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EPG for translated channels?


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20 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   kdgrayson

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:19 PM

Greetings all. Is there any chance I will be able to see the EPG for the "locals" I am subscribed to after the analog OTA translators we have currently are upgraded to digital this summer? I have searched here and elswhere and have not been able to come to a clear understanding. I understand that DTV allows for a channel to show up on a "virtual" channel; can the DISH receiver see this and recognize that it is getting the local on a translated channel. Thanks a bunch.

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#2 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 06:53 AM

The Dish receiver will get any digital channel your antenna can see. It will have the EPG and be integrated just like it was a satellite channel if it's one of the regular networks, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, PBS etc... The receiver will also get any sub channel, but the EPG is hit and miss unless the sub channel is an actual network, then it will have the EPG. (In some areas one of the networks is on the sub channel)
Even if the EPG is not available for a sub channel it will still be integrated but the EPG will say "Digital Channel." You can still record it with a manual timer.

Edited by tampa8, 19 May 2012 - 06:59 AM.


#3 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 06:18 PM

Generally if Dish Network does not carry the subchannel over the satellite, they will not carry the EPG for the sub channel.
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#4 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:59 AM

Generally if Dish Network does not carry the subchannel over the satellite, they will not carry the EPG for the sub channel.


Huh??? DISH carries most of the (sub) EPG's. In my area alone, they carry 5 PBS subs, + the subs from 5 other OTA's - NONE of which are carried on sat.

Greetings all. Is there any chance I will be able to see the EPG for the "locals" I am subscribed to after the analog OTA translators we have currently are upgraded to digital this summer?


All depends on if DISH actually uplinks the EPG for all those translators. Considering the hundreds of them out there, it may NOT happen. BUT, at least on DISH, as long as the receiver actually finds the signal when it scans, at least you can do a manual timer record on those channels. (see next item related to this)

I understand that DTV allows for a channel to show up on a "virtual" channel; can the DISH receiver see this and recognize that it is getting the local on a translated channel.


No, & on the contrary - DTV is MORE limited on what their OTA tuners do on their HD DVR's than DISH. Except on their new HR34, NONE of the other current HD DVR's do OTA scanning - so unless they are specifically uplinking the EPG data for a particular channel/sub, the receiver will NOT even be able to tune it in! (guide data or NOT)

#5 OFFLINE   kdgrayson

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:19 AM

Thanks for the replies. Dishrich, I should have been clearer; by DTV I was meaning Digital TV. We have had Oregon Public Broadcasting here locally in digital since the transition; it is a full-power station (KTVR, was an NBC affiliate years ago) but since I am subscribed to the Portland call sign I don't get the EPG. I called and explained that OPB simulcasts the exact same programing across the state but to no avail.

We also have the Boise NBC channel translated; I do not expect to be able to see EPG data for that since I clearly am not subscribed to that channel OTA (but one can always hope).

#6 OFFLINE   BobaBird

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:39 AM

You only have to be subscribed to your locals to be able to get EPG for any other channels you might also be able to pick up if Dish carries the EPG.

From previous discussion, Dish doesn't support translator channels, though it seems it should be simple to link them to the main station's EPG.
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#7 OFFLINE   garys

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 03:02 PM

Huh??? DISH carries most of the (sub) EPG's. In my area alone, they carry 5 PBS subs, + the subs from 5 other OTA's - NONE of which are carried on sat.



This is not entirely true, in Scranton, Dish carries the local ION station, yet it's ota does not have guide info.

#8 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:01 PM

You can get "out of market" guide data for OTA stations in some circumstances.

For example I'm in the Cleveland DMA but receive some of the Youngstown stations OTA. Once I subscribed to the Cleveland locals the Youngstown stations guide data appeared as well (including most subchannels).
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#9 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:25 PM

This is not entirely true, in Scranton, Dish carries the local ION station, yet it's ota does not have guide info.


Well that's because, in your case, (according to James Long's local uplink report) DISH is NOT actually carrying the actual, OTA feed of YOUR local ION station.
They are actually carrying the national ION east coast feed on ch 217 - then ALSO remapping it to your local channels 64 EPG list. So while you think you're watching your local ION feed, you're actually watching the same feed as ch 217.
So, because they are NOT carrying ANY of your local ch 64 - including the primary feed, that's why you have NO EPG data for ANY of it's subs... ;)

DISH does this same thing in several DMA's w/local OTA ION affiliates, so they are NOT having to allocate satellite bandwidth for OTA's that are ONLY putting out the national feed of ION, with no kind of local prog inserted.

Edited by dishrich, 21 May 2012 - 03:56 PM.


#10 OFFLINE   garys

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:08 PM

Well that's because, in your case, (according to James Long's local uplink report) DISH is NOT actually carrying the actual, OTA feed of YOUR local ION station.


Dish is carrying the feed, same designation and same channel number.

