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Dish drops AMC (+WeTV, IFC & Sundance)


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#581 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:21 PM

It is unfortunate that the two Charlie's are having this dispute.

I'm pretty sure that AMC took out that ad in the Wall Street Journal because a correlation between the paper's readership and "Mad Men" viewers. And that's the problem. My guess is that Dish's Heartland package sells surprisingly well.

AMC should be beating Dish up with the fact that last July its shows got 29 Emmy nominations, the most for any basic cable network for the fourth year in a row.

Regarding viewers, of 168 hours in an average week, AMC is not going to attract many folks for over 3 hours. USA gets lots of folks watching "NCIS" reruns for hours on end, along with their top-rated non-award-winning programming.

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#582 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:32 PM

That "keepamc" Web site is interesting.

On their own Web site, they mention Dish is dropping four channels... and yet they (AMC) can only come up with 6 programs to put graphics up and list as programs you would miss.

When you (AMC) can only find 6 programs on your 4 channels worth mentioning... doesn't that say something?

Meanwhile, they have a statement that I can't believe is true:

"In fact, AMC’s “The Walking Dead” is the number one scripted drama with DISH subscribers."

I don't see how that is possible. Just off the top of my head I know a show like NCIS gets far more viewers every week... and I daresay NCIS is a scripted drama!

AMC is smoking something if they think that is a valid statement... and mind you, I like the Walking Dead.

Even better... if you keep following the links, there is a link to their "Terms and conditions" page. I'm bored so I took a spin, and imagine my surprise to see this little nugget buried in there:

"We do not represent or endorse the accuracy, reliability, appropriateness or truthfulness of any advice, opinion, statement or other information or images displayed or distributed through our website or site services."

So... for those who think of Dish as the evil empire vs the nice AMC... Consider that by their own Web site policy, they don't stand behind anything they say on their own Web site! So... they have a Web site claiming Dish is playing dirty pool and lying to its customers, whilst simultaneously disavowing themselves of the "reliability" and "truthfulness" of any of the content of that statement. Awesome!

Edited by Stewart Vernon, 07 June 2012 - 07:37 PM.

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#583 OFFLINE   retiredTech

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:50 PM

I do watch AMC, but I don't think any channel deserves a "huge" price increase.

However, I also think HDNET is a poor substitute for AMC.
I see nothing on HDNET that is similar to AMC. No programs that interest me.

TCM or FOXmovies would be a far better replacement.

#584 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 10:14 PM

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Dish sucks and Direct rules, yadda, yadda, yadda, we gotch'a :rolleyes:


My only point is they could do it if they wanted. I am not saying dish sucks. They just don't offer me the solutions I like. I have no problem with them dumping channels, and I think DIRECTV may have to start doing that here and there as well to get channels to start reigning in their asking prices.

#585 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 10:34 PM

I for one think amc is more evil in this mess, and I would not be surprised if they don't make some big changes if not only dish drops them, but say Comcast the next time their deal with them is up. I think DIRECTV just re uped last year, so it will be a while before they have a chance to drop them.

#586 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:18 AM

Popularity and the ratings game are a poor way for a provider to pick channels to carry. Here's two lists of basic cable channels, one is the ratings average top 30 prime time and one is the ratings average top 30 for the whole programming day, Sun - Sat, for one week in March.

Posted Image


One obvious thing is that if you chose to offer only channels in the Top 30 Prime Time List you would not carry the most popular basic cable channel - Nickelodeon. In fact, if you look at the asterisked channels on each list which are those not on the other list, you would be much better off to use the whole day list. But...

What if you could only offer 20 channels? If you go by either ratings list you lose Comedy Central, Bravo, MTV, Hallmark, TVLand, BET.... Drop those channels and you will lose significant blocks of customers.

But ratings do count.

If this dispute were about viewer interest versus price, both sides would work towards a solution because its Dish and AMC. Except it isn't.

AMC is the only one of the Rainbow Media channels on either list, and it's on both. If Dish said ok to AMC at 50¢ but we're not going to carry IFC, WE tv, and Sundance Channel would Rainbow Media's Charles Dolan say yes? The level of loss of support for the other three would likely kill them. But it would be a reasonable offer by Dish IMHO based on ratings.

When one says "it's complicated", that's because it is.

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#587 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:38 AM

Popularity and the ratings game are a poor way for a provider to pick channels to carry. Here's two lists of basic cable channels, one is the ratings average top 30 prime time and one is the ratings average top 30 for the whole programming day, Sun - Sat, for one week in March.



