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Dish drops AMC (+WeTV, IFC & Sundance)


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#1451 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:49 PM

Yeah, but you're talking about the bigger picture. I'm talking about the current dispute.

You want my product. I am charging too much. You refuse to buy at the new price... so... I start giving it away for free? How does that help me negotiate with you?

IF AMC has given up on Dish and doesn't want to be back, then fine... but if they still want to be carried by Dish, then giving away their "valuable" content tends to undermine their position of how they "need an increase" to continue providing that programming.

Dish didn't say they couldn't afford to pay AMC, they said AMC was overvaluing the product they offer... AMC is countering by undervaluing and giving away that product. That seems like backwards negotiating tactics to me.


It sounds to me more like AMC is trying to keep Dish subcribers and others interested in their programming because they cannot view it on DISH now,so the only other way for them to see it to keep them interested is stream it for free.

But what AMC is doing is going to effect which programming package I choose to be in.I know I can't get rid of all of them,but I can reduce the amount of channels I support and it is nice to see that DISH is changing their packages to reflect the demands of the programmers like they are doing now.:)

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#1452 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 12:21 AM

My take on this is that the more the fees go up, the less quality is found on what we pay for. Most of the channels run the same recent hour long show as a bloc. There is rarely new programming. Much of the programming are reality shows or clones of reality shows.

One has to think, that since 1947 there are countless hours of TV and cable shows, as well as moviws produced. But, with the exception of me-TV, Retro Telvision Network, etc., there is just so much Law & Order (all variants), CSI (all variants), and other programs which do not pre-date the mid-1980s.

It is hard to believe that Disney, Viacom, AMC, Time-Warner, Comcast/NBC/Universal, et. al. can claim they demand higher and higher fees for new original programming, when original programming amounts to less then 10% of what they air. If I recall AMC/IFC/We, was running 4 hours of original programming per week for part of the year. Certainly not enough to justify a massive increase. And Viacom? It is probably the same or worse.

The networks are wondering why people are going to internet sources. Could it be that 250 - 300 channels have nothing on?

Personally, I spend much of my viewing time with the various movie channels, some broadcast network shows and a once in a while program of interest on the cable channels. But, when networks like History, H2, National Georgraphic, Discovery Networks, all have become poor incantations of FOX Reality Channel; it actually makes going back to PBS, with auctions and beg-a-thons, very appealing. Throw in endless commercials, which further drive people away.

To end, I still think there was more variety on the seven main VHF channels in New York (2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13) in the 1960s, then what I get now with 250+ channels. And back then, all we had to buy was a good TV antenna.



And that will help me make my final decision about satellite alot easier,after what I considered getting burned by the BUD experience in the 80s I promised myself not to return until I thought they had this scrambling crap figured out.I returned in Jan.2002.

Now in 2012 it looks like I may only have another 2 years before I throw in the towel and go back to strictly OTA like I was from the late 80s until 2002.
The one concession will be we now have HDTV and will have more funds to add to our Bluray collection and our family does watch alot of local TV,now even more with the addition of several subchannels I can receive now like MeTV,THiS,Antenna TV and Create will help ease the pain.;):D

#1453 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:11 AM

I also believe another great idea for DISH to do is to list with each channel description, who owns it?.That way the object of our retaliation would be made so much easier if DISH would include that information along with each channel description.:eek2:;):D

#1454 OFFLINE   RVRambler

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 04:45 PM

I don't believe we do know that!
"because we know the Feds would stomp on that hard!",

Unless some lobbyist(s) has paid off enough of our 'public servants' to make it an issue, it will not be an issue, FCC or congress/senate!

Never forget, it is what the $$ tells our elected 'public servants' to do NOT what is smart/fair or best for the citizens, its all about big big big money, congress/senate does not GAD!

Go listen/read Jack Abramoff (recent book or interviews), he was the convicted super lobbyist turned 'honest' and now knows what he did wrong, & how horribly detrimental to our 'so called democracy' his actions & most/all other lobbyist were/are!

The affected congress/senate members are from both parties, nearly all are corrupt & take all sorts of things us 'common' folks would call bribery or very special treatment, so why would they act against all this nice special 'goodies' they get?!

