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Dish drops AMC (+WeTV, IFC & Sundance)


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#51 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:12 AM

Disney is a different animal.

Dish was carrying HD feeds and not paying Disney for them. Disney said "you can't do that" and Dish replied "yes we can"... and Disney got an injunction... so Dish had to drop those channels if they were going to fight in court OR they would have owed Disney back-fees for the time they had been carrying them.

Now... the other ABC/Disney/ESPN channels already had contracts that were not due for renewal... and neither company likes to renew early... so we will next see whenever the rest of the Disney family comes up for renewal.

Odds are that Dish could not easily survive a loss of ALL the Disney channels... and similar odds against Disney renewing that didn't get the other channels + ESPNU and maybe ESPN3D onto Dish as well.

So expect a fight and either Dish to make a major mistake OR eventually we get everything back and prices go up.

The Rainbow family is different... because they don't have the same pull as Disney. Outside of the handful of good programs AMC has (some on hiatus right now anyway), there hasn't been mad demand for those channels.

So I kind of think Dish might have a good strategy here... if Rainbow wants to play hardball in court over the spilt milk of Voom... they risk Dish becoming disinterested in the other Rainbow media channels. And while some of us wouldn't like it... I'm not leaving Dish over these few channels if they go away. I didn't leave over the Disney channels that I actually miss far more!

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#52 OFFLINE   Ira Lacher

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:12 AM

Everyone speaks as though this is a done deal and AMC will be gone for good. It's a negotiating tactic, just like pulling any other channel is. AMC wants Dish viewers for their advertisers, and Dish wants AMC viewers for their monthly fees. I sincerely doubt AMC will be turned off, but if it is, will only last a few weeks.


As another poster, pointed out, the Disney HD channels along with ESPNU and ESPNNews have been off for months, with no indication they will return.

The scenario with DISH vs. AMC seems to be playing out as it has before: DISH announces they will not pay a demanded increase are pulling the channels instead; no agreement is reached before the contract expires; DISH pulls the channels.

And considering the animosity surrounding the court case, you have to believe that if those channels go -- and I believe they will -- they'll be gone for a very, very long time.
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#53 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:28 AM

As another poster, pointed out, the Disney HD channels along with ESPNU and ESPNNews have been off for months, with no indication they will return.

The scenario with DISH vs. AMC seems to be playing out as it has before: DISH announces they will not pay a demanded increase are pulling the channels instead; no agreement is reached before the contract expires; DISH pulls the channels.

And considering the animosity surrounding the court case, you have to believe that if those channels go -- and I believe they will -- they'll be gone for a very, very long time.


+1
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#54 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:47 AM

As another poster, pointed out, the Disney HD channels along with ESPNU and ESPNNews have been off for months, with no indication they will return.

The scenario with DISH vs. AMC seems to be playing out as it has before: DISH announces they will not pay a demanded increase are pulling the channels instead; no agreement is reached before the contract expires; DISH pulls the channels.

The ABC/Disney HD channels are different ... DISH never had a contract to carry the channels and assumed that their SD contract allowed them to carry the HD versions. They were wrong, they lost in court. The SD channels continue so the customers are not completely lost when it comes to providing the content ... and DISH has enough other HD that not having those channels doesn't end the value of their service.

AMC is at the point where HD is part of the SD contract and the carriage contract for the SD is ending. If the AMC channels go away the content is lost in HD and SD. DISH has completely pulled good channels when the contracts ended before - and I agree that the channels are likely to be pulled this time as well. For how long is the question.

It could be one of those bad weekend channel pulls or it could go on for a month. DISH believes that their subscribers are watching AMC less than their subscribers did in the past - so despite the number of subscribers still watching they don't want to pay as much more for the channel as AMC is requesting/demanding. Thus begins the negotiation.

The tie to Voom makes this issue more ominous. There is a lot of bad blood between the companies and DISH has completely pulled "forever" channels that AMC's owners would like to see returned. So there is a good chance that the AMC channels will be gone "forever" as well. Or this might be the pivot point that gets all the other related feeds on DISH Network.

Stay tuned!

