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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Can't Decide...Convince Me To Switch To Dish and The Hopper!


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55 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   dennispap

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 05:26 PM

There isn't a MyNetwork now, at least in my DMA.


http://www.mynetwork...om/stations.php

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   Skarzon

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:52 PM

Didn't want to start a new thread as there are tons out there, but I am in the same boat as the thread starter and am also contemplating switching from D* to Dish.

I currently have 8 TV's (3 bedrooms, master, family room, office, garage and basement). I want HD in all rooms (not required in the garage) with DVR functionality and whole home DVR. I am pretty sure this will require 2 Hoppers and 6 Joeys (correct?).

What is the best way to sign up? I tried online and the price was crazy high (over $500) for the initial setup and fees, so I must be doing something wrong.

Do I have to play CSR roulette like you do with D* if I call?

What options should I look for (what's cool about Dish that a D* sub wouldn't be aware of)?

Are there different physical dish setups (like SWiM 8, 16... on D*)?

I will eventually want to increase the TV's to at least 10, how can I future proof the setup?

What freebies should I be asking for?

Is there a "new sub" checklist or walk through?

I'm probably going to give D* one chance to take care of a long standing customer (10 years), but Dish is really looking like a great alternative.

It's amazing how disruptive switching providers can be and I want to make it as painless as possible.

Thanks in advance!

#23 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:16 PM

I am pretty sure this will require 2 Hoppers and 6 Joeys (correct?).

The current limit is 2 Hoppers and 4 Joeys. You can modulate the output of a Hopper or Joey and use it in a second location (showing the same content on both/all sets).

I'm not sure how you got to $500 online ... the last I checked it followed the 4 Hopper/2 Joey limits which would be around $300 (plus monthly programming).

DISH's setup is based on a single "node" that feeds either one hopper (solo node) or two hoppers (duo node). Unlike SWM, the Joeys don't get a satellite signal ... they get a MoCA data signal from a Hopper. Each hopper receives the satellite signal (with three tuners per Hopper).

With as many sets as you have and the desire to add more I believe you have hit the wall. You really need more than two Hoppers ... and that is not a supported install.

#24 OFFLINE   Skarzon

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:27 PM

Thanks James, that really gives me something to think about. Do you know if there are plans to up the amount of hoppers you can have?

#25 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:40 PM

Thanks James, that really gives me something to think about. Do you know if there are plans to up the amount of hoppers you can have?

Nothing public but somewhere in the future I see it as an important improvement. NOT as important as a lot of the other stuff already on the list (intertwining two Hoppers, adding OTA) but limiting a home to six tuners forever? Not a good choice (in my opinion).

#26 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:58 PM

The current limit is 2 Hoppers and 4 Joeys. You can modulate the output of a Hopper or Joey and use it in a second location (showing the same content on both/all sets).


I thought that was just the limit of leased units and that you could buy past that.

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#27 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:19 PM

I thought that was just the limit of leased units and that you could buy past that.

That's one way to get into the $500+ range for equipment.

I have not seen three Hoppers mentioned ... and with so many looking at two Hoppers (and paying extra) before hitting three Joeys (DISH's threshold) one could run out of tuners quickly.

#28 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:21 PM

Do you know if there are plans to up the amount of hoppers you can have?

Check this out, over on the "other satellite forum" D.I.R.T. confirmed 3 Hoppers & 9 Joeys as the new maximum allowed. (Its actually been allowed for over a month now)
http://www.satellite...ew-maximum.html

Edited by coolman302003, 30 April 2012 - 09:29 PM.


#29 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:22 PM

Nothing public but somewhere in the future I see it as an important improvement. NOT as important as a lot of the other stuff already on the list (intertwining two Hoppers, adding OTA) but limiting a home to six tuners forever? Not a good choice (in my opinion).


I agree. While you or I might not need them in our homes... there are customers who do... and if they are willing to pay, why not let them have more tuners...

I thought that was just the limit of leased units and that you could buy past that.


