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Why was simultaneous SD-HD output stopped?


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61 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:54 AM

It looks like perfect 4 x 3 ratio on all of my sets nobody looks taller at all. Are you using one of these or is it just conjecture?


Well you'd better get to the eye doctor ASAP - because you obviously do NOT understand the concept that you physically CANNOT take a widescreen (ie: 16x9) picture, downconvert it & send it off to a 4x3 set with a full screen, & STILL get a "perfect picture" on that said set. It has NOTHING to do with "conjecture", but simple, common technical sense. :rolleyes:

I use them for video recording and I do get 16 x 9 on my recordings.


Well then that's NOT really a 4x3 picture then, is it...:confused:

I just checked and I receive all of the channels going into the composite feeds in Pillar Box. I do have Pillar Box selected in the Directv menu because I prefer to see 480i that way. Didn't check to see what would happen if I selected full screen but I suspect it might be stretched.


That's what I was saying all along...either way, it's a compromise on a 4x3 set - you either get a letterboxed 16x9 picture, or you get a full, squeezed picture.

If you say they don't that is your opinion and I'm not asking you to change your mind.


I NEVER said they would NOT work, I simply said there are compromises involved, as I stated in my previous posts. And I'm not asking you to change YOUR mind, either, about this being a "perfect" solution.

#42 OFFLINE   onearweiner

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:43 AM

Well yes actually it does...it's taking a 16/9 widscreen picture, & "squeezing it" into a 4/3 picture. So since it does do this, it is actually changing it; it does make people look taller/skinnier on the SD output. Some people might be put off by this...
..


I do not understand all of the standards to make an argument. However I was under the impression that standard def had a limit of 480 interlaced lines (and some 576) and although ntsc 4x3 was mostly 640x480i....... 720x480i and 702x480i were also standard def.
When I asked the question I was hoping to hear that the 1920x1080p to the converter was scaled to 853x480i

#43 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:06 PM

Well yes actually it does...it's taking a 16/9 widscreen picture, & "squeezing it" into a 4/3 picture. So since it does do this, it is actually changing it; it does make people look taller/skinnier on the SD output. Some people might be put off by this...

And you ARE still going to have the problem with any HDCP protected channels anyway you slice it...


Well since we are talking "technically" here, that signal is "technically" still a 16x9 one. It is what is known as "anamorphic widescreen" which is what is used in DVDs all the time whereas the 16x9 widescreen image is squeezed into the 4:3 frame which requires the receiving TV to re-stretch the image back out to 16:9. If the TV is 4:3 and not capable of doing this, it's the TV's fault, not the signal itself. It's is the exact reason we have anamorphic lenses for projection systems, as well as for stretching 16:9 "anamorphic" squeezed video back out to 2.35:1. Those signals are still considered the aspect ratio of their original format which depend on the display device to handle them properly.

You wouldn't go to a movie theater and watch the latest blockbuster on that giant 2.35:1 screen and say THAT movie wasn't a widescreen aspect ratio would you? This is EXACTLY what they are doing there, with anamorphic lenses. The actual film frame, if looked at through a light source, is squeezed into the film frame.

P.S.- I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just adding to it. :)

Edited by harperhometheater, 02 December 2012 - 02:23 PM.

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#44 OFFLINE   philtec

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

This post seems to be a good place to post my question.
I have a H24/200 connected to 2 SD TVs'. One in bedroom where the box is and one downstairs in my kitchen.
They both are connected to the composite output with a one in two out composite splitter.
The bedroom TV has a direct connection with the composite cables and the kitchen TV is connected with coax that is run thru a RF modulator.
The res on the box is set at 480p and everything runs fine.
I have 2 RF remotes one at each TV.
I live alone and only watch one at a time.
I am planning to buy a HD TV for my bedroom and connect it to the HDMI output of the box.
Will this new setup work or will I be changing the res every time I change location, or will I have to disconnect one of my connections every time I change locations???
Any advice would surely be appreciated.

#45 ONLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

As the thread title mentions, you cannot output HD and SD simultaneously.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#46 OFFLINE   philtec

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

Thanks
So do I need to just change the res OR will I have to disconnect either cable at the box before changing locations?

#47 OFFLINE   JStevensJr

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 02:07 PM

I've been able to get my DirecTV DVR to simultaneously output HD (via both component and HDMI) while also outputting SD via composite audio video - without displaying the annoying message.

  • Put the DirecTV DVR on a standard def channel.
  • Changed the display/video 'Native' setting to 'Off'.