One obvious thing is that if you chose to offer only channels in the Top 30 Prime Time List you would not carry the most popular basic cable channel - Nickelodeon. In fact, if you look at the asterisked channels on each list which are those not on the other list, you would be much better off to use the whole day list. But...

What if you could only offer 20 channels? If you go by either ratings list you lose Comedy Central, Bravo, MTV, Hallmark, TVLand, BET.... Drop those channels and you will lose significant blocks of customers.

But ratings do count.

If this dispute were about viewer interest versus price, both sides would work towards a solution because its Dish and AMC. Except it isn't.

AMC is the only one of the Rainbow Media channels on either list, and it's on both. If Dish said ok to AMC at 50¢ but we're not going to carry IFC, WE tv, and Sundance Channel would Rainbow Media's Charles Dolan say yes? The level of loss of support for the other three would likely kill them. But it would be a reasonable offer by Dish IMHO based on ratings.

When one says "it's complicated", that's because it is.


Very true. Unfortunately, I think what a lot of companies are doing now is trying to add more channels to their nest,and the spread their series out over many channels to try and get more money overall and then they like to only offer the channels in a package deal, rather than say you can pick up amc for this price, we for this price, etc.

Rainbow and others are trying to say, all channels at this price, and if dish says we only want amc at price x, rainbow will probably say no, we will only negotiate for all of them as a package, figuring they will get more money that way. Heck, same thing happen between DIRECTV and FOX last year. Part of their issue was that FOX wanted locals included in the deal, and DIRECTV wasn't going to overpay in their opinion for all the channels in one package.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the same as this situation. The sad part is rainbow probably can't afford any of them with out all of them being picked up, because they spend a lot on so few shows for all those channels. Others I think probably do a better job of having every channel support itself which gives them a little more leverage on to package channels and actually get providers to agree to that.

#588 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:45 AM

AMC is the only one of the Rainbow Media channels on either list, and it's on both. If Dish said ok to AMC at 50¢ but we're not going to carry IFC, WE tv, and Sundance Channel would Rainbow Media's Charles Dolan say yes? The level of loss of support for the other three would likely kill them. But it would be a reasonable offer by Dish IMHO based on ratings.

When one says "it's complicated", that's because it is.


This just became the most interesting thread in the world...

Phrelin and I don't always agree... but when we do... we agree about this! :D

And coincidentally... your suggestion of a way out of this scenario (Dish offering to keep the most popular channel and drop the others) is EXACTLY what happened in the Voom situation... Rainbow had a suite of 15 channels, Dish found that only 5 of them had high interest... so Dish offered to keep those 5 and let the others go... but Rainbow said "all or none"... and Dish said "ok, then... none"... and then the lawsuit.

So... here we are again... an AMC suite of channels where one of them is way more popular than the other 3... Dish might be willing to pay more for AMC if they could drop the other 3... but I suspect you are absolutely correct and AMC would not put that on the table... just like last time.

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#589 OFFLINE   oldengineer

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:03 AM

I haven't seen this mentioned much but I already get the channels that E* is substituting for the AMC channels as part of my AEP/BBMP package.

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#590 OFFLINE   dmspen

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:52 AM

Pretty soon DISH will drop ANY channel that has a price increase and we'll be left with no channels at all. OK, a bit of hyperbole...

So what do I do now?
D* or UVerse or Comcast?

#591 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:06 AM

Needed to speak with Dish customer service this morning about an unrelated issue but asked the csr if they were getting a lot of calls about AMC and the response was a resounding "yes."

I can live without it but agree that a resolution of some sort would save quite a few headaches for many viewers even though that is a minority group.

FYI the csr was great and took care of my unrelated issue to my complete satisfaction. I continue to be a satisfied customer AMC or not and if I decide a have to watch their shows will wait to view them via my netflix account or my amazon account or my itunes account or ......

#592 OFFLINE   bnewt

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:07 AM

I do watch AMC, but I don't think any channel deserves a "huge" price increase.

However, I also think HDNET is a poor substitute for AMC.
I see nothing on HDNET that is similar to AMC. No programs that interest me.

TCM or FOXmovies would be a far better replacement.


I agree about HDNET. I already receive TCM & FOXmovies. FOXMovies is not a fair subsitute either, it isn't HD.

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#593 OFFLINE   Mojo Jojo

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:22 AM

I agree about HDNET. I already receive TCM & FOXmovies. FOXMovies is not a fair subsitute either, it isn't HD.


