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Dish drops AMC (+WeTV, IFC & Sundance)


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#561 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 10:57 AM

Something to be said for this.

for me, I can only think of one series I follow on a local [ cbs] that is once a week, period. I look to the above stations and some others, for something other than being a continuous amateur hour. [The locals don't have to worry about me skipping commercials] I have yet to view more than 5 minutes of any of these boring reality type programs.


I'm like you I don't watch network programs. It's just junk to me.

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#562 OFFLINE   MCHuf

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:07 AM

Maybe it's me, but when I looked for AMC's schedule for tonight it is nowhere to be found from Dish. I looked at the live schedules on both Dish Online and at dish.com. IFC and WE are missing also.

#563 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:20 AM

I want SiFFy to go back to being SciFi and stop running wrestling, HLN to go back to news instead of gossip and so on.


Me too!

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#564 OFFLINE   steveT

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 12:49 PM

For those who don't think this AMC issue isn't a big deal for Dish internally, I have to disagree. It's been a PR disaster for them, and I bet there are major recriminations going on inside the company. It all stemmed from the unannounced channel move in the middle of Sunday night programming. A google news search turns up well over 50 articles in the last few days, in major news publications around the country, all with titles like "Dish kicks AMC to Siberia". Dish has come across almost universally negative in the coverage, and AMC has come across smelling like a rose. It's the kind of situation that PR departments work their whole careers to avoid.

They were a month away from dropping the channel, and usually these disputes don't hit the major media outlets until the final few days. Instead, Dish now has huge visibility a month in advance, which I'm sure has alerted many more advertisers long before they normally would've noticed, again threatening Dish's bargaining position.

And probably worst of all, all the coverage has highlighted the judge's ruling in the Voom case that Dish intentionally destroyed data relevant to the suit, which is just a major slam on Dish. That's an issue that probably never would've made the mainstream press, only known to those who follow the industry closely, and now it's given Dish a huge black eye in public.

All of this just because someone internally made a petty, last-minute decision to yank the channel right in the middle of "The Killing", because they got PO'd by AMC's warning ad to Dish customers. It strikes me as the kind of decision that was made so last-minute, that I bet no one internally even contacted the PR and Communications folks on a Sunday night. I'd also bet those PR/Comm folks were totally pissed when they came to work Monday morning, being handed a steaming load to deal with in damage control mode.

I would bet Dish is getting more calls internally about this than any other threatened channel droppage they've ever had, and I'm guessing there are huge political battles and finger-pointing going on internally at the company right now. I've been on the business side in the high-tech sector for 25+ years, and I can tell you this is how it plays out.

#565 OFFLINE   DoyleS

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 12:56 PM

I have to say that as a spectator to this battle, it is becoming quite interesting to watch. Lots of gasoline being tossed on the fire. Great Media exposure. This is Reality TV at its best! LOL!!
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#566 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:00 PM

^And as everything else goes be it in the tech world or the business side of tech the black eye will heal and this will all be a distant memory. What will really sting is the millions of dollars in revenue that evaporate from dolan's balance sheets beginning July 1st.

#567 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:02 PM

It's been a PR disaster for them, and I bet there are major recriminations going on inside the company.


I would bet Dish is getting more calls internally about this than any other threatened channel droppage they've ever had, and I'm guessing there are huge political battles and finger-pointing going on internally at the company right now.


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#568 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:16 PM

They were a month away from dropping the channel, and usually these disputes don't hit the major media outlets until the final few days. Instead, Dish now has huge visibility a month in advance, which I'm sure has alerted many more advertisers long before they normally would've noticed, again threatening Dish's bargaining position.


Would not the loss of advertisers hit AMC much more frontally than Dish? I sure see it that way, but if wrong, please elaborate.
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#569 OFFLINE   DoyleS

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:17 PM

From http://dictionary.re...bet/you can bet

You use the term, "I bet" or "I'll bet" in reply to a statement to show that you agree with it or that you expected it to be true, usually when you are annoyed or amused by it.

I think in this case, some of us are clearly amused by this.
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#570 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:26 PM

You use the term, "I bet" or "I'll bet" in reply to a statement to show that you agree with it or that you expected it to be true, usually when you are annoyed or amused by it.

I think in this case, some of us are clearly amused by this.


You=Steve? I presume so, but it's a good practice to quote just enough of a distant post to be sure and save others from having to go search.

"I bet" has so many interpretations that I bet we can't always divine what it means, except in context, and then not always.

I bet the Dodgers will lose the next game. Neither annoying or amusing, just a guess. Unless they're playing the Giants, then it's a hope and a guess. :P
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#571 OFFLINE   steveT

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:37 PM

Would not the loss of advertisers hit AMC much more frontally than Dish? I sure see it that way, but if wrong, please elaborate.


True, but in the end it's going to hurt both companies. AMC will lose advertising dollars for their lower-rated programming without having Dish onboard, but I seriously doubt they'll lose a dime on the higher-rated ones. You have to realize what a huge success "The Walking Dead" is for the 'cable' networks. If I recall correctly, that show is getting something like twice the ratings of the previous highest-rated scripted drama on a non-network channel. Advertisers know the Dish viewers amongst those 7.5M people aren't going to just give up their show because Dish drops it.

Doesn't dish have something like 15% market share in the US? If true, then that's over a million dish viewers. Let's just say even half of them decide they want to still keep watching the show without the hassle of downloads or waiting to buy DVDs. That's a half million customers bailing from Dish. Let's say I'm off on that number by a factor of 10, and only 50K customers leave. Assuming an average monthly fee of $60, that's $36M/year in lost revenue for Dish. That's not chump change.