I have to agree to much of what has been said. I firmly believe that both Dish and Direct have fired opening salvos in what hopefully will shorten the war by years and save millions of lives. It remains to be seen if programmers and their parent companies are paying attention.

It is almost as though there had been a meeting and they agreed to take on the big boys and make examples of them! Of course I would not wish to suggest collusion on any one’s part, because we know the Feds would stomp on that hard!


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#1455 OFFLINE   crabtrp

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 04:50 PM

So does a Breaking Bad episode appear on Amazon and iTunes at the same time it gets broadcast on AMC? Or is there a delay?

#1456 OFFLINE   jrseh

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:04 PM

Some numbers I wish we knew, but know we never will.

  • What was Rainbow getting?
  • What was Rainbow asking for?
  • How many calls did Dish receive inquiring about the channel change and subsequent drop?
  • How many people actually left Dish with this as the main reason?
  • How many called Dish threatening to leave in hopes of getting some kind of perk?
  • How many called Dish with the legitimate intent to leave, but changed their minds for some reason?
  • How many will leave Dish at the end of their current contract with this as the primary reason?
  • How many will leave Dish in the next year for other or unspecified reasons?

I've no idea on your first three, but can respond to the rest at least as far as we're concerned.

We've not called Dish, since it's been pretty clear from this forum that dropping AMC was going to happen no matter what we did. We did respond to an AMC online "petition" when this first started, and we will be watching BB online tonight.

Dish did not really reach out to us, as they have with some others, but did send us two free PPV movie passes, which they've done before (we're good customers, you see, having been with them for six years). When I returned that email with a complaint over the AMC issue, they tried to convince me their intentions were in their customers' best interest. My subsequent reply to that did not elicit any further response.

We don't have a contract to fulfill, so could leave at any time and may still do so. Our problem, and I'm sure we're not alone, is that we DVR everything (who needs to watch commercials?) and have tons of stuff on the DVR and EHD that we'd lose access to if we dumped Dish.

As for calling and threatening to quit unless I get some perks, it's not something I'd do unless I meant it. We already have a Roku 2 XS (daughter gave us one for Christmas), so will use that to access the missing AMC shows for now. I'm still disgusted with the whole affair on both sides, but will not turn my life upside down over it. We've got more important fish to fry.

John

#1457 OFFLINE   jrseh

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:11 PM

Just watched the "season premiere" of Breaking Bad, provided free online to Dish Customers from AMC. As usual, it was great television, and I will continue with the show through whatever means are at my disposal. So much better than the usual drivel that now passes for television fare.

I pay up for Showtime, but only watch four shows (Dexter, Weeds, The Big C, and Nurse Jackie) - the movies they also offer are either not worth my time or I've already seen. I follow three shows on AMC (Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, and The Killing - never could get into Mad Men) and consider them just as valuable to me as the Showtime offerings. IMHO Dish is being moronic not carrying this channel - and I believe they will come to regret it.

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#1458 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:28 PM

Didn't work for me, it said try again later.....?
Thank you and
Best of luck

#1459 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 11:27 PM

I pay up for Showtime, but only watch four shows (Dexter, Weeds, The Big C, and Nurse Jackie) - the movies they also offer are either not worth my time or I've already seen. I follow three shows on AMC (Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, and The Killing - never could get into Mad Men) and consider them just as valuable to me as the Showtime offerings. IMHO Dish is being moronic not carrying this channel - and I believe they will come to regret it.


If you would be willing to pay AMC the same per month that you pay Showtime, please write and tell AMC that... Maybe AMC will agree to be a la carte on Dish and then you can pay them as much as they ask.

The problem is that AMC wants to think of themselves like a premium channel, but late at night they run infomercials and want you to still pay them to do that.

I like Walking Dead as much as anything else I watch too... but I'm going to buy the Blu-rays anyway... so if I can't watch on TV, that's fine... I'll buy the Blu-rays and it will all be new to me at that time.

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#1460 OFFLINE   Marlin Guy

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:40 AM

My TV Fairy has "Live Free or Die" ready for me.
I'll probably watch it tonight - commercial free. :grin:
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#1461 OFFLINE   jimb

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:41 PM

If the model ever gets changed to a la cart, i'll be downsizing big time. The danger is that dish and the channels are going to lose a lot of income if that happens. I'm okay with it because I would only pick up a few good channels I want and will pay less per month. No incentive to get the big bundles the way certain channels like AMC keep dropping off.