#55 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:56 AM

This. +1

Not to mention AMC really only gets all the views on the weekend anyway. There day time and weekday programming is really lacking. Its not like there USA or TBS when it comes to pumping out quality programming back to back on a weekly basis.

...


AMC was the 18th ranked cable channel in 2011 for total daily viewers and 15th for primetime viewers. A top 20 channel is fairly significant.

http://www.scribd.co...eriod-Rank-2011
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#56 OFFLINE   Inkosaurus

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:03 AM

AMC was the 18th ranked cable channel in 2011 for total daily viewers and 15th for primetime viewers. A top 20 channel is fairly significant.

http://www.scribd.co...eriod-Rank-2011


Yeah but as well all know Dish will play Hardball with anyone, even top 5 channels. :lol:

#57 OFFLINE   sacflies

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:03 AM

Wait...no ESPNU HD or ESPN News HD (didn't know that), and now maybe no AMC?! Well, that pretty much throws a wrench in my plans to jump to Dish and the Hopper from D*. Looks like I may be staying with D* and their sloooooooooooooooooow HD DVR's.

#58 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:28 AM

AMC was the 18th ranked cable channel in 2011 for total daily viewers and 15th for primetime viewers. A top 20 channel is fairly significant.

2010 AMC 1,091,000 total viewers +5% over 2009
2011 AMC 1,182,000 total viewers +8% over 2010

Apparently that 8% increase in viewership wasn't reflected in DISH viewers.
(Or perhaps when DirecTV finally added the HD those DISH customers left. :))

#59 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:55 AM

As this proceeds, keep in mind that Dish has not allowed AMC into the Top 120 tier. It is in a similar tier at DirecTV and Comcast. That may account for the "low ratings" statement which means its true by Dish's choice.

Dish had better be careful here as AMC is a scripted programming critics darling and, for me and a lot of cable/satellite subscribers, one of the few sources of quality scripted drama series.

If I lose it, then the bottom tiers of both DirecTV and Comcast will become viable choices. And the advantages of External Hard Drives and Echostar equipment would have to go up against Comcast's On-Demand system and potential bundling savings.

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#60 OFFLINE   Mojo Jojo

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:16 PM

As this proceeds, keep in mind that Dish has not allowed AMC into the Top 120 tier. It is in a similar tier at DirecTV and Comcast. That may account for the "low ratings" statement which means its true by Dish's choice.
.


Similar tiers? Do not buy into those DirecTV ads of AMC not being in a basic Dish base package. Currently, it is available in the $14.99 Welcome Pack, the $44.99 Dish Latino Dos with HD Dos Free, and the $59.99 America's Top 200 with HD 200 Free.

Recently, DirecTV added the Entertainment Package with AMC in it which I believe is $54.99 without the HD feed (which would be another $10). So, that would be $64.99.

#61 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:29 PM

Just to clarify I didn't mean to imply that the reason the Disney channels were pulled is similiar to this. I meant to imply that DISH's attitude will be similiar that once they have dug their heels in it takes an appellate court to pull em out.

(Yes I know that court, at this time, cannot order DISH to carry AMC nor was I implying that one would.)

#62 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:02 PM

Similar tiers? Do not buy into those DirecTV ads of AMC not being in a basic Dish base package. Currently, it is available in the $14.99 Welcome Pack, the $44.99 Dish Latino Dos with HD Dos Free, and the $59.99 America's Top 200 with HD 200 Free.

Recently, DirecTV added the Entertainment Package with AMC in it which I believe is $54.99 without the HD feed (which would be another $10). So, that would be $64.99.

I'm not really making an apples-to-apples case. If Dish drops AMC it won't have it in any tier.

Ominously, AMC (along with IFC, etc.) are no longer listed in the America's Everything Pak web page, much less the Welcome Pak. But....

It used to be that my combination of Dish with AT200, AT&T measured land line, Comcast ISP, and Pioneer long distance was at least 10% cheaper than Comcast bundled. That margin has dropped to 4%. If I have to pay to view important (to me) award winning shows through Amazon or Netflix - "Mad Men," "The Killing", "Breaking Bad", and "Hell on Wheels" - then Comcast becomes cheaper.

