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Dish drops AMC (+WeTV, IFC & Sundance)


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#841 OFFLINE   ehilbert1

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:56 PM

I've been catching up with the Breaking Bad marathon for two weeks now and it's currently in the middle of season three.

AMC is restarting the marathon again late Thurs June 28. Beginning with the Pilot episode from Season One to the end of Season Four just in time for the new Season Five episode on Sun July 15.

I'm watching for the first time and I'm totally hooked. Averaging around 3-4 episodes per night to keep up. Great show. My new favorite on AMC. :D

AMC's Breaking Bad TV Schedule

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Everyone I know that starts watching it gets hooked real quick. Same with The Walking Dead.

Edited by ehilbert1, 21 June 2012 - 02:06 PM.


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#842 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:31 PM

You guys are cruel, trying to get everybody hooked on these great shows, only to have Dish yank them away next week.

If anyone out there is considering cancelling, THIS is the offer you'll get the day after you cancel. It's nowhere near as good as offers from other providers, but not too shabby either. You could probably get as much just threatening to cancel.

BTW, Dish CSR's have apparently been told to lie about dropping AMC. I spoke to at least 4 different ones who emphatically stated that their supervisors have told them that Dish will NOT drop AMC. Any quotes in the press from Dish spokesmen I presented to the CSRs, they called "falsehoods". So I guess they are saying their own media spokespeople are lying. By contrast, all my queries about AMC to several DIRT members remain unanswered. So I guess they'd rather keep silent than confirm in writing or have to lie about keeping AMC.

#843 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:14 PM

BTW, Dish CSR's have apparently been told to lie about dropping AMC. I spoke to at least 4 different ones who emphatically stated that their supervisors have told them that Dish will NOT drop AMC. Any quotes in the press from Dish spokesmen I presented to the CSRs, they called "falsehoods". So I guess they are saying their own media spokespeople are lying. By contrast, all my queries about AMC to several DIRT members remain unanswered. So I guess they'd rather keep silent than confirm in writing or have to lie about keeping AMC.


Technically Dish probably won't drop AMC. What usually happens is the channel will pull permission from Dish to show their channel once the contract has expired. Then Dish can say hey we offered to keep said channel on the air while we continued to negotiate a new agreement but they wouldn't allow it. Therefore Dish can say they aren't dropping the channel because technically it's AMC that's pulling the rights to broadcast it. So that's how they can get away with saying they aren't dropping AMC without lying - technically ;).


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#844 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:31 PM

ENGADGET ran an article last week regarding the Neilson ratings and how they are being looked at from a different angle now. Or at least they will be in the future. The culprit behind all this, the DVR. They have found that to really get a perspective on what viewers watch they need to see how many shows are watched during the 6 days after the original broadcast. They discovered that some shows are showing a 75% viewer increase during that period. So now consider how many record a entire season and watch it later or like I and a few others here are doing by recording all 4 seasons of Breaking Bad and watching them at their leisure. Right now on my EHD I have 2 seasons of Merlin, 2 seasons of The Practice, 2 seasons of Greys Anatomy, 2 seasons of Glee, 1 season of The Firm, 1 season of Falling Skies, and 1 season of The Walking Dead. Why do I have all these shows recorded and not watched yet. Because I'm retired and my wife is not. She would kill me if I watched these shows without her. We are true die hard TVaholics. I would venture to say that NOBODY watches more TV than I do. Not sure that's something to brag about but it is what it is.

#845 OFFLINE   DoyleS

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:40 PM

So far my DVR is scheduled to catch HD episodes 30-46 followed by 1-6. The 6th episode was as far as my guide schedule goes so hopefully I can catch a few more episodes before it all goes dark on July 1, but that may be doubtful as it is only 3 days and they are on the weekend. The good news is that I can get seasons 1,2,3 all on Blockbuster, Not BluRay but at least I can get them easily.
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#846 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:33 PM

OK, my two cents....

Will other channels ask for big increases if they increase AMC's fee? Maybe. But not many of them will be channels that have shows that win Best Drama, Best Actor, etc. When you pull a channel that provides your subscribers shows that are that high a quality, the kind of high profile shows that regularly get multipage coverage in TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly and the TV entertainment shows, that's a lot different that pulling a channel where subscribers will not be missing Jo Jo' Hair Salon reality show. These are VERY high profile, VERY high quality shows.

To compare them to NCIS is not appropriate. There's a reason a lot of people subscribe to Dish (or DirectTV) and one major reason is access to shows like Mad Men, Breaking Bad, True Blood (on HBO) and so on. I don't need Dish to watch NCIS or How I Met You Mother. I can watch a lot of big 4 network shows OTR or free on their websites.

