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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Dish drops AMC (+WeTV, IFC & Sundance)


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#1081 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:19 PM

IIRC Dtv and AMC re-upped on there contract last year-ish.
So it will be awhile before they have to negotiate.


You know it's funny, I don't think anyone ever actually said, we just all figure they must have since they added Hi Definition finally, and assumed that mean a new deal too.

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#1082 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:20 PM

Well, crap. I was hoping that at the last minute Dish and AMC would work out a deal, but from everything I've been able to find online, this looks like two bazillionaires who are now in a position to not lose face. I.e. AMC is not gonna be on Dish.

I know this is heresy here, but I'm not worrying a huge amount over who of the two bazillionaires is right and wrong. Yeah, looks like AMC tried to play a big bluff by asking for more money than they should have, Dish called their bluff, it got nasty and there were no real negotiations. I'm sure the Voom thing added to the bad blood to make it a more "personal" fight than it might be with other companies. Dish's Bazillionaire likely thought AMC would come crawling back when Dish said no to their rate increase, and AMC's bazillionaire likely thought Dish would say "OK, you asked for XX, we'll offer YY, let's see where it will end up." Heard on Bloomberg online that Dish just said no, and there was no negotiation.

Did AMC ask for too much? No doubt. Did Dish try to negotiate with them and get to a number they could both live with? Doesn't sound like it, but none of us on here probably know for sure.

For me, the prime time drama's on AMC are among our top dramas that we watch on TV. I understand that the rest of AMC has really lost their origins, which was commercial free old and classic movies, a role that Turner Classic Movies has taken. I understand that I pretty much only watch AMC for the big name series that they show.

However, I pay my $135 a month to watch the TV shows we like to watch. It's a very selfish endeavor, I admit. If, say, Fox asked for some outrageous fee (and we can't get Fox OTA here) and Dish stood their ground and said no, and they dropped Fox, then it might be "the right thing to do" but I would be forced to switch providers nonetheless because we pay Dish purely to watch the TV shows we want to watch. That's the only thing I pay them for.

We watch all of the AMC big name dramas so to rent all of those in HD (I did test an SD rental from Amazon, we're Prime members, and it was not at all the same quality as AMC HD when viewed on our 54" plasma) would cost us a lot.

I had DirectTV from 1995 until 2009. They weren't perfect, but we were happy with them. We would have stayed with them, but when we moved, they did not carry a couple of the local networks in HD, and they did not carry AMC HD. Dish did. So we switched. So we're debating switching back - there are pluses and minuses to both, as all here know. I'm not going to stomp my feet and say Dish is evil, etc. They are a business, and they need to do what a business needs to do, and whether egos are also influencing all of this, I don't know, and frankly, I don't care. And they won't miss my one subscription a bit (unlike DirectTV, they don't seem to care when a subscriber calls to cancel - I haven't done that, but a few friends over the years have switched to DirecTV.)

Again, switching is a PIA, but now that DirectTV does have all of our locals in HD, as well as AMC HD, comparing packages (and I do subscribe to quite a bit, as a $135 a month bill would indicate) I don't really yet see a reason not to: I would get more of the shows I want to watch, which is the reason I subscribe to any provider.

So - this is NOT a "OHHHH Dish is so evil!" post, just the thought process of one subscriber, who has been a satellite subscriber for about 17 years, and purely FWIW.


Nice post!

#1083 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:23 PM

But for how long? When does that contract come up? A few months? Then what?

Maybe AMC will give in and come crawling back to Dish.


Maybe forever. Maybe just a couple of years (they signed a contract not long ago.) But for sure, now. And with the egos involved, who knows if AMC will ever be back on Dish - I think that would require some losing face on one side or the other, and I can't see that happening for now. From all I can read, there were no negotiations, a sign of the ego influence. At least IMO.

We've seen changes in channel lineups over the years, but usually not the dropping of a channel with such high profile programming. At least, I don't recall it such in my 14 years watching DirectTV and now 3 on Dish. If that is what Dish feels they want to do or need to do or whatever, more power to them. I understand there are no guarantees on what channels will be where in a year or two years or whatever.

