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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Picture Quality of DirecTV


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52 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:40 AM

I think I need to comment on MPEG-4 bit rates.
They're a bit hard to quantify since they vary so much.
Using DirecTV2PC you can see the rate in seconds, and it can be down as low as 1 or 2 Mb/s, and then be over 14 Mb/s, depending of the image content.
Collecting [sampling] over time tends to give a better idea.

I've downloaded HBO VOD through a 5 Mb/s connection and had 1:1 HD for a good 10 programs, which surprised me and the PQ didn't show any loss. :confused:

I was able to compare DirecTV & U-verse by streaming the same program sync'd within a second or so, and monitored each of the router port's traffic over many minutes.

"I think" the general difference is that DirecTV passes the peak high bit-rates much more than U-verse.

Dish does reduce their 1080i by 25%, so there is a savings, but it looks like they go further and may also cap the peak rates too.

Looking at the total file size should give a good overall idea.
The U-verse DVR [sent mine back over a month ago] did have a higher number of hours for HD than my HR2x, with the same size drive, which generally matched the bit-rate difference I measured.
A.K.A VOS

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#42 OFFLINE   oldengineer

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:56 AM

Hey VOS, let's try an experiment. I have the AEP with E* so I can record most anything. Can we pick a few shows and compare results. One good one would be the Flyers/Devils game on NBC Sports tonight. Maybe we can get a better handle on this.

2H/1J


#43 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

I assumed it was a decimal representation ...


Yes if the Hopper is reading in decimal then your previous calculations are correct, but if binary then the numbers are slightly higher was my point.

... If it was a "binary" representation 2**30 = 1.074 exp 9 so the extra multiplier would be closer to 1.074 than 1.024 right?


Only if you are converting from "bytes" to binary "GBs." If you are converting only one step from GB to MB though its 1024. That is to say its a factor of 1024 per step for binary to binary conversion. This is why the 2**30 figure you quoted is also equal to 1024 * 1024 * 1024.

... Even so it doesn't come close to what VOS says what D*s bitrate is. OTOH with a good LCD TV I can switch the resolution to 720X480P and watch a 16:9 picture and scenes without a lot of action still look good.


Did you mean the 720p HD format which is 1280 x 720?

... BTW my calcs are megabits per second. Excuse the upper case on the b.


No problem ... :)

#44 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:07 AM

Hey VOS, let's try an experiment. I have the AEP with E* so I can record most anything. Can we pick a few shows and compare results. One good one would be the Flyers/Devils game on NBC Sports tonight. Maybe we can get a better handle on this.

You would pick something I wouldn't watch. :lol:
So what do you want to do, or what is AEP?
A.K.A VOS

#45 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:44 AM

You would pick something I wouldn't watch. :lol:
So what do you want to do, or what is AEP?


dish Networks' "America's Everything Pak" I would assume. :)

http://www.dish.com/...everything-pak/

#46 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:49 AM

dish Networks' "America's Everything Pak" I would assume. :)

http://www.dish.com/...everything-pak/

Then how could this be used to measure bit rates?
I'll be glad to record something and try to quantify the bit rate, but someone with Dish needs to be able to do the same to get to "apples and apples".
A.K.A VOS

#47 OFFLINE   oldengineer

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:51 AM

Yes if the Hopper is reading in decimal then your previous calculations are correct, but if binary then the numbers are slightly higher was my point.



Only if you are converting from "bytes" to binary "GBs." If you are converting only one step from GB to MB though its 1024. That is to say its a factor of 1024 per step for binary to binary conversion. This is why the 2**30 figure you quoted is also equal to 1024 * 1024 * 1024.



Did you mean the 720p HD format which is 1280 x 720?



No problem ... :)


If an entity refers to a "binary" 1K it represents 2**10 = 1024 (decimal) things, or 1.024 times whatever things represents.

If an entity refers to a "binary" 1G it represents 2**30 = 1.074 exp 9 (decimal) things or 1.074 times whatever things represents.

Since the file sizes listed are between 1 and 2 G I say that 1.074 is the better multiplier, but then I've been retired for 5 years and I don't think as good as I used to.:)

2H/1J


#48 OFFLINE   oldengineer

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:59 AM

You would pick something I wouldn't watch. :lol:
So what do you want to do, or what is AEP?


I won't watch the whole thing either because I'm a Flyers fan and also a jinx. The reason I suggested it was because it's a 3+ hour sports show with lots of fast moving scenes.

As noted AEP is the E* everything pack. Pick some shows that interest you and I'll also record it, and we'll be able to compare apples to apples.

2H/1J


#49 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:02 PM

Then how could this be used to measure bit rates?
I'll be glad to record something and try to quantify the bit rate, but someone with Dish needs to be able to do the same to get to "apples and apples".


Oh I don't think oldengineer meant the programming package can be used as a specific methodology to compare bitrates, but means that the package has more than an ample supply of available channels in which many are sure to coincide with those carried in any DIRECTV package to make for a good representative cross-sample of programs for comparing bitrates between the two providers.

Edited by HoTat2, 03 May 2012 - 12:46 PM.


#50 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:13 PM

I won't watch the whole thing either because I'm a Flyers fan and also a jinx. The reason I suggested it was because it's a 3+ hour sports show with lots of fast moving scenes.

As noted AEP is the E* everything pack. Pick some shows that interest you and I'll also record it, and we'll be able to compare apples to apples.

I was hoping you'd have some way of monitoring the feed.
Trying to compare "viewing" isn't worth much, because our systems [TV, etc.] aren't the same.
You get to read the file size on the drive, but I don't, "other than" knowing 1 hr takes 1% of a drive with 400 GBs, which is about the crudest measurement
possible.
A.K.A VOS

#51 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:43 PM

If an entity refers to a "binary" 1K it represents 2**10 = 1024 (decimal) things, or 1.024 times whatever things represents....


Correct.

... If an entity refers to a "binary" 1G it represents 2**30 = 1.074 exp 9 (decimal) things or 1.074 times whatever things represents.


True again;

But what I'm explaining is if you are converting say a binary 1K to the amount this is in GBs. Then its the 1K / 1024 * 1024 or ~9.54 * 10**-7 GB . Or vice-versa for how much a binary 1G would be in equivalent KBs is the 1G * 1024 * 1024 or ~ 1049 KBs.

#52 OFFLINE   oldengineer

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 03:38 PM

I was hoping you'd have some way of monitoring the feed.
Trying to compare "viewing" isn't worth much, because our systems [TV, etc.] aren't the same.
You get to read the file size on the drive, but I don't, "other than" knowing 1 hr takes 1% of a drive with 400 GBs, which is about the crudest measurement
possible.


I guess this ends it then unless another D* sub who can get an accurate count wants to try. I don't have any sophisticated monitoring equipment but I assume the byte counter in the Hopper is accurate, and it at least pretends to be since it gives counts to 3 decimal places (better than a slide rule):)

Another data point 1 hr Law & Order - 1.956GB = 4.347Mb/s bit rate

2H/1J


#53 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:15 PM

IAnother data point 1 hr Law & Order - 1.956GB = 4.347Mb/s bit rate

Which is "generally" half of what it would be with DirecTV.
A.K.A VOS




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