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Why was simultaneous SD-HD output stopped?


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61 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   jes

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:46 AM

And the question is why? Why spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on additional TVs, IR extenders, and cabling when you can only watch the one program at a time? Can't people watch the same program in the same room anymore? Think of all the electricity that could be saved if these people would just pare down their TV collection...


While that's a fair question, as is: Why do people need to watch TV on mobile devices?... to be realistic, if I have 3 large, modern color TVs on, they are using less electricity than the 19" B&W console that was the only TV in the house when I was a kid. :P I would even go out on a limb and say the modern LCD/LED flat panels draw less current while on, than old color CRT TVs use in standby mode (when off, but plugged in).

But that's not the point of this thread, regardless if there are simultaneous TVs on, it's why the simultaneous outputs are sabotaged or trashed by the big ugly warning box that covers 2/3 of the picture... :confused:
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#27 OFFLINE   sunking

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:49 AM

OK--so I'd like to see where simultaneous use of outputs is against the "TOS"--I don't think it was in the past or is in the present.

It's very simple. Directv makes money off of people with multiple receivers. While not against the TOS, Directv likes to make money and were given a golden opportunity to close a loophole. Undoubtedly this has driven more than a few customers to pay an exorbitant amount for a 2+ year old 'refurbished' receiver from them and then have the pleasure of being billed each month for it.

#28 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:44 AM

BUMP ^^^^

I had a thought ! Has anyone tried to do this ? Use a HDMI splitter to HDMI-AV converter to RF Modulator ?

I have the HDMI splitter and Modulator but dont have a HDMI to AV converter. If know one chimes in I guess I will go buy one

#29 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:57 AM

This works perfectly but it's not free. I have one hooked up to every receiver so that I can record things to a DVD recorder

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

#30 OFFLINE   onearweiner

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:16 PM

This works perfectly but it's not free. I have one hooked up to every receiver so that I can record things to a DVD recorderl]


So you have hdmi out to an hd tv while simultaneously having component out to the converter? Do you see the guide with the composite out of the converter? Are there any draw backs or other side effects?

#31 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:07 PM

So you have hdmi out to an hd tv while simultaneously having component out to the converter? Do you see the guide with the composite out of the converter? Are there any draw backs or other side effects?


YES - if you go to watch any channels that now have HDCP on them (like HBO & Cinemax) & you do NOT have the HDTV turned on & switched to that said HDMI input, all you get is a black screen with a "connect an HDMI cable" message on it. :mad: :eek2:

Know this VERY well, as I am having this very issue with a client that I had been running 2 HD-DVR's into their main TV on HDMI, with 4 others connected to both receivers w/a 4-way component dist amp on each DVR. I'm fixing their problem now by simply eliminating the HDMI connections entirely, & running ALL the TV's on component - however, if the "analog output loophole" is ever enacted, then this whole setup will be SOL... :(

#32 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:56 AM

Yes you see the guide on the SD set in SD and on the HD set in HD from your HDMI cable. I'm using 5 of them.

#33 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:03 AM

Yes you see the guide on the SD set in SD and on the HD set in HD from your HDMI cable. I'm using 5 of them.


EVEN on HBO, Cinemax???

#34 OFFLINE   onearweiner

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:28 AM

Yes you see the guide on the SD set in SD and on the HD set in HD from your HDMI cable. I'm using 5 of them.


What about the aspect ratio. If I am on an hd channel will I expect to see 16X9 out of the converter, like maybe at 480i ?

#35 OFFLINE   moghedien

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:47 AM

What about the aspect ratio. If I am on an hd channel will I expect to see 16X9 out of the converter, like maybe at 480i ?


The converter doesn't change the aspect ratio. I have the converter between the Directv receiver and a DVD recorder, and all it seems to do is downres the video to 480i and allow me to see the Directv menus without having to change to SD resolution to read them.

#36 OFFLINE   onearweiner

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

The converter doesn't change the aspect ratio. I have the converter between the Directv receiver and a DVD recorder, and all it seems to do is downres the video to 480i and allow me to see the Directv menus without having to change to SD resolution to read them.


Sounds like this is the answer for me for the time being. The cost is equivelent to six/seven months for another receiver that I do not need or want.

Thanks!

#37 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

The converter doesn't change the aspect ratio.


Well yes actually it does...it's taking a 16/9 widscreen picture, & "squeezing it" into a 4/3 picture. So since it does do this, it is actually changing it; it does make people look taller/skinnier on the SD output. Some people might be put off by this...

And you ARE still going to have the problem with any HDCP protected channels anyway you slice it...

#38 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:15 AM

EVEN on HBO, Cinemax???


Yes.

#39 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:23 AM

What about the aspect ratio. If I am on an hd channel will I expect to see 16X9 out of the converter, like maybe at 480i ?


I just checked and I receive all of the channels going into the composite feeds in Pillar Box. I do have Pillar Box selected in the Directv menu because I prefer to see 480i that way. Didn't check to see what would happen if I selected full screen but I suspect it might be stretched. On an HD channel through HDMI the ratio is 16 x 9 through composite it is pillarboxed 4 x 3 (on the same TV). Hope that answers your question. All the converter does is fool the Directv box into thinking it is outputting a component signal to an HD TV instead of composite to an SD TV so that you get no nag screens. Menus are fine.

#40 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:26 AM

Well yes actually it does...it's taking a 16/9 widscreen picture, & "squeezing it" into a 4/3 picture. So since it does do this, it is actually changing it; it does make people look taller/skinnier on the SD output. Some people might be put off by this...

And you ARE still going to have the problem with any HDCP protected channels anyway you slice it...