For us, it's just TV. That's it. We just want to turn it on, and watch the shows we like. Love being able to record them and watch them when we want. Would never go back from HD. But bottom line, we just want to see what's on, read in EW and TV Guide and online about our favorite shows and chat about them with our friends, and tune in and watch the shows we like. No more, no less. So we choose our provider purely from that point of view. We'll pay a bit more to get the shows we want because paying less and not seeing the shows we regularly watch isn't why we pay a provider. It may be for some, but obviously at over a hundred a month, not for us.

And everything I say is just about us; not trying to convince anyone we're "right" or anyone else is "wrong."

#1084 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:34 PM

I love this forum!:)

#1085 OFFLINE   Inkosaurus

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:36 PM

We've seen changes in channel lineups over the years, but usually not the dropping of a channel with such high profile programming. At least, I don't recall it such in my 14 years watching DirectTV and now 3 on Dish.


Shoot I dont know. I recall the FX (and other channels) take down for Dish quite vividly. I worked there as a CSR at that time, bunch of mandatory over time and lots of give aways. I must have given away hundreds of dollars in Itunes vouchers back then.
edit:
And IIRC the FX takedown was at the peak of "Sons of Anarchy" popularity and they were either just about to end the season or begin it ( I cant remember since Ive never seen the show) lol.

#1086 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 09:05 PM

Shoot I dont know. I recall the FX (and other channels) take down for Dish quite vividly. I worked there as a CSR at that time, bunch of mandatory over time and lots of give aways. I must have given away hundreds of dollars in Itunes vouchers back then.
edit:
And IIRC the FX takedown was at the peak of "Sons of Anarchy" popularity and they were either just about to end the season or begin it ( I cant remember since Ive never seen the show) lol.


When did that happen? Not sure I was on Dish at the time, I think I would have recalled it since we used to watch that show.

#1087 OFFLINE   Inkosaurus

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 09:39 PM

If my memory serves correctly, It was back in the fall of 2010-ish lol.

#1088 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 09:56 PM

Dish Vs Fox -- http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=185482

Cablevision Vs Fox -- http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=185368

Direct Vs Fox -- http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=198060

Everybody thinks Direct and AMC signed a year or so back, but if it was a two year contract, there could be only a few months left.
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#1089 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 10:14 PM

IIRC Dtv and AMC re-upped on there contract last year-ish.
So it will be awhile before they have to negotiate.


AT&T had a dispute almost exactly 2 years ago to the one they resolved (apparently) this weekend. So, if it was a year ago for DirecTV, then it could be a year or less until the next round.

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#1090 OFFLINE   Inkosaurus

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 10:17 PM

Good points stewart and saywhat.

Im just used to contracts potentially being 4 or so years long but you guys could definitely be onto something.

#1091 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 10:21 PM

From all I can read, there were no negotiations, a sign of the ego influence. At least IMO.


The key here is "from all I can read"...

I don't think anyone has mentioned it, so it's probably long overdue to point this out.

Dish (and DirecTV and AT&T and whomever) are usually contractually obligated to NOT disclose certain aspects of the negotiation publicly, whereas AMC is not.

Consider... both AT&T and Dish said the same thing publicly, almost verbatim, that "AMC wants more than is warranted due to their lower popularity compared to other similar channels."

AMC says Dish didn't negotiate at all... AMC obviously was able to negotiate with AT&T... but note that neither Dish nor AT&T said the amounts being requested, and AMC hasn't disclosed this info either!

AMC, and other channels, know that if the actual values were made public during negotiations it *might* sway the public against them... thus the hand-tie on the companies like Dish.

IF AMC doesn't think they are asking for much, why not say publicly "You only pay, $xx today and we only want $yy" ? Truth be told, they don't want to risk public backlash with actual numbers.

Dish and AT&T are bound by the contract not to discuss.