Right now DirecTV says on their web site that HD and an HD-DVR is free with their packages. If I have to pay to view important (to me) award winning shows through Amazon or Netflix - "Mad Men," "The Killing", "Breaking Bad", and "Hell on Wheels" - then DirecTV becomes cheaper.

However, it may be cheaper to save the $15/mo by dropping down to the AT120 and streaming those shows through Amazon and/or Netflix.

The problem here is that the VOOM dispute became personal between Charles Ergen and Charles Dolan. That's what happens when Charles is in charge.:D

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#63 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:18 PM

Right now DirecTV says on their web site that HD and an HD-DVR is free with their packages. If I have to pay to view important (to me) award winning shows through Amazon or Netflix - "Mad Men," "The Killing", "Breaking Bad", and "Hell on Wheels" - then DirecTV becomes cheaper.


I wouldn't take a DirecTV DVR if they paid me to use it. I got stuck with a pokey HR22 for my contract period, and rain falls up faster than it would respond. From reading the DirecTV forums, the problem does not exist on every receiver, even the same model number, but I wouldn't take a chance that they won't break the ones that work trying to fix the ones that don't.

I'd rather lose AMC and gain BBC America than have to watch the awful SD DirecTV puts out. SD on DirecTV makes worn out VHS look good. Compare your channel lists carefully before switching, and be sure it's worth it to keep AMC...

And for your reference, I switched from DirecTV to Dish on April 21.

#64 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:03 PM

Again, for me TV is all about access to the content I want. Equipment can be an issue, but without the content, equipment that feeds 3-D life size appearing video and live-sounding audio directly to my brain is useless.

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#65 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:39 PM

There is not a show on TV that I cannot live without. I might be annoyed if one I liked disappeared in a contract dispute, but it would not make me change carriers.

I do not tolerate content providers extorting money from carriers. Period. I would more than likely stop watching a show I liked if it became a pawn in this kind of silliness.

I hate hype and the ratings race. The more a show is hyped, the less likely I am to watch it. I cut AMC out of my viewing many, many years ago when they dropped the 'no commercials' format. Same with FoxMo. I no longer watch it at night when they interrupt films. If they start doing it during the day, I will block them from the channel guide.

That said, I don't watch any of the shows mentioned anyways. None of them make any sense to me.
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#66 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:25 PM

Mediacom here doesn't carry BBCA-HD, not sure about AMC HD. Unfortunately in our area, they haven't gone all digital, so we only have about 25 HD channels total.

And it is sad 'cause they just sent me a sweet offer!


And that's why they sent you a sweet offer.

#67 OFFLINE   klang

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:44 PM

I record, but so far have never watched The Killing. That's it for me on AMC so I don't really care much about this particular fight. As others have mentioned, if I decide at some point to watch The Killing, I can get it legally various ways on the net.

For me, if it weren't for the convenience of an HD DVR, 'cutting the cable' is becoming a viable alternative.

#68 OFFLINE   JW7677

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:27 PM

I really hope this works itself out somehow. I watch Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Killing, and my favorite show is The Walking Dead - all of them are on AMC. I've been with E* for 9 years but if the channel that airs 40% of my favorite shows is taken away I will go elsewhere.

#69 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:54 PM

^^ Well, then you might want to contact AMC and demand they be more reasonable.
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#70 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:57 PM

As this proceeds, keep in mind that Dish has not allowed AMC into the Top 120 tier. It is in a similar tier at DirecTV and Comcast. That may account for the "low ratings" statement which means its true by Dish's choice.

DISH negotiates package placement with the providers. When AMC was placed in what is now DISH's most popular level they knew their channel would not be available to all customers. AT200 is the most popular due to the inclusion of additional channels one cannot get in AT120 or AT120 plus. The popularity of AT200 channels among DISH customers is demonstrated by customer being willing to pay more to receive them (although as a package one cannot say if people are paying more specifically for AMC, BBC America, Speed or any of the other channels - 29 in HD - that make up the step between AT120 Plus and AT200).