#1462 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:48 AM

If you would be willing to pay AMC the same per month that you pay Showtime, please write and tell AMC that... Maybe AMC will agree to be a la carte on Dish and then you can pay them as much as they ask.

The problem is that AMC wants to think of themselves like a premium channel, but late at night they run infomercials and want you to still pay them to do that.

I like Walking Dead as much as anything else I watch too... but I'm going to buy the Blu-rays anyway... so if I can't watch on TV, that's fine... I'll buy the Blu-rays and it will all be new to me at that time.



The way I have heard is DISH has offered A La Cart to alot of channel programmers and the answer is "No"! "We want to be in your base package"!
Which would mean a higher increase of price to AT120 which would cause DISH's base packages to not be the cheapest priced packages in America.

So I see the fight continuing and if the channel programmers can't change their way of thinking I can see alot of channels not being on DISH anymore.
It all depends where that channel is rated on the viewer's list and how much increase they want that will determine what increase they are offered and how important they would be considered to be in Dish's guide.

Also if the channel programmer won't negotiate if I were DISH I would also notify the advertisers that are on that channel about how many people are not seeing their ads on DISH anymore.;)

#1463 ONLINE   dough_boy747

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:04 AM

i hope that they do sattle it up, because i do love to watch AMC, thats about it. But to swich to Direct tv or something alse, just for get it i stay with Dish, thats about it for me.

#1464 OFFLINE   DoyleS

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:28 AM

AMC is apparently running Breaking Bad in two 8 episode segments. When I looked on iTunes it indicates you can buy the season in HD for $21.99 while individual episodes are $2.99. It doesn't say whether the Season purchase is only the first 8 episodes for this year or whether it includes both groups. I am guessing it is only the first 8 which makes it about $2.75/HD episode. Half that if it does include all 16.
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#1465 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 03:02 PM

Yeah I doubt the a la carte approach is ever going to be widespread. It is a pain; I'd pay a dollar a month more to keep AMC (and we have gone over the "yeah but then everyone will go up etc. arguments so no need to rehash the same stuff again.) I was looking to reduce my bill some and doing a comparison of the 200 package and the 250 package; there are only 3 of the extra 50 that we would miss, but those we watch enough that we pay an extra $10 per month to keep the 250 package.
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#1466 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:21 PM

In one of the more curious statistics, from The Hollywood Reporter we learn about "Breaking Bad":

The drama pulled in 2.9 million viewers during its inaugural broadcast 10 p.m. ET, growing 14 percent over last summer's debut and making it the most-watched episode to date.

Additionally, Breaking Bad saw a 34 percent season over season gain among adults 18-49, with 1.9 million tuning into the broadcast.

It's possible to interpret this as meaning Dish was right when it talked about low viewership as AMC not being on Dish appeared to have little impact on "Breaking Bad" ratings.

Incidentally, if you don't want to watch the episode streamed free by AMC, it's available at Amazon, SD for $1.99 and HD for $2.99. :rolleyes:

Edited by phrelin, 17 July 2012 - 04:29 PM.

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#1467 OFFLINE   coldsteel

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:46 PM

Per Zap2it, Longmire pulled 4.5 million on A&E.
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#1468 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:41 PM

Per Zap2it, Longmire pulled 4.5 million on A&E.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying anything good or bad about "Breaking Bad" ratings other than Sunday's episode was the most watched episode ever and they got it without Dish viewers. Pulling 2.9 million is neither good nor bad for a cable show.

