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Dish drops AMC (+WeTV, IFC & Sundance)


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#826 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:40 AM

Absolutely! Netflix's problems were started by the rate change more than any other factor by a huge margin.

As to the 5 shows that AMC produces, it is not sure at all that the Killing will be around much anymore. I read somewhere yesterday that this season is down 20% from previous seasons. While I like it very much, I can understand that. How long can you have a show about a single crime?

The others are all niche shows. I love Walking Dead and Hell on Wheels, and like Breaking Bad, never did like Mad Men. And I'm 68, well out of the niche demo that Walking Dead seems to cater to.


Did you catch Rubicon? IMO, it was AMC's best show & I love them all. It was "too smart" for the general population who loves weekly "who done it" criminal shows.
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#827 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:54 AM

Did you catch Rubicon? IMO, it was AMC's best show & I love them all. It was "too smart" for the general population who loves weekly "who done it" criminal shows.


No I didn't catch that one. Now I'll have to buy at least one episode to see if it is something I'll like. Thanks for the recommendation.

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#828 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:05 AM

No I didn't catch that one. Now I'll have to buy at least one episode to see if it is something I'll like. Thanks for the recommendation.


Give it a couple episodes ... it's kinda deep. It's one of those watch-all-in-a-row type shows.
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#829 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:28 AM

Give it a couple episodes ... it's kinda deep. It's one of those watch-all-in-a-row type shows.


Looks like I'll have to dig around to even find it. iTunes has one episode, Amazon has none. And those are the two I usually go to.

edit: oops, looks like no DVD and no streaming anywhere legal.

http://www.amctv.com.../where-to-watch

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#830 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:33 AM

Looks like I'll have to dig around to even find it. iTunes has one episode, Amazon has none. And those are the two I usually go to.


It wasn't popular enough I guess. Here's the crappy DVD for $18... http://www.amazon.co...eywords=rubicon


EDIT: Oops... NOT the tv show.
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#831 OFFLINE   hdaddikt

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:41 AM

Absolutely! Netflix's problems were started by the rate change more than any other factor by a huge margin.

As to the 5 shows that AMC produces, it is not sure at all that the Killing will be around much anymore. I read somewhere yesterday that this season is down 20% from previous seasons. While I like it very much, I can understand that. How long can you have a show about a single crime?

The others are all niche shows. I love Walking Dead and Hell on Wheels, and like Breaking Bad, never did like Mad Men. And I'm 68, well out of the niche demo that Walking Dead seems to cater to.


I'm 68, like the Mad Men but not to the degree of BB. HOW is great too. Pardon the acronyms. As to the Walking Dead, still one of my favorites. I may be out the demographics for TWD, or maybe just out of my mind! Have always been a horror movie addict.
I tend to agree on the Killing.. it is about a homicide being solved v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. Just enough suspense to keep me going. One season would had been enough. After all the rain (yeah, I know it rains a lot in Seattle but come on) and dark scenes I thought I might have to call my doc for an antidepressant. Would have been a good flick for a B&W comeback.

I was sorry to see Rubicon cut short. Not a great series, but enough to keep my interest. Seems to be a big deal when cable shows are dropped, on the big 3 networks, it's business as usual.

#832 OFFLINE   steveT

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:22 AM

Since I had not ever watched Breaking Bad I thought that since they are showing the first 2 years over the next week or so I'd go ahead and record all 40 some shows anticipating that my wife and I would most likely enjoy it. We watched episode 1 tonight and I must say we were very impressed and greatly looking forward to watching the rest of them. They are doing this repeat thing again so you all might want to record a few or all and see what you think.


You're in for a treat. I have never once heard someone pick up Breaking Bad, and not say it's amazing. Just wait until you get to the middle of the second season, around episodes 12-14. It'll blow you away. I've never watched any series that literally made my jaw drop as many times as this one. It can get fairly graphic and intense though, if that kind of stuff bothers you...

#833 OFFLINE   steveT

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:26 AM

I'm unclear what the Dolans' role is since the split. Since AMC Networks was split from Rainbow/Cablevision... I'm not sure if Charles Dolan is officially in charge of AMC Networks like he was Rainbow Media.

I'm trying to find some clarification, but it is all kind of murky.



Going by the source of your numbers... NCIS last season averaged 19.4 million across total viewership (all ages) vs Walking Dead 6.9 million across all ages.

So... if you cherry pick one demographic, they are close... but you are choosing to ignore nearly 15 million other viewers of NCIS when you declare Walking Dead = NCIS in ratings by only counting your "key" demographic.

When the number of people you choose not to count (15 million outside that "key" demographic) are nearly 3 times the amount you choose to count in your key demographic... something says you aren't looking at the numbers correctly.