I subscribe and pay over $100 per month to Dish to have access to more than just the most popular shows that the masses watch on their OTR antenna or crappy cable lineup. I pay that kind of money to have the option to watch shows that may not be the kind of crap that appeals to the masses, like Two Broke Girls or the Kardashian train wreck, but high quality stuff and yeah, some niche stuff. When I'm paying over $100 per month and get told by my provider I no longer have access to these Emmy winning shows, and that I should instead pay Amazon or someone another $60 or more to watch them on top of my hefty Dish bill, I feel ripped off. I also feel like Dish is not providing me the service that is the reason I subscribe to them.

BTW - I notice they no longer even have the info channel that tells you where AMC is.

You wanna charge me $127.75 per month instead of $127 and let me keep access to the kind of high quality programs AMC provides? Fine. You want to argue, well if we pay them an extra 20 cents per subscriber (not what they were asking but everything is a negotiation) then next thing, home shopping channel is going to ask for more, or Lifetime, fine, draw the line with them, i.e. draw the line with channels that don't provide differentiated, high quality shows.

#847 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:18 PM

OK, my two cents....

Will other channels ask for big increases if they increase AMC's fee? Maybe. But not many of them will be channels that have shows that win Best Drama, Best Actor, etc. When you pull a channel that provides your subscribers shows that are that high a quality, the kind of high profile shows that regularly get multipage coverage in TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly and the TV entertainment shows, that's a lot different that pulling a channel where subscribers will not be missing Jo Jo' Hair Salon reality show. These are VERY high profile, VERY high quality shows.

To compare them to NCIS is not appropriate. There's a reason a lot of people subscribe to Dish (or DirectTV) and one major reason is access to shows like Mad Men, Breaking Bad, True Blood (on HBO) and so on. I don't need Dish to watch NCIS or How I Met You Mother. I can watch a lot of big 4 network shows OTR or free on their websites.

I subscribe and pay over $100 per month to Dish to have access to more than just the most popular shows that the masses watch on their OTR antenna or crappy cable lineup. I pay that kind of money to have the option to watch shows that may not be the kind of crap that appeals to the masses, like Two Broke Girls or the Kardashian train wreck, but high quality stuff and yeah, some niche stuff. When I'm paying over $100 per month and get told by my provider I no longer have access to these Emmy winning shows, and that I should instead pay Amazon or someone another $60 or more to watch them on top of my hefty Dish bill, I feel ripped off. I also feel like Dish is not providing me the service that is the reason I subscribe to them.

BTW - I notice they no longer even have the info channel that tells you where AMC is.

You wanna charge me $127.75 per month instead of $127 and let me keep access to the kind of high quality programs AMC provides? Fine. You want to argue, well if we pay them an extra 20 cents per subscriber (not what they were asking but everything is a negotiation) then next thing, home shopping channel is going to ask for more, or Lifetime, fine, draw the line with them, i.e. draw the line with channels that don't provide differentiated, high quality shows.



Home Shopping Networks pay DISH to be on satellite.

Another observation these channels in question from 3AM to 6AM run paid programming commercials,plus commercials inbetween programs except IFC&Sundance.I find that fact interesting also.

Edited by Jhon69, 21 June 2012 - 09:33 PM.


#848 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:33 PM

Home Shopping Networks pay DISH to be on satellite.

Another observation these channels in question from 3AM to 6AM run paid programming commercials,plus commercials inbetween programs except IFC.I find that fact interesting also.


Ok, but you get my point. Pick any other Minor" channels.

#849 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:37 PM

Ok, but you get my point. Pick any other Minor" channels.



I understand and do hope DISH can negotiate a price everyone can live with,so no one loses their shows that they like.

#850 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:10 PM

Another observation these channels in question from 3AM to 6AM run paid programming commercials,plus commercials inbetween programs except IFC&Sundance.I find that fact interesting also.


That's a great point. Wonder why AMC runs those paid advertising infomercials at 3am instead of repeats of their "award winning" programming?

I mean... if people love their programming, wouldn't they love more opportunities to catch up on it late night instead of an infomercial?

Doesn't seem like AMC really cares about its viewers either really.

Maybe AMC can charge more for those infomercials instead of asking Dish for a rate increase?

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#851 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:18 PM

You want to argue, well if we pay them an extra 20 cents per subscriber (not what they were asking but everything is a negotiation) then next thing, home shopping channel is going to ask for more, or Lifetime, fine, draw the line with them, i.e. draw the line with channels that don't provide differentiated, high quality shows.


But you're playing the "I want my channel, screw you and your channel" game that most people play.