And at this point, if anything, AMC is getting even more free promotion about their high profile scripted dramas over this dispute, so I'm guessing they're not in too bad of a shape with the advertisers for those 5 or 6 top shows.

#572 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:52 PM

Impossible to tell how many people will go through the hassle and expense of switching to another provider but it is easy math to determine how much revenue AMC loses when Dish stops writing checks. The advertising revenue losses for AMC are also nearly impossible to guesstimate but the fact is they will not go up on this news.

Subs come and go for many reasons every day. It would be simple minded to think Dish has not done their own math on the business side of this equation.

#573 OFFLINE   MCHuf

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:04 PM

Subs come and go for many reasons every day. It would be simple minded to think Dish has not done their own math on the business side of this equation.


I agree that Dish has probably done it's homework. But seeing as how they moved the AMC channels to the 9xxx area in the manner they did, I wonder how rational they are in dealing with AMC?

#574 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:15 PM

Err, AMC is a popular channel. It is in the Top 20, around 15/16 in viewership.


Popularity is relative. Someone would be in the top 20 even if the numbers across the board were horrible! So... that statement alone means nothing.

I've done the math. Even at their highest ratings, less than 10% of the people who pay to have AMC as a channel watched their highest rated program ever. The ratings drop sharply when not on that night... so virtually all of the AMC customers could bail and Dish wouldn't notice but a blip in their subscribers.

I would say the deluge of negative comments on Dish's Facebook page would indicate otherwise, with comments coming in about every 30 seconds since Sunday from angry customers, most of whom are saying that they have called Dish to threaten dropping them if they drop Dish.


Even on a forum like this... we have some 50,000+ members (I haven't checked in a while) and look how few are actually posting here.

Dish has 14 million customers... for those of you watching Facebook, how many of those 14 million customers have posted about AMC? Even if there are a lot of Facebook posts, how many are from unique Dish customers? Heck, I'm willing to bet some of the negative comments are pot-stirrers who aren't even Dish subscribers.

I wouldn't take anything on, or about that place seriously.

I'd say Dish has a greater chance of being around in 10 years than FB.


Off-topic for this thread, but I have to say I agree with you there. Facebook has more serious problems looming than Dish does.

I agree that Dish has probably done it's homework. But seeing as how they moved the AMC channels to the 9xxx area in the manner they did, I wonder how rational they are in dealing with AMC?


As I've said... I get the message Dish is hoping to send to AMC, but they are sending it at the expense of Dish customers. While I think the number of complaints will be low relative to the 14 million Dish subscribers... those customers who do complain are just as valid as anyone else, and Dish is throwing those customers under the bus too.

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#575 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:34 PM

Anybody feel we're going around in circles?

Dish bad. AMC Good.

AMC bad. Dish Good.

Dish bad. AMC Good.

AMC bad. Dish Good.


Repeat as needed.
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#576 OFFLINE   steveT

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:40 PM

It would be simple minded to think Dish has not done their own math on the business side of this equation.


You'd think so, wouldn't you? But the reality is that many, many business decisions are not made based on the math, and are instead made based on emotions and egos of the people in power (people are people, after all...) I've seen it a million times. Maybe I just worked for dysfunctional companies, but people at the top will easily reject the fact-based, mathematical argument if their gut wants them to go a different way. I've seen entire businesses started up or ejected, despite the math being against them. And in this case, this dispute has all the markings of a battle of egos between the two Charlies involved.

(As a side note, if JP Morgan Chase had followed the math, they probably wouldn't have accidentally lost $3B this quarter. Whoops...)

#577 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:56 PM

OhOh Stewart. You used the word Bet.

#578 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:18 PM

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But the reality is that many, many business decisions are not made based on the math, and are instead made based on emotions and egos of the people in power (people are people, after all...) I've seen it a million times.


The thing is... people who are complaining about the possible loss of AMC are arguing from an emotional perspective too!

Most customers argue "I want channel X" or "I better not lose channel Y"... some customers even say "I would pay anything, money is no object, to get channel Z"... and yet, if their bill goes up $5 after getting channel Z, you can bet those same customers will react emotionally again with "why did my bill go up?"

So... yeah, companies react to negotiations emotionally sometimes rather than rationally... but they are dealing with their own customers whom they know will react more emotionally than rationally... so it kind of makes sense for a business to be emotional in these cases.

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#579 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:53 PM

From Entertainment Weekly's Inside TV:

AMC has enlisted Don Draper in its carriage battle against Dish TV. The network will run this full-page ad in the Wall Street Journal tomorrow (below), smacking the satellite service for its threat to remove AMC from its channel lineup.

Dish and AMC Networks (which includes AMC, WE, IFC and Sundance) are in a nasty fight over a distribution contract that expires at the end of June. Dish recently moved the company’s channel locations into the Siberian nether regions of its listings. It seems pretty unlikely Sunday’s Mad Men finale will be impacted by the standoff, but the Breaking Bad fifth season premiere that’s set for July 15 is fair game. Don’t get too worried, though — these types of public distribution clashes tend to result in last-minute resolutions. Here’s the ad:

Posted Image

Thing is, I think this will not "result in last-minute resolution."

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#580 OFFLINE   puckwithahalo

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:54 PM

Not sure how long you have been working for E* but as a former employee and one whos been around for the big drops (FX and what not anyone?) I can promise you its going to get worse.

Have fun with the mandatory 6th day shifts and extended shifts/Mandatory 1 hour ET tacked onto every shift :lol:


I've been here for 7 years, I know how it goes. I was just noting that on day 1 of the move of the channels, I had one call, and I haven't actually had another since then.

Really. So please tell us how many calls Dish took overall yesterday about the AMC issue.


I don't have access to that information. I can only tell you what I've experienced.
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