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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Why was simultaneous SD-HD output stopped?


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61 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   moghedien

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:33 PM

I disagree and the zillions of posts just here on DBSTALK from people complaining about this same issue seem to support my opinion. Why pay $6 a pop for more "boxes" when many households have many rooms (and TV's) but not that many TV watchers?

I have many friends with DirecTV and other TV providers and each and every one of them watches the output from a receiver/cable box on multiple TV's using RF remotes or IR senders to transmit the remote control signal back to the "box".

In fact, I watch the output from one of my R15's on THREE different TV sets!


And the question is why? Why spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on additional TVs, IR extenders, and cabling when you can only watch the one program at a time? Can't people watch the same program in the same room anymore? Think of all the electricity that could be saved if these people would just pare down their TV collection...

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#22 OFFLINE   hamltnh

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 08:08 AM

The "box" is designed to work with simultaneous A/V outputs. All outputs are on and display/supply a signal, all the time. AFAIK, in the past, D* has never said this is an unsupported feature. Many of us have set up our systems to take advantage of the feature. It was not until the HD GUI "update" that this started to be a problem with video output. It's a D* software decision.

Would you still be so accepting to this attitude if say the analog audio output presented an audio message, "Please connect your audio system using a digital cable or turn off Dolby® Digital", every time the audio was digital? :eek:


There have been a number of posts on this forum across a number of threads from DirecTV apologists insisting that the receivers were never inteneded for simultaneous display of HD and SD and using the receiver in that way is not "authorized", "never-intended", "not-designed", etc. I would like to see in writing where DirecTV has ever made a statement to that effect or that doing so is a violation of DirecTV's cumstomer agreement.

#23 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:16 AM

There have been a number of posts on this forum across a number of threads from DirecTV apologists insisting that the receivers were never inteneded for simultaneous display of HD and SD and using the receiver in that way is not "authorized", "never-intended", "not-designed", etc. I would like to see in writing where DirecTV has ever made a statement to that effect or that doing so is a violation of DirecTV's cumstomer agreement.


Not gonna happen. And there're big differences among the terms you used. "Not designed for" is a far cry from "against TOS".
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#24 OFFLINE   hamltnh

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:20 AM

Not gonna happen. And there're big differences among the terms you used. "Not designed for" is a far cry from "against TOS".


OK--so I'd like to see where simultaneous use of outputs is against the "TOS"--I don't think it was in the past or is in the present.

#25 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:39 AM

OK--so I'd like to see where simultaneous use of outputs is against the "TOS"--I don't think it was in the past or is in the present.


I don't either. Nor do I recall anyone maintaining that. Perhaps you can link to the posts that do??
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#26 OFFLINE   jes

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:46 AM

And the question is why? Why spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on additional TVs, IR extenders, and cabling when you can only watch the one program at a time? Can't people watch the same program in the same room anymore? Think of all the electricity that could be saved if these people would just pare down their TV collection...


While that's a fair question, as is: Why do people need to watch TV on mobile devices?... to be realistic, if I have 3 large, modern color TVs on, they are using less electricity than the 19" B&W console that was the only TV in the house when I was a kid. :P I would even go out on a limb and say the modern LCD/LED flat panels draw less current while on, than old color CRT TVs use in standby mode (when off, but plugged in).

But that's not the point of this thread, regardless if there are simultaneous TVs on, it's why the simultaneous outputs are sabotaged or trashed by the big ugly warning box that covers 2/3 of the picture... :confused:
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#27 OFFLINE   sunking

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:49 AM

OK--so I'd like to see where simultaneous use of outputs is against the "TOS"--I don't think it was in the past or is in the present.

It's very simple. Directv makes money off of people with multiple receivers. While not against the TOS, Directv likes to make money and were given a golden opportunity to close a loophole. Undoubtedly this has driven more than a few customers to pay an exorbitant amount for a 2+ year old 'refurbished' receiver from them and then have the pleasure of being billed each month for it.

#28 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:44 AM

BUMP ^^^^

I had a thought ! Has anyone tried to do this ? Use a HDMI splitter to HDMI-AV converter to RF Modulator ?