It looks like perfect 4 x 3 ratio on all of my sets nobody looks taller at all. Are you using one of these or is it just conjecture? I use them for video recording and I do get 16 x 9 on my recordings. I'm not selling these things, someone asked if they work and to me they do. If you say they don't that is your opinion and I'm not asking you to change your mind. Maybe someone else who uses them can chime in with some opinions.

Edited by joed32, 01 December 2012 - 08:32 AM.


#41 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:54 AM

It looks like perfect 4 x 3 ratio on all of my sets nobody looks taller at all. Are you using one of these or is it just conjecture?


Well you'd better get to the eye doctor ASAP - because you obviously do NOT understand the concept that you physically CANNOT take a widescreen (ie: 16x9) picture, downconvert it & send it off to a 4x3 set with a full screen, & STILL get a "perfect picture" on that said set. It has NOTHING to do with "conjecture", but simple, common technical sense. :rolleyes:

I use them for video recording and I do get 16 x 9 on my recordings.


Well then that's NOT really a 4x3 picture then, is it...:confused:

I just checked and I receive all of the channels going into the composite feeds in Pillar Box. I do have Pillar Box selected in the Directv menu because I prefer to see 480i that way. Didn't check to see what would happen if I selected full screen but I suspect it might be stretched.


That's what I was saying all along...either way, it's a compromise on a 4x3 set - you either get a letterboxed 16x9 picture, or you get a full, squeezed picture.

If you say they don't that is your opinion and I'm not asking you to change your mind.


I NEVER said they would NOT work, I simply said there are compromises involved, as I stated in my previous posts. And I'm not asking you to change YOUR mind, either, about this being a "perfect" solution.

#42 OFFLINE   onearweiner

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:43 AM

Well yes actually it does...it's taking a 16/9 widscreen picture, & "squeezing it" into a 4/3 picture. So since it does do this, it is actually changing it; it does make people look taller/skinnier on the SD output. Some people might be put off by this...
..


I do not understand all of the standards to make an argument. However I was under the impression that standard def had a limit of 480 interlaced lines (and some 576) and although ntsc 4x3 was mostly 640x480i....... 720x480i and 702x480i were also standard def.
When I asked the question I was hoping to hear that the 1920x1080p to the converter was scaled to 853x480i

#43 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:06 PM

Well yes actually it does...it's taking a 16/9 widscreen picture, & "squeezing it" into a 4/3 picture. So since it does do this, it is actually changing it; it does make people look taller/skinnier on the SD output. Some people might be put off by this...

And you ARE still going to have the problem with any HDCP protected channels anyway you slice it...


Well since we are talking "technically" here, that signal is "technically" still a 16x9 one. It is what is known as "anamorphic widescreen" which is what is used in DVDs all the time whereas the 16x9 widescreen image is squeezed into the 4:3 frame which requires the receiving TV to re-stretch the image back out to 16:9. If the TV is 4:3 and not capable of doing this, it's the TV's fault, not the signal itself. It's is the exact reason we have anamorphic lenses for projection systems, as well as for stretching 16:9 "anamorphic" squeezed video back out to 2.35:1. Those signals are still considered the aspect ratio of their original format which depend on the display device to handle them properly.

You wouldn't go to a movie theater and watch the latest blockbuster on that giant 2.35:1 screen and say THAT movie wasn't a widescreen aspect ratio would you? This is EXACTLY what they are doing there, with anamorphic lenses. The actual film frame, if looked at through a light source, is squeezed into the film frame.

P.S.- I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just adding to it. :)

Edited by harperhometheater, 02 December 2012 - 02:23 PM.

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#44 OFFLINE   philtec

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

This post seems to be a good place to post my question.
I have a H24/200 connected to 2 SD TVs'. One in bedroom where the box is and one downstairs in my kitchen.
They both are connected to the composite output with a one in two out composite splitter.
The bedroom TV has a direct connection with the composite cables and the kitchen TV is connected with coax that is run thru a RF modulator.
The res on the box is set at 480p and everything runs fine.
I have 2 RF remotes one at each TV.
I live alone and only watch one at a time.
I am planning to buy a HD TV for my bedroom and connect it to the HDMI output of the box.
Will this new setup work or will I be changing the res every time I change location, or will I have to disconnect one of my connections every time I change locations???
Any advice would surely be appreciated.

#45 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

As the thread title mentions, you cannot output HD and SD simultaneously.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#46 OFFLINE   philtec

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

Thanks
So do I need to just change the res OR will I have to disconnect either cable at the box before changing locations?

#47 OFFLINE   JStevensJr

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 02:07 PM

I've been able to get my DirecTV DVR to simultaneously output HD (via both component and HDMI) while also outputting SD via composite audio video - without displaying the annoying message.

  • Put the DirecTV DVR on a standard def channel.
  • Changed the display/video 'Native' setting to 'Off'.

 

JS



#48 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 03:21 PM

I've been able to get my DirecTV DVR to simultaneously output HD (via both component and HDMI) while also outputting SD via composite audio video - without displaying the annoying message.

  • Put the DirecTV DVR on a standard def channel.
  • Changed the display/video 'Native' setting to 'Off'.

 

JS

how are you considering an SD channel HD is amazing!!!


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#49 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 03:52 PM

I'm thinking he's just saying that if you do it while on an SD channel, that it tricks the receiver to somehow then do the simultaneous output from then on, on all channels including the HD ones.  I may be wrong though, but that's how I was reading it.


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#50 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 04:08 PM

then in that case, assuming the receiver was set to "native ON" then the receiver switched to 480i (or P) by switching to an SD channel and kept that way by switching "native OFF" so even if the receiver is tune to an HD channel, it still be SD.  so there is nothing new here.  the HDDVR is not capable of outputting HD and SD at the same time


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