Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Advice on an intermittent 771 problem


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:08 PM

Maybe I'm off base, but it seemed to work before with a powered switch, you changed over to a non powered switch and the copper clad is "mostly" working, which suggest the voltage drop is borderline. Adding a locker would seem to be what's needed, or you can re-work your whole setup.
A.K.A VOS

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 ONLINE   HarleyD

HarleyD

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,276 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2006

Posted 02 May 2012 - 03:58 AM

Adding the locker is what I was looking at. I just wansn't 100% sure if that was the problem or what piece of hardware to use when I couldn't find what had been recommended in the past.

You have helped me answer both questions. I think I have my plan of action.

Thank you all.
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
--Frank Zappa

#23 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:38 AM

The fact that you can view the channel on the HR20 while it's searching on the R22 makes me question whether a polarity locker will solve the issue. You could get a SWM 8 with PI of a major auction site for less than what a polarity locker would cost you. I suggest going that route, as it allows you to do without the possible bad line, solve many db drop related issues, BBC related issues, and removes any needed current draw over the copper clad. I suggest hooking one line of the HR20 to SWM1, the good line from the R22 to SWM2, the 4x8 to legacy 1&2, and the PI to legacy 3. It would also allow you to use the 2nd line for OTA without the db drop that comes from the diplexers.

Edited by dielray, 02 May 2012 - 08:49 AM.


#24 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:18 AM

The fact that you can view the channel on the HR20 while it's searching on the R22 makes me question whether a polarity locker will solve the issue.

If this is the case, you make a good point.

You could get a SWM 8 with PI of a major auction site for less than what a polarity locker would cost you. I suggest going that route, as it allows you to do without the possible bad line, solve many db drop related issues, BBC related issues, and removes any needed current draw over the copper clad.

If it comes down to $$$ this too is a good/better idea as the SWM8 is powered, so it will do what the locker does and give more options. I'm not quite sure there is a "dB drop" here as much as a voltage drop.

I suggest hooking one line of the HR20 to SWM1, the good line from the R22 to SWM2, the 4x8 to legacy 1&2, and the PI to legacy 3. It would also allow you to use the 2nd line for OTA without the db drop that comes from the diplexers.

The SWM8 diplexer loss is MUCH greater than other diplexers.
When diplexing with SWiM there are only two makers that have models designed to work with SWiM:
http://www.solidsign...sing-(STD-9501)

http://www.solidsign...exer-(SD-SWMD1)

http://www.solidsign...exer-(SD-SWMD2)
A.K.A VOS

#25 ONLINE   HarleyD

HarleyD

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,276 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2006

Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:29 AM

I was under the impression that the legacy outs from SWM8 had to be "home runs" right to receivers. If in fact I can feed a multiswitch with them then that is indeed a viable option.

I can also get a cheap OTA distribution amp and run one output to the 4x8, one to the HR20 and one to the HR22 since I wouldn't require both runs to those DVRs for the satellite.

That would leave the SWM8 out of the diplexing equation altogether. I had wondered about SWM diplexing, specifically with the STD-9501 diplexers. They are supposed to selectively pass the control frequency back to the LNB but I have heard of folks having mixed results.

So if the SWM Legacys can feed the 4x8 I agree, this is a preferable option. As I said, I was under the impression that was not the case.

Of course I've been successful doing a couple of things that "won't work" like cascading multiswitches.
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
--Frank Zappa

#26 ONLINE   HarleyD

HarleyD

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,276 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2006

Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:39 AM

In a moment of epiphany I just realized that for three days I have been referring to a 4x8 multiswitch that is in fact a powered 3x8 multiswitch.

How stupid do I feel? I may be retarded after all.
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
--Frank Zappa

#27 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:40 AM

I was under the impression that the legacy outs from SWM8 had to be "home runs" right to receivers. If in fact I can feed a multiswitch with them then that is indeed a viable option.

I can also get a cheap OTA distribution amp and run one output to the 4x8, one to the HR20 and one to the HR22 since I wouldn't require both runs to those DVRs for the satellite.

That would leave the SWM8 out of the diplexing equation altogether. I had wondered about SWM diplexing, specifically with the STD-9501 diplexers. They are supposed to selectively pass the control frequency back to the LNB but I have heard of folks having mixed results.

So if the SWM Legacys can feed the 4x8 I agree, this is a preferable option. As I said, I was under the impression that was not the case.

Of course I've been successful doing a couple of things that "won't work" like cascading multiswitches.

Cascading anything isn't supported, but doesn't mean it won't work.
The legacy ports are a switch, so if you only need two to feed your Eagle Aspen, then you should be fine.
The STD-9501 is to pass the 2.3 MHz control signal back to the SWiM. Other diplexers [not made for SWiM] may pass it too, but they do through the DC circuit [DC passing] which may attenuate it.
Not all diplexers are the same. First there is the 2.3 MHz issue, but then there is the rejection specs, which is important on the combining side, but not as much on the separating side.
A.K.A VOS

#28 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:41 AM

Yes it will work. It isn't a "supported" setup, but would be more supported than adding a locker to the mix. The primary concern when cascading multiswitches is only relevant when both are un-powered.

#29 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:42 AM

I may be retarded after all.

"Frankly" I stopped asking myself things like that years ago, as I didn't like the answer. :lol:
A.K.A VOS

#30 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:43 AM

Yes it will work. It isn't a "supported" setup, but would be more supported than adding a locker to the mix.

:confused: Lockers are used in supported MDU systems. :confused:
A.K.A VOS

#31 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:54 AM

My thinking is more in line with what a home service tech would be able to support. A home service tech has experience and can get his or her hands on a SWM 8. A normal tech has no experience with a polarity locker, as basic as it may be. Also, I was suggesting not using the SWM to diplex, but rather use the now free 2nd line.

#32 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

My thinking is more in line with what a home service tech would be able to support. A home service tech has experience and can get his or her hands on a SWM 8. A normal tech has no experience with a polarity locker, as basic as it may be. Also, I was suggesting not using the SWM to diplex, but rather use the now free 2nd line.

OK, it's a gray area, so I won't disagree.
What we do on these forums tends to go well beyond a lot of "home techs", and for sure everyone I've had come to my home. :lol:
A.K.A VOS

#33 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

OK, it's a gray area, so I won't disagree.
What we do on these forums tends to go well beyond a lot of "home techs", and for sure everyone I've had come to my home. :lol:


Very true. :lol:

#34 ONLINE   HarleyD

HarleyD

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,276 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2006

Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:41 AM

Well, the 771 error reared its' head again last night for the first time since I swapped the cables again and it followed the cable back to SAT2 so it's definitely tied to the cable.

I found a SWM8 with PI and 8-way "green label" splitter on ebay for under $60 so I believe that is the way I am going to go.

I'll get a CM3414 distribution amp and push OTA directly down the second RG6 lines for the HR20 and the R22, into the OTA in on the 3x8 and just terminate the 4th unused output for now.
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
--Frank Zappa

#35 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:45 AM

Not sure you've posted the distance between the dish and where you'll mount the SWM8, but try to keep it less than 45-50', so the SWM8 has its full range.
A.K.A VOS

#36 ONLINE   HarleyD

HarleyD

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,276 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2006

Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:30 PM

Right now it's about 30' from the dish to the WB68 and that's where I intend to put the SWM8
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
--Frank Zappa

#37 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:00 PM

That works
A.K.A VOS




Protected By... spam firewall...And...