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mountain network /pac12 network...


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#51 OFFLINE   kick4fun

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

GO COUGS!!! I've already told my wife that if I can't watch all Cougar games on Directv, I'm signing up with comcast. Enough said!

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#52 OFFLINE   FenixTX

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 12:19 PM

GO COUGS!!! I've already told my wife that if I can't watch all Cougar games on Directv, I'm signing up with comcast. Enough said!


Well so long and enjoy Comcrap then. :)
Go Big Red!!!

#53 OFFLINE   Boston_bill

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 12:54 PM

Cool, ironically I am also an ASU alum:hurah:


Ive become an Arizona State fan over the last few years my ex girlfriend was from AZ. Really hoping we get the Pac-12 Network. I got almost every ASU game on FSAZ.

#54 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:20 PM

Don't hold your breath on D* carrying the regional Pac-12 networks.

https://twitter.com/...690186987651072

That says it all right there.

Do they really need of all of these new RSN's when they already have perfectly good RSN's already in place in all of those regions that can show the games?

I guess it really is all about the money.

#55 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 06:57 AM

That says it all right there.

Do they really need of all of these new RSN's when they already have perfectly good RSN's already in place in all of those regions that can show the games?

I guess it really is all about the money.


Under this theory, did Time Warner need to start a new RSN for Laker games when there is a perfectly good Fox Sports channel?

Did Comcast need to start a sports channel in Houston?

Do the Mets and Yankees really need to show themselves on two different sports channels in New York?

Do we really need ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPN Classic, and then ESPN3 web streaming?

I guess we can go on and on with this.....

#56 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:03 AM

Under this theory, did Time Warner need to start a new RSN for Laker games when there is a perfectly good Fox Sports channel?

Did Comcast need to start a sports channel in Houston?

Do the Mets and Yankees really need to show themselves on two different sports channels in New York?

Do we really need ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPN Classic, and then ESPN3 web streaming?

I guess we can go on and on with this.....

Go back a few years when the Chicago teams dumped FSN and started CSN that they own 80% of. They wanted more control over there own broadcasts.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#57 OFFLINE   Michael H..

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:10 PM

I'm getting all my information through unofficial channels, not from the PAC12 Network or DirecTV, but blogs like this one, so I can't guarantee it's accuracy. What I understand the dispute between those two is:
1) $$
2) What/where stations/programming
The 7 stations are comprised of a national station (I'll call it 12.1), and six regional stations of geographically-paired stations, UA & ASU (12.2 Arizona), Stanford & UCB (12.3 Bay Area), ... similarly (Los Angeles), (Mountain), (Oregon), (Washington).

The national station will carry the "marquee" game, attempting to rotate/balance coverage during the season amongst the member schools... There is discussion (but no contractual restriction) to limiting each member school to no more than 2 "national" broadcasts... But when ratings are taken into account, will USC end up appearing 5 times on 12.1?
The home team, in cases of different regional teams, will comprise the region designated station... UCLA@ASU will be broadcast on 12.2 Arizona, but not on the Los Angeles station.

The PAC12 is attempting to schedule games where one team is home and the other on the road, or at different times if both teams are at home so there are no broadcast conflicts.
The network model maximizes the number of games/sports which can be broadcast over the seven stations, but also virtually requires that all seven stations are CONUS to enable viewers across the country to ensure that they can watch their particular team.
This seems to replicate the current RSN/out-of-market RSN's format, but differs in one fundamental way.
There is a "virtual" 12.1-equivalent RSN which is a default broadcast over all of the regionals, not just over the "PAC12" region, but across all regionals nationwide. The same game is simulcast on most of the regions, with the exception of blackouts or region-specific exclusive negotiated contracts. Those of you with the regional package have seen what I'm talking about... Ball ST@Ohio ST is on all of the RSN's.

All of you that are promising to leave DirecTV, need to take into account that what the PAC12 Network folks are insisting that DTV carry... and pay for... is a departure from the current options, and when it appears that all of the other conferences seem like-minded, it is apparent that DTV can't accomodate ALL of them... there is going to have to be some sort of compromise.