You like AMC and want them to stay... and would be happy if Dish cuts Lifetime... but back when Dish did drop Lifetime a few years ago people then were complaining about that and back then probably AMC would have been a channel they would have said to cut instead.

Which is why these mini-battles are important. Dish fights all of them... otherwise they couldn't fight any of them. Today it is AMC, yesterday it was FOX, a few years ago it was Lifetime. Who will be next?

Disney is still in limbo too... Dish plays hardball with everyone, but especially so when the ratings and average viewership are below other channels that didn't ask for a rate increase.

You say cut Lifetime if they ask for money... but people watch Lifetime too.

That's why I think people like me are giving the only unbiased/consistent positions. I like Walking Dead, and I will miss it IF Dish hasn't resolved this by October... so I do have skin in this game, unlike Lifetime which I had no skin in... but I take the same position with AMC that I did with Lifetime. I'm glad Dish is trying to keep the costs down.

I know Dish isn't my buddy and doesn't "pass the savings" to me... but I also know every time a channel goes up, that directly translates to the next price increase from Dish.

And given how AMC seems to be running things and treating its own people and handling its own popular shows... I can't in good faith take their side even if I will miss some of their programming if the channel goes and stays dark.

But you know... I'll find other things to watch if AMC goes away... and I'll be buying the Blu-rays of Walking Dead anyway so eventually I won't miss things.

Oh... and speaking of how AMC loves its fans... I'm personally still a bit unhappy that they released season 1 of the Walking Dead twice... the second time with a bunch of extra features (including a black & white version of the pilot) that they already had but chose to hold back from the initial Blu-ray release.

So, AMC will take the chance to squeeze its customers when they can... I have to believe they are trying to squeeze Dish right now too.

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#852 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:11 PM

Fine. You want to argue, well if we pay them an extra 20 cents per subscriber (not what they were asking but everything is a negotiation) then next thing, home shopping channel is going to ask for more, or Lifetime, fine, draw the line with them, i.e. draw the line with channels that don't provide differentiated, high quality shows.

It is your opinion that the (current) 65 hours per year of good programming that AMC distributes is "differentiated, high quality shows". Perhaps it is good enough that DISH should pay 25c per month ... even in months when that quality of programming is nowhere to be found. AMC is asking for more ... much more.

You say everything is a negotiation ... only the negotiators know if AMC has lowered their expectations of an increase to only 20 cents more. Perhaps if they did DISH would not have a problem agreeing to the increase. But the 20 cents more you suggest is still an 80% increase. How about 10 cents more (a 40% increase)? It seems like a lot more to pay for 65 hours a year in programming. Especially when AMC has worked to REDUCE the value of those 65 hours by not fully funding those shows.

Most of the time AMC is worth no where near the 25 cents they are getting now. If it were not for those 65 hours a year the would be dropped - and even you would not care (since the "differentiated, high quality shows" would not be there to lose). If AMC gets an 80% to 200% increase they will need to guarantee that they will maintain or improve their programming - which is a difficult promise due to Rainbow/AMC's history of not keeping such promises.

The channel provider has overvalued their channel. They need to come back to earth.

#853 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:31 AM

That's a great point. Wonder why AMC runs those paid advertising infomercials at 3am instead of repeats of their "award winning" programming?

I mean... if people love their programming, wouldn't they love more opportunities to catch up on it late night instead of an infomercial?

Doesn't seem like AMC really cares about its viewers either really.

Maybe AMC can charge more for those infomercials instead of asking Dish for a rate increase?


My understanding is that infomercials pay very low and get on the air only because the airtime can't get regular advertisers.

If AMC's shows were (Are) so good, then reruns overnight would attract an audience and advertisers.

Infomercials from midnight to 8AM may become more common on more channels as DVR penetration increases.

If AMC's shows were so good I wouldn't have stopped watching them.

One reason I stopped watching HBO and Showtime was the increase of scripted shows and lack of movies as a result.

Instead of scripted junk HBO used to have specials that were interesting. They showed Burlesque shows for example, And before MTV they had the Video Jukebox that showed music videos. HBO used to do some innovation, Now they are a Me too channel.

Edited by TBoneit, 22 June 2012 - 08:53 AM.

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#854 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:57 AM

Yeah, see I don't get the whole bit about 'movie' channels going to scripted series. And I never understood the overnight scam-o-mercial bit on any channel. There are a lot of people who work non-daytime schedules and are up most of the night for one reason or another.

Either way, we're down to just a few days before the internet explodes (according to some), so we'll see how it goes.
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#855 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 10:39 AM

My understanding is that infomercials pay very low and get on the air only because the airtime can't get regular advertisers.