Stewart, you're not recognizing how the ad environment has changed. TV advertising dollars are now almost exclusively set by the 18-49 demographic. Spent a bit of time on tvbythenumbers.com, and you'll see why. Once you're 50 and over, you don't count to advertisers anymore. Even though that demographic is the wealthiest in the country, they don't spend and impulse buy, like the younger ages do.

And by the way, ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox would KILL these days to get 9M viewers on any new show. The days of 20M viewers (even total) have passed. American Idol didn't even get 20M this season. 9M is a raging hit for the major networks today, guaranteeing renewal.

#834 OFFLINE   Jaspear

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

Going by the source of your numbers... NCIS last season averaged 19.4 million across total viewership (all ages) vs Walking Dead 6.9 million across all ages.

So... if you cherry pick one demographic, they are close... but you are choosing to ignore nearly 15 million other viewers of NCIS when you declare Walking Dead = NCIS in ratings by only counting your "key" demographic.

When the number of people you choose not to count (15 million outside that "key" demographic) are nearly 3 times the amount you choose to count in your key demographic... something says you aren't looking at the numbers correctly.


Aren't those 15 million people the same ones the advertising agencies choose to ignore when deciding which shows to buy ad time on?
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#835 OFFLINE   ehilbert1

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:13 AM

Stewart, you're not recognizing how the ad environment has changed. TV advertising dollars are now almost exclusively set by the 18-49 demographic. Spent a bit of time on tvbythenumbers.com, and you'll see why. Once you're 50 and over, you don't count to advertisers anymore. Even though that demographic is the wealthiest in the country, they don't spend and impulse buy, like the younger ages do.

And by the way, ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox would KILL these days to get 9M viewers on any new show. The days of 20M viewers (even total) have passed. American Idol didn't even get 20M this season. 9M is a raging hit for the major networks today, guaranteeing renewal.



You are so right about that. NBC canceled their 2nd most poular show Harrys Law because it did not meet the 18 to 49 numbers. They had around 9 million viewers too. Their 2nd most popular show!!!

http://www.huffingto..._n_1510785.html

Why are you guys even comapring broadcast TV to cable? I know a lot of people that that cut the cord and watch broadcast because its free. So please tell me what cable show gets over 9 to 10 million viewers regularly? I would say none or not many. AMC is just now getting its crap together and they put on damn good shows.

#836 OFFLINE   DoyleS

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:13 AM

Since I had not ever watched Breaking Bad I thought that since they are showing the first 2 years over the next week or so I'd go ahead and record all 40 some shows anticipating that my wife and I would most likely enjoy it. We watched episode 1 tonight and I must say we were very impressed and greatly looking forward to watching the rest of them. They are doing this repeat thing again so you all might want to record a few or all and see what you think.



Thanks for the tip. I just set the DVR to catch them. On my iPad Dish Remote, it doesn't tell me the episode numbers so not sure how many of them have been broadcast so far. At this point the first one I can get of BB is the May23,2010 episode. It would help if someone could tell me what episode that is so I know which ones I have to pickup on Netflix or iTunes.

looks like I better move some old programs off onto the EHD to make room for these.
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#837 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:28 PM

Aren't those 15 million people the same ones the advertising agencies choose to ignore when deciding which shows to buy ad time on?


I do not believe that the over 50s are ignored as much as some seem to think. If that is the case why am I seeing so many commercials aimed at seniors?

COPD, that insurance ad with Alex Trebek and so on.
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#838 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:31 PM

I do not believe that the over 50s are ignored as much as some seem to think. If that is the case why am I seeing so many commercials aimed at seniors?

COPD, that insurance ad with Alex Trebek and so on.


Do you see that many of them in prime time? I seldom see any ads these days is why I ask.

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#839 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:37 PM

Stewart, you're not recognizing how the ad environment has changed. TV advertising dollars are now almost exclusively set by the 18-49 demographic. Spent a bit of time on tvbythenumbers.com, and you'll see why. Once you're 50 and over, you don't count to advertisers anymore. Even though that demographic is the wealthiest in the country, they don't spend and impulse buy, like the younger ages do.


But we have a whole other thread in this very forum where people are arguing that they don't watch commercials... so I wonder which it is? AMC gets ratings "where it counts" in the demographic that watches commercials? OR isn't that the same demographic arguing in the other thread that they don't like or watch commercials? :confused:

I do not believe that the over 50s are ignored as much as some seem to think. If that is the case why am I seeing so many commercials aimed at seniors?

COPD, that insurance ad with Alex Trebek and so on.


Glad you asked that... because I too was wondering. I see a LOT of advertising that clearly targets the 50+ crowd... so IF that demographic isn't being counted for commercial ads... then who do they think those commercials are for?