As a UCLA alum, who lives out of state, I would like to see this come to fruition in its entirety... but I don't see it happening.

#58 OFFLINE   mws192

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:34 PM

The 7 stations are comprised of a national station (I'll call it 12.1), and six regional stations of geographically-paired stations, UA & ASU (12.2 Arizona), Stanford & UCB (12.3 Bay Area), ... similarly (Los Angeles), (Mountain), (Oregon), (Washington).

The national station will carry the "marquee" game, attempting to rotate/balance coverage during the season amongst the member schools...

The network model maximizes the number of games/sports which can be broadcast over the seven stations, but also virtually requires that all seven stations are CONUS to enable viewers across the country to ensure that they can watch their particular team.


Carry the national feed full time and have football and basketball game-only part time feeds for the rest. Problem solved.

Questions? See BTN.

#59 OFFLINE   Devo1237

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:46 PM

UCLA@ASU will be broadcast on 12.2 Arizona, but not on the Los Angeles station.


How would this work if you have cable in LA and only get the national P12 channel and the LA regional one? Would you not have access to the game? Is P12 expecting all the cable operators to carry all 7 channels? I thought that was a unique problem for the satellite guys which is why they're much more reluctant to sign on.

#60 OFFLINE   mws192

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:22 PM

How would this work if you have cable in LA and only get the national P12 channel and the LA regional one? Would you not have access to the game? Is P12 expecting all the cable operators to carry all 7 channels? I thought that was a unique problem for the satellite guys which is why they're much more reluctant to sign on.


This could very well end with out-of-market cable and satellite subscribers being forced to watch many of the games via the PAC-12 Network's online (authenticated) offering.

Oregon fan living in LA? Get your PAC12-ToGo app ready!

#61 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:01 PM

How would this work if you have cable in LA and only get the national P12 channel and the LA regional one? Would you not have access to the game? Is P12 expecting all the cable operators to carry all 7 channels? I thought that was a unique problem for the satellite guys which is why they're much more reluctant to sign on.


Article made it sound like the PAC 12 wants all outlets to carry all seven.
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#62 ONLINE   David Ortiz

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:49 PM

When the Pac12 Network was first announced, it was reported that Comcast in the Bay Area would be carrying the Northern California channel and the national channel. I would be surprised if any of the regional cable companies were carrying all 7 channels.

The announcement mentioned 350 events that would be shown on the national channel and another 500 events that would shown on the regional channels.

The national channel is supposed to show all football games and men's basketball games (that are not on other networks) and those 350 events will be shown on ALL regional channels as well.

I would think that at any given time, the national channel and at least one other regional channel would be showing the same live event. Mike White's comment about not carrying all seven channels makes perfect sense from DIRECTV's point of view, as there would probably never be seven unique live events on at the same time.

I've wondered about the numbers, as I've heard that each school gets about 50 events per year, which would be counting the 500 plus 100 of the 350 "national" events. So you could say that the national channel is worth itself plus at least one of the regional channels.

So you could say that by carrying the national channel, you're already carrying two of the seven, but more interestingly you are showing over 40 percent of the live events by just carrying the national channel.

It will be interesting to see how the situation turns out, but in all likelihood, satellite and specifically DIRECTV is probably the way to see the maximum number of events from the Pac12 Network. There is a reason they are the sports leader.

#63 OFFLINE   Michael H..

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:20 PM

Rather than try to answer each question/comment to my post, I'll just respond that each question brings to light the problems the service provider faces if they can not/will not carry and make available all seven PAC12 stations nationally.
The PAC12 vision, and the programming set up, is for the provider to carry and pay for all of the stations.
If any other conference demands the same deal, it just further compounds the problem.

The PAC12 has a staggering number of nationally ranked teams, all of which are "deserving" of being televised... the problem is that the majority are non-revenue producing = DTV isn't interested in broadcasting (and paying to do so) because they can't sell advertising for those spots. This is the bottom line.