If AMC's shows were (Are) so good, then reruns overnight would attract an audience and advertisers.

Infomercials from midnight to 8AM may become more common on more channels as DVR penetration increases.

If AMC's shows were so good I wouldn't have stopped watching them.

One reason I stopped watching HBO and Showtime was the increase of scripted shows and lack of movies as a result.

Instead of scripted junk HBO used to have specials that were interesting. They showed Burlesque shows for example, And before MTV they had the Video Jukebox that showed music videos. HBO used to do some innovation, Now they are a Me too channel.


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#856 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 11:51 AM

Perhaps it's "Wrong" but I grow weary of all of the mudslinging on who is evil and who is the white knight in all of this. Like most Dish subscribers I just want to watch TV.

And again, part of why I subscribe and pay a big 100+ dollar bill is to be able to have a lot of options, including the option to watch very high quality shows that don't draw as much or have as much appeal as "Two and a half men" or "The Bachelor." I don't care if they are niche' or not, and in fact, the reason I subscribe to Dish is to have access to high quality shows that may be very "niche'." Again, most of the drivel like The Bachelor or Two and a Half Men and America's Got Talent, that DO get huge ratings, I can watch OTR or on the network web sites. I pay a ton for Dish to be able to view shows like Mad Men or Breaking Bad etc. that are very high quality yet outside the "mainstream" in terms of big ratings.

#857 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:01 PM

Perhaps it's "Wrong" but I grow weary of all of the mudslinging on who is evil and who is the white knight in all of this. Like most Dish subscribers I just want to watch TV.

And again, part of why I subscribe and pay a big 100+ dollar bill is to be able to have a lot of options, including the option to watch very high quality shows that don't draw as much or have as much appeal as "Two and a half men" or "The Bachelor." I don't care if they are niche' or not, and in fact, the reason I subscribe to Dish is to have access to high quality shows that may be very "niche'." Again, most of the drivel like The Bachelor or Two and a Half Men and America's Got Talent, that DO get huge ratings, I can watch OTR or on the network web sites. I pay a ton for Dish to be able to view shows like Mad Men or Breaking Bad etc. that are very high quality yet outside the "mainstream" in terms of big ratings.

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#858 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:49 PM

Perhaps it's "Wrong" but I grow weary of all of the mudslinging on who is evil and who is the white knight in all of this. Like most Dish subscribers I just want to watch TV.

And again, part of why I subscribe and pay a big 100+ dollar bill is to be able to have a lot of options, including the option to watch very high quality shows that don't draw as much or have as much appeal as "Two and a half men" or "The Bachelor." I don't care if they are niche' or not, and in fact, the reason I subscribe to Dish is to have access to high quality shows that may be very "niche'." Again, most of the drivel like The Bachelor or Two and a Half Men and America's Got Talent, that DO get huge ratings, I can watch OTR or on the network web sites. I pay a ton for Dish to be able to view shows like Mad Men or Breaking Bad etc. that are very high quality yet outside the "mainstream" in terms of big ratings.

I also used to pay money to watch shows like "Mad Men". As of last Monday I'm paying $15 a month less to Dish. While its inconvenient, I can watch "Mad Men" via Amazon albeit for $1.99 an episode. In fact, most "niche" programming is available this way so I don't have to impose extra costs on folks who don't want it.

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#859 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:58 PM

I also used to pay money to watch shows like "Mad Men". As of last Monday I'm paying $15 a month less to Dish. While its inconvenient, I can watch "Mad Men" via Amazon albeit for $1.99 an episode. In fact, most "niche" programming is available this way so I don't have to impose extra costs on folks who don't want it.

That's very nice of you. I wish sports fans would do the same for their niche programming. That would have a much bigger impact than AMC's 25-75 cents. And you can bet that roughly $10 million / month savings will go in Dish's pockets, not yours.

#860 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 02:27 PM

I also used to pay money to watch shows like "Mad Men". As of last Monday I'm paying $15 a month less to Dish. While its inconvenient, I can watch "Mad Men" via Amazon albeit for $1.99 an episode. In fact, most "niche" programming is available this way so I don't have to impose extra costs on folks who don't want it.


If I follow that logic, then everyone who watches shows on Dish that EVERYONE else doesn't watch is "imposing extra costs on folks who don't want them." Dish could be really cheap if all they carried were the networks and a handful of the biggest channels.

Again, my point is that Dish is less effective in serving my needs - yeah, MY needs, which I agree are different than other people's needs (otherwise we'd only have one channel package that everyone subscribed to) - when I can no longer use their service to watch a number of Emmy award winning shows. I'd happily pay an extra $0.30 a month if I had the option.




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