This is why every time there is a dispute, Dish, AT&T and others give simple statements whereas the channels like AMC or FOX say thing like "we aren't asking for too much" in response which is similarly generic because they would open the floodgates for Dish to say more IF they let the cat out of the bag.

So... AMC gets to sling a lot of dirt about the public lawsuit and trying to blame that... AMC gets to say "Dish isn't even negotiating"... and AMC gets to run scrolls that say "go to DirecTV"... and Dish kind of has to sit there and take it.

Meanwhile... what happens in cases where the negotiation eventually takes place and the channel comes back? You'll never see AMC apologize or take anything back... that is always a curious thing to me.

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#1092 OFFLINE   cj9788

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 10:23 PM

From AMC's Facebook page......

AMC
3 hours ago
We're pleased to announce that we've reached an agreement with our partner AT&T to continue airing shows like The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad. We want to thank our loyal fans for your support.

As expected, in a distinctly different situation, Dish Network has dropped us because of an unrelated lawsuit that has nothing to do with our programming. This unprecedented decision to use its customers as pawns in a lawsuit makes DISH the only major TV provider without AMC. DISH
customers should call 1-855-2-DROP-DISH or click www. SwitchfromDish. com
for assistance so they can continue watching AMC.


#1093 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 10:24 PM

Good points stewart and saywhat.

Im just used to contracts potentially being 4 or so years long but you guys could definitely be onto something.


Yeah... I remember longer contracts too. Besides the times changing... I think situations like (wait for it...) the Voom lawsuit have made everyone leery of signing long-term agreements anymore.

Companies like Dish don't want to get burned again by a long-contract where the channel fails to deliver on promises... and channels don't want to get locked into lower rates if their expenses go up.

So I think it has been slowly going down to smaller and smaller contracts more similar to what we as customers agree to in fact.

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#1094 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 10:39 PM

Let's analyze a bit, shall we...

From AMC's Facebook page......

AMC
3 hours ago
We're pleased to announce that we've reached an agreement with our partner AT&T to continue airing shows like The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad.


Only mentioning a couple of shows, one of which isn't even on again until October...

Also, no mention of price. With the whole "we aren't asking too much" wouldn't it be nice if they took that to the public and told everyone what they did ask for and what AT&T agreed to?

AT&T can't reveal those numbers by contract, but AMC could. AMC doesn't want you to know what you will now be paying.

We want to thank our loyal fans for your support.

This makes it sound like they "won", and the fans helped them... this puts AT&T in a position of "losing" and means their fans aren't of any value. What's the point of this statement? Is it even necessary?

In a press release, why not just report the facts without editorial?

As expected


As expected? So they weren't really trying with Dish either... I mean, IF they were trying and Dish wasn't, then they would say "we were disappointed" or "unfortunately"... but "as expected" is kind of a thumbing your nose message.

, in a distinctly different situation,


Hey... since it is "distinctly different" why are they bringing it up? I mean, if the Dish dispute and the AT&T dispute are completely different and not connected in any way... what's the point? Why mention Dish and AT&T in the same release?

If you're letting AT&T customers and your "fans" know that U-Verse resolved the dispute... do that... why bring in a "distinctly different" dispute into the discussion? Unless maybe you just like to connect unconnected things... like oh say that unrelated lawsuit?

Dish Network has dropped us because of an unrelated lawsuit that has nothing to do with our programming.


Where to start? Even AMC says it is an "unrelated" lawsuit... so unrelated in fact that AMC keeps bringing it up even when discussing AT&T!

Also... "nothing to do with our programming"?? That "unrelated" lawsuit has everything to do with programming... Voom had agreed to improve programming for a longterm contract, and then didn't improve that programming.

AMC is arguing their programming is so good it deserves more money... Kind of sounds like two sides of the same coin?

Although... notice Dish didn't start talking about the lawsuit in relation to dropping AMC, since it is in fact unrelated. AMC seems to be the only one thinking the "unrelated lawsuit" is somehow related. AMC is the only party relating the two unrelated things.

This unprecedented decision to use its customers as pawns in a lawsuit makes DISH the only major TV provider without AMC.


