some way. I am running my DirecTV HR-34 into a Logitech Revue via HDMI cable, then into a HDMI Switcher that was recommended in one of the threads here... then another HDMI cable into my Samsung plasma TV. If I would run the HR-34 directly into the Samsung would the Encore stations be viewable?


yes
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#90 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:07 PM

yes


That did the trick... TY for the quick response Wahooq.




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