With the Hoppers, I'm not sure that it isn't a technical limitation.

We have single node and dual node devices... these can only support 1 and 2 Hoppers respectively.

It's too early... but I don't know how many DPP44 (or similar) switches you can stack and also stack single/dual nodes for the Hoppers onto that.

It could be they just don't want to do that until they get more Hoppers in the field... they could just be waiting for the firmware that right now doesn't even support 2 Hoppers "seeing" each other as planned... or there could be some other limitation.

Perhaps, for example, only Hoppers on the dual node can see each other (when the firmware update comes)... maybe they have to create a triple node or something else to support another Hopper shared like that.

I think it is too early to say for sure (unless someone knows something I've missed) whether this is just a "not right now" situation OR if it is a technical limitation of the setup.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#30 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:32 AM

With the Hoppers, I'm not sure that it isn't a technical limitation.

We have single node and dual node devices... these can only support 1 and 2 Hoppers respectively.


Since each Hopper is designed to be able to support 3 Joeys, a logical conclusion would be that with 2 Hoppers you would get support for 6 Joeys. At least on the surface it seems that way.

But then I think about when they get the ability for 2 Hoppers to see each other, and what that means in the way of how many Joeys can be supported. I suspect that what will happen is that if Hopper #1 is providing video to 3 Joeys, that if a 4th one attempted to view something on that Hopper, it wouldn't be able to. Probably get an icon of some sort, similar to what you get with the HRs when someone is already using the single remote view that is allowed with them (up to the HR24 of course).

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#31 OFFLINE   patmurphey

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:06 AM

3 Hoppers and 9 Joeys have been approved for some customers - best to contact a DIRT team member for setup. The third Hopper and its Joeys will be an independent network for the foreseeable future.

#32 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:14 AM

3 Hoppers and 9 Joeys have been approved for some customers - best to contact a DIRT team member for setup. The third Hopper and its Joeys will be an independent network for the foreseeable future.


So basically one MRV network of 2 Hoppers + 6 Joeys on one network, and one Hopper + 3 Joeys on a seperate network, right?

That indicates that the 2 Hopper + 4 Joey limit is a lease limit and not a technical one at all. That is what I thought I read quite some time ago too.

Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#33 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:09 PM

So basically one MRV network of 2 Hoppers + 6 Joeys on one network, and one Hopper + 3 Joeys on a seperate network, right?

That indicates that the 2 Hopper + 4 Joey limit is a lease limit and not a technical one at all. That is what I thought I read quite some time ago too.


Actually... it sounds like it is both a lease limit and a technical one.

Since each Hopper supports 3 Joeys... 2 Hopper + 6 Joey should be the technical limit for that configuration. If they limit to 4 Joeys, that would be a lease limit not a technical one.

Now... it seems my guess was right about a third Hopper not being able to be linked into the other 2-Hopper network... so even though you can do it, it means those Joeys connected to that third Hopper will be outside the other network... so the "whole home" thing goes out the window even when they enable Hoppers to share with each other.

That, then, is a technical limitation that probably leads to a lease limit because it is easier to do that than field the calls from customers asking why their Joeys can't see their other Hoppers when people don't understand the multi-isolated-network thing.

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#34 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:09 PM

Since each Hopper supports 3 Joeys... 2 Hopper + 6 Joey should be the technical limit for that configuration. If they limit to 4 Joeys, that would be a lease limit not a technical one.

Perhaps ... but two hoppers four joeys is six devices using the MoCA bandwidth - which is a potential reason for a limit. Once Hoppers are tied together each device will need bandwidth to receive a signal from another device.

The original MoCA standard calls for up to eight devices on a channel ... two Hoppers and six Joeys would meet that standard (although the standards have improved since the original).

A separate system would require two DPP44s, a duo node for one pair of Hoppers and a solo node for the second Hopper. Or separate dishes for each system. Since the switches required to get five DPP feeds to serve the nodes provides eight DPP feeds, from a technical standpoint four Hoppers should be supported ... five if all eight DPP feeds are used.