HDNet is in AT120 which means that AT200 customers already get this channel (unless they are SD only subs). Style is also an AT200 channel. Why not provide the HD feed of Style when adding the HD feed of HDNet later? We TV is an AT200 channel. The high-quality replacements make me furious as they are a slap in the face especially to AT 200 (Dish's most popular package according to them) subs.

Welcome Pack subs and Dish Latino Plus subs would be the ones to really benefit from these replacements. Dish Latino Dos subs would get Style SD as a new channel. Again, SD only subs that had AMC at 130 would gain HDNet SD (soon to be AXS which Dish planned to carry in SD and HD anyway).

#594 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:27 AM

This just became the most interesting thread in the world...

Phrelin and I don't always agree... but when we do... we agree about this! :D

And coincidentally... your suggestion of a way out of this scenario (Dish offering to keep the most popular channel and drop the others) is EXACTLY what happened in the Voom situation... Rainbow had a suite of 15 channels, Dish found that only 5 of them had high interest... so Dish offered to keep those 5 and let the others go... but Rainbow said "all or none"... and Dish said "ok, then... none"... and then the lawsuit.

So... here we are again... an AMC suite of channels where one of them is way more popular than the other 3... Dish might be willing to pay more for AMC if they could drop the other 3... but I suspect you are absolutely correct and AMC would not put that on the table... just like last time.

I don't know whether you will agree with this, but I started a thread HBO - Still the trailblazer in the 21st Century because I believe that the economic model they are developing offers a meaningful alternative for the 21st Century to get us out of these disputes where the burden is carried by the middleman - cable and satellite TV providers.

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#595 OFFLINE   gor88

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:30 AM

Given how content providers seem to ask for increases above the rate of inflation and to carry low rating channels in order to carry the higher rated ones, I think Dish, DirecTV, Uverse, Verizon FIOS, Comcrap, Time Warner, et. al. will have to start playing hardball and just simply say we're not going to carry your channels anymore if you can't keep the renewal terms reasonable.

We're seeing that more recently with AT&T Uverse refusing to bring back Hallmark and HMC after two years of being absent and from DirecTV in dropping G4.

I believe we're going to see more of this "hardball" among cable, satellite and phone companies, especially against some of the smaller content provider groups like crown media and the group controlling AMC.

Even with the big content providers, if enough of the cable/satellite/phone providers decide not to renew the agreements for one of them, it could cause that provider significant economic heartburn...

#596 ONLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:45 AM

Since I was considering switching in August to Dish so I can save a few bucks and get BBCA in HD, this thread has been one I've been watching closely.

I was certain that I would be making the change, but now with the AMC issue, the choice is stay with D* and have AMC, but have BBCA in SD. Or change to Dish and get BBCA in HD but lose AMC altogether. Not the choice I was hoping for.

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#597 OFFLINE   Jon J

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:23 PM

Since I was considering switching in August to Dish so I can save a few bucks and get BBCA in HD, this thread has been one I've been watching closely.

I was certain that I would be making the change, but now with the AMC issue, the choice is stay with D* and have AMC, but have BBCA in SD. Or change to Dish and get BBCA in HD but lose AMC altogether. Not the choice I was hoping for.

I'm in exactly the same situation. Knowing your current thought process would be very helpful. ;)
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#598 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:46 PM

The top shows on AMC you can get in HD via other means; not sure about BBC stuff, or how immediately you wish to view programming from either source, but that could help decide, no?
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#599 OFFLINE   mike1977

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:52 PM

The top shows on AMC you can get in HD via other means; not sure about BBC stuff, or how immediately you wish to view programming from either source, but that could help decide, no?


True...and Directv is one of those other means. :D

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Edited by mike1977, 08 June 2012 - 01:25 PM.


#600 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:52 PM

AMC is the only one of the Rainbow Media channels on either list, and it's on both. If Dish said ok to AMC at 50¢ but we're not going to carry IFC, WE tv, and Sundance Channel would Rainbow Media's Charles Dolan say yes? The level of loss of support for the other three would likely kill them. But it would be a reasonable offer by Dish IMHO based on ratings.

When one says "it's complicated", that's because it is.


That scenario is very likely exactly what happened. Dish offered to pay more for AMC, in exchange not carry the channels no one watches or reduce those costs. It's one of the very reasons Dish does not carry MSG, (Fuse - ironically formally a Rainbow channel!)and as mentioned Voom.




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