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#840 OFFLINE   John Strk

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:38 PM

Thanks for the tip. I just set the DVR to catch them. On my iPad Dish Remote, it doesn't tell me the episode numbers so not sure how many of them have been broadcast so far. At this point the first one I can get of BB is the May23,2010 episode. It would help if someone could tell me what episode that is so I know which ones I have to pickup on Netflix or iTunes.

looks like I better move some old programs off onto the EHD to make room for these.

I've been catching up with the Breaking Bad marathon for two weeks now and it's currently in the middle of season three.

AMC is restarting the marathon again late Thurs June 28. Beginning with the Pilot episode from Season One to the end of Season Four just in time for the new Season Five episode on Sun July 15.

I'm watching for the first time and I'm totally hooked. Averaging around 3-4 episodes per night to keep up. Great show. My new favorite on AMC. :D

AMC's Breaking Bad TV Schedule

List of Breaking Bad episodes

Edited by John Strk, 21 June 2012 - 01:45 PM.

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#841 OFFLINE   ehilbert1

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:56 PM

I've been catching up with the Breaking Bad marathon for two weeks now and it's currently in the middle of season three.

AMC is restarting the marathon again late Thurs June 28. Beginning with the Pilot episode from Season One to the end of Season Four just in time for the new Season Five episode on Sun July 15.

I'm watching for the first time and I'm totally hooked. Averaging around 3-4 episodes per night to keep up. Great show. My new favorite on AMC. :D

AMC's Breaking Bad TV Schedule

List of Breaking Bad episodes



Everyone I know that starts watching it gets hooked real quick. Same with The Walking Dead.

Edited by ehilbert1, 21 June 2012 - 02:06 PM.


#842 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:31 PM

You guys are cruel, trying to get everybody hooked on these great shows, only to have Dish yank them away next week.

If anyone out there is considering cancelling, THIS is the offer you'll get the day after you cancel. It's nowhere near as good as offers from other providers, but not too shabby either. You could probably get as much just threatening to cancel.

BTW, Dish CSR's have apparently been told to lie about dropping AMC. I spoke to at least 4 different ones who emphatically stated that their supervisors have told them that Dish will NOT drop AMC. Any quotes in the press from Dish spokesmen I presented to the CSRs, they called "falsehoods". So I guess they are saying their own media spokespeople are lying. By contrast, all my queries about AMC to several DIRT members remain unanswered. So I guess they'd rather keep silent than confirm in writing or have to lie about keeping AMC.

#843 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:14 PM

BTW, Dish CSR's have apparently been told to lie about dropping AMC. I spoke to at least 4 different ones who emphatically stated that their supervisors have told them that Dish will NOT drop AMC. Any quotes in the press from Dish spokesmen I presented to the CSRs, they called "falsehoods". So I guess they are saying their own media spokespeople are lying. By contrast, all my queries about AMC to several DIRT members remain unanswered. So I guess they'd rather keep silent than confirm in writing or have to lie about keeping AMC.


Technically Dish probably won't drop AMC. What usually happens is the channel will pull permission from Dish to show their channel once the contract has expired. Then Dish can say hey we offered to keep said channel on the air while we continued to negotiate a new agreement but they wouldn't allow it. Therefore Dish can say they aren't dropping the channel because technically it's AMC that's pulling the rights to broadcast it. So that's how they can get away with saying they aren't dropping AMC without lying - technically ;).


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#844 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:31 PM

ENGADGET ran an article last week regarding the Neilson ratings and how they are being looked at from a different angle now. Or at least they will be in the future. The culprit behind all this, the DVR. They have found that to really get a perspective on what viewers watch they need to see how many shows are watched during the 6 days after the original broadcast. They discovered that some shows are showing a 75% viewer increase during that period. So now consider how many record a entire season and watch it later or like I and a few others here are doing by recording all 4 seasons of Breaking Bad and watching them at their leisure. Right now on my EHD I have 2 seasons of Merlin, 2 seasons of The Practice, 2 seasons of Greys Anatomy, 2 seasons of Glee, 1 season of The Firm, 1 season of Falling Skies, and 1 season of The Walking Dead. Why do I have all these shows recorded and not watched yet. Because I'm retired and my wife is not. She would kill me if I watched these shows without her. We are true die hard TVaholics. I would venture to say that NOBODY watches more TV than I do. Not sure that's something to brag about but it is what it is.

#845 OFFLINE   DoyleS

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:40 PM

So far my DVR is scheduled to catch HD episodes 30-46 followed by 1-6. The 6th episode was as far as my guide schedule goes so hopefully I can catch a few more episodes before it all goes dark on July 1, but that may be doubtful as it is only 3 days and they are on the weekend. The good news is that I can get seasons 1,2,3 all on Blockbuster, Not BluRay but at least I can get them easily.
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#846 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:33 PM

OK, my two cents....