I have the HDMI splitter and Modulator but dont have a HDMI to AV converter. If know one chimes in I guess I will go buy one

#29 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:57 AM

This works perfectly but it's not free. I have one hooked up to every receiver so that I can record things to a DVD recorder

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

#30 OFFLINE   onearweiner

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:16 PM

This works perfectly but it's not free. I have one hooked up to every receiver so that I can record things to a DVD recorderl]


So you have hdmi out to an hd tv while simultaneously having component out to the converter? Do you see the guide with the composite out of the converter? Are there any draw backs or other side effects?

#31 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:07 PM

So you have hdmi out to an hd tv while simultaneously having component out to the converter? Do you see the guide with the composite out of the converter? Are there any draw backs or other side effects?


YES - if you go to watch any channels that now have HDCP on them (like HBO & Cinemax) & you do NOT have the HDTV turned on & switched to that said HDMI input, all you get is a black screen with a "connect an HDMI cable" message on it. :mad: :eek2:

Know this VERY well, as I am having this very issue with a client that I had been running 2 HD-DVR's into their main TV on HDMI, with 4 others connected to both receivers w/a 4-way component dist amp on each DVR. I'm fixing their problem now by simply eliminating the HDMI connections entirely, & running ALL the TV's on component - however, if the "analog output loophole" is ever enacted, then this whole setup will be SOL... :(

#32 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:56 AM

Yes you see the guide on the SD set in SD and on the HD set in HD from your HDMI cable. I'm using 5 of them.

#33 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:03 AM

Yes you see the guide on the SD set in SD and on the HD set in HD from your HDMI cable. I'm using 5 of them.


EVEN on HBO, Cinemax???

#34 OFFLINE   onearweiner

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:28 AM

Yes you see the guide on the SD set in SD and on the HD set in HD from your HDMI cable. I'm using 5 of them.


What about the aspect ratio. If I am on an hd channel will I expect to see 16X9 out of the converter, like maybe at 480i ?

#35 OFFLINE   moghedien

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:47 AM

What about the aspect ratio. If I am on an hd channel will I expect to see 16X9 out of the converter, like maybe at 480i ?


The converter doesn't change the aspect ratio. I have the converter between the Directv receiver and a DVD recorder, and all it seems to do is downres the video to 480i and allow me to see the Directv menus without having to change to SD resolution to read them.

#36 OFFLINE   onearweiner

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

The converter doesn't change the aspect ratio. I have the converter between the Directv receiver and a DVD recorder, and all it seems to do is downres the video to 480i and allow me to see the Directv menus without having to change to SD resolution to read them.


Sounds like this is the answer for me for the time being. The cost is equivelent to six/seven months for another receiver that I do not need or want.

Thanks!

#37 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

The converter doesn't change the aspect ratio.


Well yes actually it does...it's taking a 16/9 widscreen picture, & "squeezing it" into a 4/3 picture. So since it does do this, it is actually changing it; it does make people look taller/skinnier on the SD output. Some people might be put off by this...

And you ARE still going to have the problem with any HDCP protected channels anyway you slice it...

#38 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:15 AM

EVEN on HBO, Cinemax???


Yes.

#39 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:23 AM

What about the aspect ratio. If I am on an hd channel will I expect to see 16X9 out of the converter, like maybe at 480i ?


I just checked and I receive all of the channels going into the composite feeds in Pillar Box. I do have Pillar Box selected in the Directv menu because I prefer to see 480i that way. Didn't check to see what would happen if I selected full screen but I suspect it might be stretched. On an HD channel through HDMI the ratio is 16 x 9 through composite it is pillarboxed 4 x 3 (on the same TV). Hope that answers your question. All the converter does is fool the Directv box into thinking it is outputting a component signal to an HD TV instead of composite to an SD TV so that you get no nag screens. Menus are fine.

#40 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:26 AM

Well yes actually it does...it's taking a 16/9 widscreen picture, & "squeezing it" into a 4/3 picture. So since it does do this, it is actually changing it; it does make people look taller/skinnier on the SD output. Some people might be put off by this...

And you ARE still going to have the problem with any HDCP protected channels anyway you slice it...


It looks like perfect 4 x 3 ratio on all of my sets nobody looks taller at all. Are you using one of these or is it just conjecture? I use them for video recording and I do get 16 x 9 on my recordings. I'm not selling these things, someone asked if they work and to me they do. If you say they don't that is your opinion and I'm not asking you to change your mind. Maybe someone else who uses them can chime in with some opinions.

Edited by joed32, 01 December 2012 - 08:32 AM.





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