#35 OFFLINE   n-spring

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:11 PM

Two things I've noticed with the Hopper....

DirecTV DVRs buffer the tuner for at least 90 minutes. At the time you switch to a tuner, as long as that tuner had not been moved off its channel, you could rewind previous to the time you switch to that tuner. Not so with the Hopper. You can only go back to the point at which you switched to that tuner. This only allows you to record the remainder of a program. You can't record the entire program because there is no buffer. This lack of buffer is a real bummer.

There is no double play feature on the Hopper, where you can pause one tuner, switch to the other, pause, and switch back to first tuner and resume watching. Probably related to the lack of buffer mentioned above.

Other than these two shortcomings, the Hopper/Joey offering is pretty solid. There have been a few minor problems since I installed about a month ago, but no show stoppers. PQ is as good if not better than DirecTV, even on HD.
DISH subscriber since March 2012
1000.2 HD dish antenna with Solo Node
Living room: XiP813 Hopper (S238) to Visio XVT553SV via HDMI; connected to 100Base-TX LAN
Home theatre: XiP110 Joey (S286) to Anthem Statement D2 via HDMI, then to Panasonic TC-P65VT50 via HDMI
Bedroom: XiP110 Joey (S286) to Sony KDL-26M3000 via HDMI
Internet access: Comcast 10Mb/s; Dynamic IP; NAT on Linksys E3200 router

#36 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:46 PM

PQ is as good if not better than DirecTV, even on HD.


Sad to say, this has not been the case for me. DirecTV's HD picture quality is better, sometimes much better, depending on the channel. But Dish's SD is worlds better than DirecTV's.

If I compare a Twins game on Fox Sports Net North HD, Dish is a fuzzy, blurry mess. DirecTV was sharp and clear. Frozen Planet on Discovery was pretty good on Dish, but there was a slight loss of detail and some macro blocking on Dish, none on DirecTV. The Tennis Channel feels like looking through dirty glass on Dish, was very sharp on DirecTV. ESPN looks the same to me.

On the other hand, Top Gear on BBC America is so much better as to be beyond comparison - since only Dish has it in HD, and DirecTV's SD makes worn out VHS look good.

#37 OFFLINE   n-spring

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:53 PM

Sad to say, this has not been the case for me. DirecTV's HD picture quality is better, sometimes much better, depending on the channel. But Dish's SD is worlds better than DirecTV's.


My point of reference is Hopper/Joey only. I stand by my statement. I switched from DirecTV to Dish in March.
DISH subscriber since March 2012
1000.2 HD dish antenna with Solo Node
Living room: XiP813 Hopper (S238) to Visio XVT553SV via HDMI; connected to 100Base-TX LAN
Home theatre: XiP110 Joey (S286) to Anthem Statement D2 via HDMI, then to Panasonic TC-P65VT50 via HDMI
Bedroom: XiP110 Joey (S286) to Sony KDL-26M3000 via HDMI
Internet access: Comcast 10Mb/s; Dynamic IP; NAT on Linksys E3200 router

#38 OFFLINE   bb83

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:31 PM

Two things I've noticed with the Hopper....

DirecTV DVRs buffer the tuner for at least 90 minutes. At the time you switch to a tuner, as long as that tuner had not been moved off its channel, you could rewind previous to the time you switch to that tuner. Not so with the Hopper. You can only go back to the point at which you switched to that tuner. This only allows you to record the remainder of a program. You can't record the entire program because there is no buffer. This lack of buffer is a real bummer.

There is no double play feature on the Hopper, where you can pause one tuner, switch to the other, pause, and switch back to first tuner and resume watching. Probably related to the lack of buffer mentioned above.

Other than these two shortcomings, the Hopper/Joey offering is pretty solid. There have been a few minor problems since I installed about a month ago, but no show stoppers. PQ is as good if not better than DirecTV, even on HD.