A friend has a daughter in high school being recruited by UCLA for their H2O polo program. If she ends up there (or at another of the nationally-ranked PAC12 schools) he would like to be able to catch her road games on TV.
There are viewers who want to watch sports other than football and basketball... but they are in the minority, and although the PAC12 wants to force-feed comprehensive sports coverage, DTV (specifically the majority viewers) won't subsidize it.

The comment about the BIG10 Network programming is what I am assuming DTV has counter-proposed, and even if the PAC12 "threw in" those non-revenuers for free, I still think that DTV will refuse to broadcast them, actually proposing that the PAC12 PAY THEM to carry those (this concept is not unheard of, there are a few cases where this happened, the SJ Sharks their first two seasons in the Cow comes to mind).

#64 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:20 PM

Carry the national feed full time and have football and basketball game-only part time feeds for the rest. Problem solved.

Questions? See BTN.


seems more like some of the FSN feeds.

Where there subs feeds and over flow channels.

Cable viewer main get the national as mixed a sub feed with a part time over feed + maybe other alts to show all teams in your area.

or have national full time with a full time RSN feed + alts.

OR the full time rsn feeds can be cut into there own sub feeds.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#65 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:25 PM

When the Pac12 Network was first announced, it was reported that Comcast in the Bay Area would be carrying the Northern California channel and the national channel. I would be surprised if any of the regional cable companies were carrying all 7 channels.

The announcement mentioned 350 events that would be shown on the national channel and another 500 events that would shown on the regional channels.

The national channel is supposed to show all football games and men's basketball games (that are not on other networks) and those 350 events will be shown on ALL regional channels as well.

I would think that at any given time, the national channel and at least one other regional channel would be showing the same live event. Mike White's comment about not carrying all seven channels makes perfect sense from DIRECTV's point of view, as there would probably never be seven unique live events on at the same time.

I've wondered about the numbers, as I've heard that each school gets about 50 events per year, which would be counting the 500 plus 100 of the 350 "national" events. So you could say that the national channel is worth itself plus at least one of the regional channels.

So you could say that by carrying the national channel, you're already carrying two of the seven, but more interestingly you are showing over 40 percent of the live events by just carrying the national channel.

It will be interesting to see how the situation turns out, but in all likelihood, satellite and specifically DIRECTV is probably the way to see the maximum number of events from the Pac12 Network. There is a reason they are the sports leader.


Directv has bandwidth limits on both SD and HD and with other PRO team RSN starting real soon there may not be the room to fit it all in.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#66 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:02 AM

Directv has bandwidth limits on both SD and HD and with other PRO team RSN starting real soon there may not be the room to fit it all in.


That may be and that is a pickle for Directv to figure out. It may mean pulling down some of the pay per view movies for now, or even dropping many of the low watched channels, etc.

Because if the channel is not carried Directv is going to have more than just a capacity problem - Directv will have a subscriber problem. They will lose a tremendous number of folks in a short period of time.

Michael White gets big bucks as Directv CEO - it's time he he earn his pay. He needs to be less of a mouthpiece and more of a critical thinker.

Let's also remember that MOST of the RSNs - at least on the west coast - are losing a tremendous amount of content with the loss of the Pac 12 - CEO White should be seeking concessions from those channels going forward as well. And with Time Warner starting a Laker channel, in the Los Angeles market Fox Sports West/Prime Ticket has lost even MORE content. What are they going to be showing? Perhaps Directv needs to pull down one of these two channels to create available bandwidth.

It really isn't my problem to figure out. It's Michael White's. I have a provider here in town that will carry the games - Coimcast. I will switch, plain and simple. That means that Directv will lose all it's investment in me over something really dumb. And I know I am not alone in this thinking.

#67 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:18 AM

That may be and that is a pickle for Directv to figure out. It may mean pulling down some of the pay per view movies for now, or even dropping many of the low watched channels, etc.