Well... only because an after-the-last-minute negotiation happened with AT&T. You know, the same AT&T that shared a button on the "keepamc" Web site for the last week?

Meanwhile, "unprecedented"? Really? As if AMC wasn't using customers as pawns too. I mean.. all their "don't miss your favorite program" and "cancel Dish" and "Dish is evil" and so forth... that wasn't trying to use their customers to their ends? Please.

I note too... Walking Dead, one of their good and popular new shows... had a Blu-ray release a month or so after season one... then a few months later they announced a "better with more extras" season one release. So much for using customers as pawns! They took advantage of the show's popularity for an early cash grab, and banked on many of those same customers wanting to pay again.

Customers paid once through their Dish or DirecTV or whatever service... then bought season one... then were asked to re-buy season one again later that same year!

Asked by AMC to buy your favorite show three times in the span of 6 months or so? But the customers were only used as pawns by Dish.

Yeah. AMC puts the customer first and agreed to let the channels continue at the current price while negotiations took place instead of yanking the signals once the contract expired. AMC decided accepting the current money was better than zero money AND didn't want to use the customers as pawns.

Oh wait... that's not what happened is it?

DISH
customers should call 1-855-2-DROP-DISH or click www.SwitchfromDish.com
for assistance so they can continue watching AMC.


This isn't using customers as pawns? Really, AMC? Really?

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#1095 OFFLINE   eric032706

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 10:55 PM

Just an FYI for Breaking Bad fans. If you purchase the pre-season pass in Itunes, it is only $21.99 ($21.99/16= $1.37 per episode vs $2.99 individually) in HD or $13.99 in SD. According to theinteractive.com (click on watch, then itunes),you can even see it the same day, albeit a few hours later. I tried to post the links, but I don't have enough posts yet.

#1096 OFFLINE   crabtrp

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 11:01 PM

Is it for the 16 episodes of parts 1 and 2 of the season or just for the 8 episodes this year? The pricing would seem to indicate just 8 episodes.

#1097 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 11:27 PM

They gave me BB@Home. I just looked through the offerings there and saw nothing I wanted.
I still support Dish and their efforts to keep costs down, but if they're handing out free candy I'll take some.

You won't use the disc portion? I would.

The portion of the hard drive used for BB@Home is reserved regardless of if the customer subscribe to or uses BB@Home. It is also used for other VOD and (on Hoppers) PTA content.

#1098 OFFLINE   eric032706

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 12:30 AM

I am quoting from the itunes description for breaking bad season 5, "This Season Pass includes all current and future episodes of BREAKING BAD, SEASON 5. Current episodes will download immediately and future episodes will download as they become available." If according to all the statements made that this is the final season, and even though 8 episodes will air this year, and 8 next year, it should still be interpreted as one season (not season 5 then 6 ). At least that is my interpretation.

#1099 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 12:45 AM

I am quoting from the itunes description for breaking bad season 5, "This Season Pass includes all current and future episodes of BREAKING BAD, SEASON 5. Current episodes will download immediately and future episodes will download as they become available." If according to all the statements made that this is the final season, and even though 8 episodes will air this year, and 8 next year, it should still be interpreted as one season (not season 5 then 6 ). At least that is my interpretation.


I would be careful about that assumption. I have seen iTunes split things up before, especially when there is a long hiatus.

Doctor Who Series 6, for example, is broken into pt 1 and pt 2 even though all of those episodes aired in the same calendar year.

So... put a calendar year between Breaking Bad, and I wouldn't assume unless they explicitly say it will include all 16 episodes.

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#1100 OFFLINE   MCHuf

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:35 AM

No way is Apple selling HD shows for that low a price. That has to be for the first 8 episodes. $2.75 per episode makes more sense since Amazon is selling them for $2.84 per episode with a season pass. I think the reason the iTunes store is less expensive is because you're committed to buying the whole season, with Amazon you're buying them individually and don't have to buy them all.

I'm planning on buying the sd versions myself. SD quality from Amazon isn't too bad. It's actually better than many networks sd pq.




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