You can double play with the hopper. Use the swap button to switch between the the two tuners. you can pause, swap to other tuner and swap back to first tuner. the swap feature is always on. you don't need to enable it like on the HRs. This acts more like the old sony tivos.

#39 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:25 PM

Two things I've noticed with the Hopper....

DirecTV DVRs buffer the tuner for at least 90 minutes. At the time you switch to a tuner, as long as that tuner had not been moved off its channel, you could rewind previous to the time you switch to that tuner. Not so with the Hopper. You can only go back to the point at which you switched to that tuner. This only allows you to record the remainder of a program. You can't record the entire program because there is no buffer. This lack of buffer is a real bummer.

There is no double play feature on the Hopper, where you can pause one tuner, switch to the other, pause, and switch back to first tuner and resume watching. Probably related to the lack of buffer mentioned above.

Other than these two shortcomings, the Hopper/Joey offering is pretty solid. There have been a few minor problems since I installed about a month ago, but no show stoppers. PQ is as good if not better than DirecTV, even on HD.


Both of your shortcomings here point to you perhaps misusing your remote.

The Hopper should be buffering two tuners all the time (except when recording with one of those tuners or during DVR playback) like the other Dish DVRs.

The Swap button on the remote should take you back and forth between the two tuners currently being buffered. There is only 1 hour buffer, though, not 90 minutes... but the buffer should be active for as long as you have been tuned to that channel (up to an hour of course).

I don't have a Hopper... but it uses an updated version of 922 firmware... so I'd be surprised if they took the effort to take that capability away.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#40 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:16 PM

My point of reference is Hopper/Joey only. I stand by my statement. I switched from DirecTV to Dish in March.


I switched from DirecTV to Dish (HR22-100 to Hopper) on April 21st. I view on a 50" 1080p plasma at 7'. I am well acquainted with the ways in which MPEG2 and MPEG4 save on bandwidth, from reducing color depth to macro-blocking. I would consider myself very discerning when it comes to video quality, so much so that I can tell a poorly mastered Blu-Ray from a well-mastered one. I used an HDMI cable for both the HR22 and the Hopper.

It simply is impossible that Dish, by down converting 1080i to 1440x1080 instead of 1980x1080 can surpass DirecTV in image quality, assuming similar bandwidth. I see evidence of this lack of detail on multiple channels, but Fox Sports Net is by far the most obvious.

On Discovery, I watched all but the last episode on DirecTV. On Dish, even the title sequence gave away slight hints of being less detailed. But there was a scene involving flocks of birds that was very busy on the screen - exactly the type of scene that would show bandwidth issues. The birds turned into a mess of white blocks. On another scene showing sunset at the north pole, the blue sky obviously consisted of large blue blocks. I wouldn't say that DirecTV's picture is perfect, but these problems and flaws were far less obvious, and the overall feeling of the picture was sharper.

On the Tennis Channel, my impression before was of sharpness over the whole screen, even on wide, full-court shots. On Dish, the image appears soft, like looking through a slightly dirty window. Even on closeups, the players appear less clear. On DirecTV, it felt like I was really looking at them. I find it hard to maintain eye focus on Dish's picture on the Tennis Channel, because it is so soft.

On HD Local-into-Local, I can't compare DirecTV's MPEG4 because it is not available in my area. On Dish, the channels are washed out and there is strong macro-blocking visible everywhere. These look like very bandwidth starved channels to me, and I will be buying an OTA tuner for the Hopper the minute they become available. They are barely viewable for me.

I cannot answer for how you might think you're getting better video quality from Dish, or even equal. But I can assure you, the only video that looks better on Dish is SD, and even that is a sad degradation from the early days of satellite television, when SD was the only game in town and the picture was as perfect as the best DVDs.

I love my Hopper, and I do not regret my decision. No one should have to suffer with what my DirecTV DVR put me through. But until Dish gets more transponders or converts everything and everybody to MPEG4, they simply don't have the bandwidth to support the programming they're carrying at a quality level comparable to DirecTV.




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