Because if the channel is not carried Directv is going to have more than just a capacity problem - Directv will have a subscriber problem. They will lose a tremendous number of folks in a short period of time.

Michael White gets big bucks as Directv CEO - it's time he he earn his pay. He needs to be less of a mouthpiece and more of a critical thinker.

Let's also remember that MOST of the RSNs - at least on the west coast - are losing a tremendous amount of content with the loss of the Pac 12 - CEO White should be seeking concessions from those channels going forward as well. And with Time Warner starting a Laker channel, in the Los Angeles market Fox Sports West/Prime Ticket has lost even MORE content. What are they going to be showing? Perhaps Directv needs to pull down one of these two channels to create available bandwidth.

It really isn't my problem to figure out. It's Michael White's. I have a provider here in town that will carry the games - Coimcast. I will switch, plain and simple. That means that Directv will lose all it's investment in me over something really dumb. And I know I am not alone in this thinking.


Down seizing ox Sports West/Prime Ticket/San Diego to 1 main + sub feeds does not really help that much also pay per view slots are need for other RSN part time feeds / NFL ST / ETC.

Maybe it's time to start moving to MPEG 4 SD (but then there is all the work to swap out boxes and put in new dishes)

put laker spanish on the 119 satellite
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#68 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:28 AM

Directv has bandwidth limits on both SD and HD and with other PRO team RSN starting real soon there may not be the room to fit it all in.


Yep, this is going to be the biggest challenge. And probably the main reason why we aren't seeing any basic additions either. They have the bandwidth to add the coming RSN's and PAC12, but beyond that..... it is going to get very difficult.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

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#69 OFFLINE   Boston_bill

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:43 AM

I saw a post on Facebook(Arizona State page) yesterday that Arizona St vs Northern AZ is one of the game in early September on Pac_12 Network.
I hope we get this network.

#70 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:48 AM

Let's also remember that MOST of the RSNs - at least on the west coast - are losing a tremendous amount of content with the loss of the Pac 12 - CEO White should be seeking concessions from those channels going forward as well. And with Time Warner starting a Laker channel, in the Los Angeles market Fox Sports West/Prime Ticket has lost even MORE content. What are they going to be showing? Perhaps Directv needs to pull down one of these two channels to create available bandwidth.


This is what is going to be the situation in Southern California:

2x Fox Sports: Dodgers, Angels, Clippers, Ducks, Kings, Galaxy.
2x Time Warner Sportsnet: Lakers, Chivas USA.
?x PAC12 channels: USC, UCLA.

The current RSN's Fox Sports West and Prime Ticket will still show games that have conflicting time slots. Ducks, Kings and Clippers play roughly in the same season period, and at least through 2013 the Angels and Dodgers will play along side each other, and they also still show MLS Soccer, which plays in summer just like baseball.

On top of that, Fox still shows the lesser collegiate leagues, such as Fullerton and UCI baseball, as well as some high schools in the region.

They would definitely lose the USC and UCLA coverage to PAC12, and of course they are losing the Lakers to Time Warner, along with the Chivas USA MLS.

The Fox Sports channels were actually jam-packed, and sold all the conflict schedules off to local channels KCAL9 (Lakers, Dodgers) and KDOC (Ducks) so THREE major league games could be shown at the same time.

In the new situation, all "broadcast rights owning groups" will have enough content to fill the channels.

Also, Prime Ticket shows in San Diego as a local RSN while Fox Sports West does not. NBA and NHL are usually put there, as San Diego doesn't have either and falls under the Kings/Ducks/Clippers/Lakers DMA.

We'll see how things play out, but I believe DirecTV is going to have to use up a lot of bandwidth for all this sports.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#71 OFFLINE   woj027

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 08:09 AM

Up here in Oregon we have two RSN's (ROOT and Comcast Sports Northwest (not on DirecTV)) with limited programming.
For the Pro Teams
We have the Blazers (on CSN-NW) and the Mariners (Root)
For Colleges
We have the Beavers, WSU, UofW (Root) and the Ducks (CSN-NW)
With the Pac12 Network it becomes idiotic.
Blazers - CSN-NW
Mariners - Root
Colleges - Pac12 and Pac 12 Regional?