Will other channels ask for big increases if they increase AMC's fee? Maybe. But not many of them will be channels that have shows that win Best Drama, Best Actor, etc. When you pull a channel that provides your subscribers shows that are that high a quality, the kind of high profile shows that regularly get multipage coverage in TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly and the TV entertainment shows, that's a lot different that pulling a channel where subscribers will not be missing Jo Jo' Hair Salon reality show. These are VERY high profile, VERY high quality shows.

To compare them to NCIS is not appropriate. There's a reason a lot of people subscribe to Dish (or DirectTV) and one major reason is access to shows like Mad Men, Breaking Bad, True Blood (on HBO) and so on. I don't need Dish to watch NCIS or How I Met You Mother. I can watch a lot of big 4 network shows OTR or free on their websites.

I subscribe and pay over $100 per month to Dish to have access to more than just the most popular shows that the masses watch on their OTR antenna or crappy cable lineup. I pay that kind of money to have the option to watch shows that may not be the kind of crap that appeals to the masses, like Two Broke Girls or the Kardashian train wreck, but high quality stuff and yeah, some niche stuff. When I'm paying over $100 per month and get told by my provider I no longer have access to these Emmy winning shows, and that I should instead pay Amazon or someone another $60 or more to watch them on top of my hefty Dish bill, I feel ripped off. I also feel like Dish is not providing me the service that is the reason I subscribe to them.

BTW - I notice they no longer even have the info channel that tells you where AMC is.

You wanna charge me $127.75 per month instead of $127 and let me keep access to the kind of high quality programs AMC provides? Fine. You want to argue, well if we pay them an extra 20 cents per subscriber (not what they were asking but everything is a negotiation) then next thing, home shopping channel is going to ask for more, or Lifetime, fine, draw the line with them, i.e. draw the line with channels that don't provide differentiated, high quality shows.

#847 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:18 PM

OK, my two cents....

Will other channels ask for big increases if they increase AMC's fee? Maybe. But not many of them will be channels that have shows that win Best Drama, Best Actor, etc. When you pull a channel that provides your subscribers shows that are that high a quality, the kind of high profile shows that regularly get multipage coverage in TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly and the TV entertainment shows, that's a lot different that pulling a channel where subscribers will not be missing Jo Jo' Hair Salon reality show. These are VERY high profile, VERY high quality shows.

To compare them to NCIS is not appropriate. There's a reason a lot of people subscribe to Dish (or DirectTV) and one major reason is access to shows like Mad Men, Breaking Bad, True Blood (on HBO) and so on. I don't need Dish to watch NCIS or How I Met You Mother. I can watch a lot of big 4 network shows OTR or free on their websites.

I subscribe and pay over $100 per month to Dish to have access to more than just the most popular shows that the masses watch on their OTR antenna or crappy cable lineup. I pay that kind of money to have the option to watch shows that may not be the kind of crap that appeals to the masses, like Two Broke Girls or the Kardashian train wreck, but high quality stuff and yeah, some niche stuff. When I'm paying over $100 per month and get told by my provider I no longer have access to these Emmy winning shows, and that I should instead pay Amazon or someone another $60 or more to watch them on top of my hefty Dish bill, I feel ripped off. I also feel like Dish is not providing me the service that is the reason I subscribe to them.

BTW - I notice they no longer even have the info channel that tells you where AMC is.

You wanna charge me $127.75 per month instead of $127 and let me keep access to the kind of high quality programs AMC provides? Fine. You want to argue, well if we pay them an extra 20 cents per subscriber (not what they were asking but everything is a negotiation) then next thing, home shopping channel is going to ask for more, or Lifetime, fine, draw the line with them, i.e. draw the line with channels that don't provide differentiated, high quality shows.



Home Shopping Networks pay DISH to be on satellite.

Another observation these channels in question from 3AM to 6AM run paid programming commercials,plus commercials inbetween programs except IFC&Sundance.I find that fact interesting also.

Edited by Jhon69, 21 June 2012 - 09:33 PM.


#848 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:33 PM

Home Shopping Networks pay DISH to be on satellite.

Another observation these channels in question from 3AM to 6AM run paid programming commercials,plus commercials inbetween programs except IFC.I find that fact interesting also.


Ok, but you get my point. Pick any other Minor" channels.

#849 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:37 PM

Ok, but you get my point. Pick any other Minor" channels.



I understand and do hope DISH can negotiate a price everyone can live with,so no one loses their shows that they like.

#850 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:10 PM

Another observation these channels in question from 3AM to 6AM run paid programming commercials,plus commercials inbetween programs except IFC&Sundance.I find that fact interesting also.


That's a great point. Wonder why AMC runs those paid advertising infomercials at 3am instead of repeats of their "award winning" programming?

I mean... if people love their programming, wouldn't they love more opportunities to catch up on it late night instead of an infomercial?

Doesn't seem like AMC really cares about its viewers either really.

Maybe AMC can charge more for those infomercials instead of asking Dish for a rate increase?

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