 

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#48 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 03:21 PM

I've been able to get my DirecTV DVR to simultaneously output HD (via both component and HDMI) while also outputting SD via composite audio video - without displaying the annoying message.

  • Put the DirecTV DVR on a standard def channel.
  • Changed the display/video 'Native' setting to 'Off'.

 

JS

how are you considering an SD channel HD is amazing!!!


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#49 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 03:52 PM

I'm thinking he's just saying that if you do it while on an SD channel, that it tricks the receiver to somehow then do the simultaneous output from then on, on all channels including the HD ones.  I may be wrong though, but that's how I was reading it.


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#50 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 04:08 PM

then in that case, assuming the receiver was set to "native ON" then the receiver switched to 480i (or P) by switching to an SD channel and kept that way by switching "native OFF" so even if the receiver is tune to an HD channel, it still be SD.  so there is nothing new here.  the HDDVR is not capable of outputting HD and SD at the same time


Here’s to the crazy ones.
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The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#51 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 04:43 PM

But he didn't say what he set the resolution to when he turned native to OFF.  Maybe he set it to 1080i, which would scale any other resolutions (480i/p, 720p) to 1080i?


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#52 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 04:46 PM

But he didn't say what he set the resolution to when he turned native to OFF.  Maybe he set it to 1080i, which would scale any other resolutions (480i/p, 720p) to 1080i?

and then we go back to square one, where you can't use and HD output and SD output at the same time without getting the pop up message.


Here’s to the crazy ones.
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The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#53 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 04:58 PM

How do you know that's not what he's saying that he's able to do with the workaround that he posted???  You're making assumptions.  Why don't you wait until he replies and clarifies.


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#54 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 05:01 PM

How do you know that's not what he's saying that he's able to do with the workaround that he posted???  You're making assumptions.  Why don't you wait until he replies and clarifies.

Whose making assumptions.. let me remind of your post 

 

 

I'm thinking he's just saying that if you do it while on an SD channel, that it tricks the receiver to somehow then do the simultaneous output from then on, on all channels including the HD ones.  I may be wrong though, but that's how I was reading it.

 

and mine....

 

 

how are you considering an SD channel HD is amazing!!!

 

I just made a comment...  you made the assumption...


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#55 OFFLINE   philtec

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 05:08 PM

Would this work with a HDMI splitter?

 

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B008FO7PQA



#56 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 05:08 PM

and then we go back to square one, where you can't use and HD output and SD output at the same time without getting the pop up message.

^^^THIS^^^ is the post I was referring to regarding assumptions.  The assumption being that you said he still gets the pop up messages, when he said that he didn't get them by doing his workaround.


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#57 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:24 PM

Excellent explanation TomCat. So are you saying that Motorola and Cisco cable set tops have 4 scalers? They output the GUI on all outputs simultaneously. I send the SD output from an H24 to my SD TV in my bedroom since I'm never in the family room (HDMI) and bedroom (RF) at the same time. The nag screen is too big and obnoxious and I just wish there was a press and hold "exit" command with the iPad or iPhone apps. Don't really need an OSD with the iPad, but a button to dismiss the obnoxious banner would be nice. Press and hold is also flaky with my IR to RF repeaters.

Edited by cypherx, 31 December 2013 - 12:30 PM.


#58 OFFLINE   coconut13

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 01:33 PM

I run 3 SD TV's from my HR24. I have HD in living room, via HD connection from receiver to HD TV. In 3 remote rooms with SD TV's, I have a component cable from the HR24 to a component to composite converter and then a 3-way splitter to the composite hook-ups on the SD TV's. This gives you the same feed on all the TV's without having to convert to SD. The only minor drawback is the HD copyright protection. Meaning certain channels (mostly premium) won't show on the SD TV's unless the HD TV in the living room in on. I don't have many premium channels and the set-up works well for me to be able to view satellite TV in 4 different rooms with just one receiver.



#59 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 02:41 PM

 

The only minor drawback is the HD copyright protection. Meaning certain channels (mostly premium) won't show on the SD TV's unless the HD TV in the living room in on.

I solved that problem years ago but I'm not sure you can even purchase some of the hardware anymore.  My setup is my HR21 has only an HDMI connection which runs to a monoprice HDCP compliant HDMI switch.  One HDMI cable to a HDTV and another to an HDfury2.  Component cable out of the HDfury2 to component to composite converter and composite cables to SD TV.  If the HDTV is off, the SD TV still works.


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#60 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 05:46 PM

If the HDMI goes into an AVR, does it work if the TV is off but the AVR is on (muted if course)?




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