So now we will have 3 Part Time channels (Root, CSN-NW, Pac12 Regional) a
and 1 full time Pac 12?

This is gonna be crazy!
College - Pac12 + Pac12 Regional

#72 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 09:35 PM

Yep, this is going to be the biggest challenge. And probably the main reason why we aren't seeing any basic additions either. They have the bandwidth to add the coming RSN's and PAC12, but beyond that..... it is going to get very difficult.


Well, that's Directv's problem to figure out. Michael White, Directv CEO gets big bucks. Time for him to start earning it rather than simply be an incompetent mouthpiece.

No doubt Directv has challenges - not unlike any other business in America.

It's Michael White's problem. If he fails to carry the Pac 12 network then he will lose many of his west coast customers, period. He'll do fine back east, but on the west coast he's got to provide access to the channel, someway or somehow. But again, that's why he gets the big bucks and it's time for him to start earning it.

#73 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 09:42 PM

Yes, and recall that Root Sports is owned by Directv!

I think because Root is a part time channel now that we should get some kick back on the rates for this....think we'll see that? Fat chance

Up here in Oregon we have two RSN's (ROOT and Comcast Sports Northwest (not on DirecTV)) with limited programming.
For the Pro Teams
We have the Blazers (on CSN-NW) and the Mariners (Root)
For Colleges
We have the Beavers, WSU, UofW (Root) and the Ducks (CSN-NW)
With the Pac12 Network it becomes idiotic.
Blazers - CSN-NW
Mariners - Root
Colleges - Pac12 and Pac 12 Regional?

So now we will have 3 Part Time channels (Root, CSN-NW, Pac12 Regional) a
and 1 full time Pac 12?

This is gonna be crazy!
College - Pac12 + Pac12 Regional



#74 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 09:43 PM

Maybe but if the channel was with X with the Lakers and the Lakers are not there anymore at all, don't you think some rate reduction should take place? That's common sense, although we know that will not happen.

This is what is going to be the situation in Southern California:

2x Fox Sports: Dodgers, Angels, Clippers, Ducks, Kings, Galaxy.
2x Time Warner Sportsnet: Lakers, Chivas USA.
?x PAC12 channels: USC, UCLA.

The current RSN's Fox Sports West and Prime Ticket will still show games that have conflicting time slots. Ducks, Kings and Clippers play roughly in the same season period, and at least through 2013 the Angels and Dodgers will play along side each other, and they also still show MLS Soccer, which plays in summer just like baseball.

On top of that, Fox still shows the lesser collegiate leagues, such as Fullerton and UCI baseball, as well as some high schools in the region.

They would definitely lose the USC and UCLA coverage to PAC12, and of course they are losing the Lakers to Time Warner, along with the Chivas USA MLS.

The Fox Sports channels were actually jam-packed, and sold all the conflict schedules off to local channels KCAL9 (Lakers, Dodgers) and KDOC (Ducks) so THREE major league games could be shown at the same time.

In the new situation, all "broadcast rights owning groups" will have enough content to fill the channels.

Also, Prime Ticket shows in San Diego as a local RSN while Fox Sports West does not. NBA and NHL are usually put there, as San Diego doesn't have either and falls under the Kings/Ducks/Clippers/Lakers DMA.

We'll see how things play out, but I believe DirecTV is going to have to use up a lot of bandwidth for all this sports.



#75 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 10:36 PM

Maybe but if the channel was with X with the Lakers and the Lakers are not there anymore at all, don't you think some rate reduction should take place? That's common sense, although we know that will not happen.


it's not about cost. It's about bandwidth. Maybe down the road FSN / FS out there can be down sized to 1 main feed + some alt's / sub feeds.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.




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