The week ending July 15 (which includes the Sunday from the prior week) saw cable shows other than sports pulling these ratings:
  • The Closer, Mon-09:00PM 6.1 million Viewers
  • Perception, Mon-10:00PM 5.6 million Viewers
  • Rizzoli & Isles, Tue-09:00PM 5.5 million Viewers
  • Swamp People, Thu-09:00PM 5.2 million Viewers
  • Pawn Stars, Mon-10:30PM 5.1 million Viewers
  • Pawn Stars, Mon-10:00PM 4.8 million Viewers
  • Storage Wars, Tue-10:30PM 4.7 million Viewers
  • True Blood, Sun-09:04PM 4.6 million Viewers
  • Longmire, Sun-10:00PM 4.5 million Viewers
  • Burn Notice, Thu-09:00PM 4.4 million Viewers
  • Storage Wars, Tue-10:00PM 4.3 million Viewers
  • Mountain Men, Thu-10:00PM 4.2 million Viewers
  • Royal Pains, Wed-09:00PM 4.1 million Viewers
  • American Pickers, Mon-09:00PM 4.0 million Viewers
  • Shake It Up, Sun-08:30PM 3.9 million Viewers
  • Jessie, Sun-09:30PM 3.9 million Viewers
  • NCIS, Wed-08:00PM 3.8 million Viewers
  • A.N.T. Farm, Sun-09:00PM 3.7 million Viewers
  • Suits, Thu-10:01PM 3.7 million Viewers
Most episodes of most of the hot shows on AMC never make it into the top 10 prime time cable shows for the week. Once in a while, but not regularly.

The folks at Dish knew that and they could sample their own customers. I think Dish is being honest - AMC draws relatively few viewers from Dish customers. I was one of the few, but I can't argue with the logic.

"Swamp People" on the History Channel with 5.2 million viewers draws almost 80% more viewers than the award winning "Breaking Bad", making "Swamp People" worth much more money to advertisers and the History Channel worth more money than AMC to the cable and satellite companies.

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#1469 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 01:45 AM

"Swamp People" on the History Channel with 5.2 million viewers draws almost 80% more viewers than the award winning "Breaking Bad", making "Swamp People" worth much more money to advertisers and the History Channel worth more money than AMC to the cable and satellite companies.


Perhaps most damning on that list you posted... Breaking Bad improved its ratings over last season BUT still a repeat of NCIS has nearly 1 million more viewers!

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#1470 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 05:18 AM

Playing Devil's advocate, how many more viewers MIGHT it have had if it had been on Dish? Would there have been any mentionable difference?
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#1471 OFFLINE   MCHuf

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:52 AM

Per Zap2it, Longmire pulled 4.5 million on A&E.


One thing I noticed about the list is how many reality shows are in it. I know it's far too late in the game to rant about it, but it still sucks.

My wife and I have been watching Longmire and really do enjoy it. But it is aimed towards a totally different audience compared to the AMC shows. Now my wife is a Hallmark fan and hates those AMC shows that I enjoy. But such is life. There are a couple of things that bother me about Longmire though. How many murders can a county in the middle of nowhere have? And the constant bleeping of naughty words. Come on this show airs at 10:00pm Sunday night. Kids aren't watching it. :rolleyes:

#1472 OFFLINE   DoyleS

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 01:36 PM

The list kind of surprised me also. I have been watching the first three but don't watch any of the others. Not sure Perception will stay on my list, we'll give it a couple more episodes to see. The Closer is in its last season so when it dies and if Perception hasn't improved I am down for only one on the list. No wonder so many of my favorite shows get cancelled.....
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#1473 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

I've been trying to watch "Rizzoli & Isles", but I'm getting seriously annoyed with the side stories. The nosey, whiney Mommy needs to go away, and I have no idea what they're trying to do with the other fractured family. Leave the families out and stick to the cases.

Same reason I stopped watching JAG so many years back.
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#1474 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 02:48 PM

I've been trying to watch "Rizzoli & Isles", but I'm getting seriously annoyed with the side stories. The nosey, whiney Mommy needs to go away, and I have no idea what they're trying to do with the other fractured family. Leave the families out and stick to the cases.

Same reason I stopped watching JAG so many years back.


I've said this before... Rizzoli & Isles is the anti-Law & Order.

Law & Order focused on the cases, be damned the character development.

Rizzoli & Isles is about the characters, be damned the cases.

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#1475 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:38 PM

Come on this show airs at 10:00pm Sunday night. Kids aren't watching it. :rolleyes:

I've never heard anything bleeped on Longmire. It all seems to be in an appropriate context. Each episode has about three mentions of the popular vulgar term for feces and there have been some recent references to something many diabetics do to their fingers when testing blood sugar levels.

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