A channel that argued "we're not viewed because we're not in the lowest tier" is basically admitting that their programming is not good enough to convince people to upgrade their tier.

It should also be noted that DirecTV did not have a "AT120" similar tier until this past February, and it could be argued that they still don't have one. Their lowest tier based package was Choice which is an "AT200" similar tier. The new "Entertainment" tier removes RSNs and a few sports channels but does not get down to the price level of AT120.

#71 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:52 PM

It should also be noted that DirecTV did not have a "AT120" similar tier until this past February, and it could be argued that they still don't have one. Their lowest tier based package was Choice which is an "AT200" similar tier. The new "Entertainment" tier removes RSNs and a few sports channels but does not get down to the price level of AT120.

That's true. But it does have AMC.

My point wasn't about price, though. If you can't get AMC through Dish, you can't get it through Dish no matter what you're willing to pay.

And like I say, I'll drop to AT120. I have an Amazon App on my Panasonic Blu-ray player to watch the last two episodes of the seasons of "Mad Men" and "The Killing". I'll have to learn how to use it, though.

Thing is, if they do drop AMC then cut a deal two weeks later I won't be paying the $15 ever again. I will have been forced to make a decision I was too lazy to make. In addition to AMC and Dish, the losers of $2 or $3 or $4 a year will be Bravo, BET, and a bunch of other channels I don't watch.

I will say this. AMC has done a good job of offering quality scripted programming. Certainly it is not the volume of HBO which gets $13 a month from me. But on this list...

Posted Image


...they apparently were getting 23¢ a month. If they asked for double that they still wouldn't be getting as much as TBS.

I don't for one moment believe this is about money for Charlie Ergen and Dish. It's about VOOM and Ergen holds a grudge. He can do real harm to AMC. And Rainbow Media has Charles Dolan as Chairman of the Board, so I don't expect any give there.

But I've been wrong before. We'll see.

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#72 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:12 AM

That's true. But it does have AMC.

My point wasn't about price, though. If you can't get AMC through Dish, you can't get it through Dish no matter what you're willing to pay.

I thought your point was what I quoted ... that DISH's placement of AMC in a higher tier reduces the ratings among DISH viewers.

I will say this. AMC has done a good job of offering quality scripted programming. Certainly it is not the volume of HBO which gets $13 a month from me. But on this list...

That list is old and a lot of networks (including AMC) have changed since it was published.

We may be seeing a move of the AMC channels to a la carte ... or at least DISH pushing that as an option. If people want those channels they can pay for them specifically.

#73 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:03 AM

I'm too busy watching the channels I do have,that I haven't any time to worry about channels I may not have.;):D

#74 OFFLINE   StringFellow

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:37 AM

If you want AMC, make sure you contact Dish Network! Follow the link below and voice your opinion. Posts here won't get the attention of Dish. Based on the various news articles, it appears that Dish has already made the decision to drop AMC and “Dish will make alternative high-value channels available to our customers as replacements.” What does this really mean???

Contact Dish: /www.dish.com/chat

“AMC Networks’ very limited popular programming is nonexclusive, and available to our customers through multiple other outlets such as Amazon.com, iTunes and Netflix,”

Now that is funny considering that Hell on Wheels is not on Netflix and NF only has the first 6 episodes of The Walking Dead. And with Dish pushing their Blockbuster@HOME service you would figure Dish wouldn't want to push people to Netflix (even though the content of NF is much larger).

And Dish pays more subscriber fess for the Sundance channel than AMC??? WTF? :mad: Maybe to get one you have to purchase all the entire AMC family of channels.

If Dish does drop AMC, that is a lot of money that AMC will lose (and potential reduction in viewers for their shows) and potential lose of Dish subscribers.... definitely not a win/win situation for Dish or AMC.

Seems like situations like this occur quite often on all the providers when negotiating contract renewals and subscriber fees.

Edited by StringFellow, 06 May 2012 - 08:43 AM.


#75 OFFLINE   domingos35

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:19 AM

i will NOT miss AMC
but i do have it on comcast to




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