#11 OFFLINE   fmcomputer

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:50 PM

WYFX Local Dish channel 62 ( OTA channel 27-2 is listed in the EPG guide ) Local WYFX is also received on channel 19.1 and is only listed as digital service. Dish told me that the programing for this channel can not be listed in the EPG even though it is WYFX local channel.. Oh well --

#12 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:33 PM

Dish is carrying the feed, same designation and same channel number.


"same designation/same ch#" does NOT mean anything! Again, they ARE doing (re)mapping of the national ION feed, to the local OTA number, in selected, designated markets. It's done this way so that people can simply go to their local ION OTA ch, w/out having to remember the national feed ch # - but it's still the national feed either way.

(They used to do this in the Chicago DMA, but ended up switching back to the actual OTA feed later)

Question: So when you go to this local ch 64, on the DISH (NOT OTA) feed, you are sure you're actually getting the local station ID's? (& NOT a "national ID" instead)

#13 OFFLINE   garys

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:53 AM

Yes, I am getting the channel call numbers, not ION.

#14 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:06 AM

Yes, I am getting the channel call numbers, not ION.


No, on the actual, live, station ID's that run IN the programming itself, at the top of each hour. (I'm NOT talking about the "channel call numbers" in the EPG, or in the on-screen receiver info bar that pops up)

It's law that every OTA station identify themselves in their on-screen ID's; again, the fact that it's in the EPG doesn't mean squat as to where the feed originates.

#15 OFFLINE   garys

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:28 PM

It had guide info for a couple of week last year then disappeared. It worked at some point, why didn't it keep working.

#16 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:34 PM

It had guide info for a couple of week last year then disappeared. It worked at some point, why didn't it keep working.


OK, I'm going to try one last time here... :rolleyes:

Again, if DISH is NOT actually, carrying, the actual, OTA signal DIRECTLY from your local OTA ION station - you're NOT going to EVER get guide info on that OTA station - period!
If DISH is taking the national feed, & simply is remapping it to YOUR local OTA ch 64 in the EPG - that does NOT count as YOUR local ION being carried - period!

At one time, DISH DID carry most of the local ION affiliates; however, they made an agreement w/ION Networks, to be able to substitute the national feed, on the local channel numbers in many DMA's, in order to save bandwidth on basically transmitting the same, exact feed on the local spot beams. (FYI, DirecTV did & does the very same thing...)

That is why I asked you if you actually have tried watching the station ID's (on your actual TV screen & NOT in the EPG!) at the top of the hour, which should easily tell you WHICH feed your getting. If you do NOT see your local call letters posted in the video feed, then you actually watching the national feed.

OK, let's try this - go to this link & scroll down to ch 9252: (ignore the typo PBS 44)

http://www.satellite...=dn119&sub=true

If you look there, it plainly shows you that DISH IS doing the very thing I keep telling you is happening. (ch 64 maps back to the CONUS ION national feed)
AND...if you scroll back up to the following channels, the very same thing is happening in other markets, as I already explained: 8762, 8722, 8584, 8562, 8524, 8482 are just a few of the markets this happens in. (there are others as well, but hopefully you understand now...if not, someone else will have to try... :confused: )

#17 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:18 AM

From previous discussion, Dish doesn't support translator channels, though it seems it should be simple to link them to the main station's EPG.

It depends on how the translator works.

Each digital TV station transmits a unique ID called a TSID ... these numbers uniquely identify the station and are what DISH uses to match their satellite and subchannel EPG to what the receiver picks up over the air.

If the translator is a mirror that rebroadcasts the entire signal including the same TSID as the source then the receiver will match the channels received with the EPG data it has for the source. If they use a different TSID on the translator then there will be no match.

It is possible for DISH to add additional EPG only channels (the ones in the 14000/15000s) for each translator and subchannel but they don't. They don't even get the home stations right let alone rebroadcasts.

BTW: A list of all the locals carried by market and all of the EPGs carried by market is available on my website:
http://uplink.jamesl.../locallist.html
The TSIDs are listed on that page for each channel.

#18 OFFLINE   garys

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:29 AM

To Dishrich: It was never explained to me by Dish why the guide info does not show, thank you. It is frustrating that the national feed through Dish has them but not the ota. It also helps to explain how I get guide info on two PBS substations (with local programing) which Dish does not have.

#19 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:02 PM

WYFX Local Dish channel 62 ( OTA channel 27-2 is listed in the EPG guide ) Local WYFX is also received on channel 19.1 and is only listed as digital service. Dish told me that the programing for this channel can not be listed in the EPG even though it is WYFX local channel.. Oh well --


I get the guide data for WYFX on 27.2 (with their lousy SD subchannel of WKBN). So they definitely have the data. Do you subscribe to the Youngstown locals? If so it should show up as a satellite feed as either 19.0 or 62.0.

It's kind of a screwy situation if you can also receive WOIO 19.1 (RF 10 Cleveland or RF 24 repeater out of Akron). I once received WYFX OTA on 19.1 and it wiped out my WOIO OTA since both are virtual 19's (it did not affect 19.2 which is MeTV on WOIO, I had WYFX 19.1 & WOIO 19.2 at the same time).
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#20 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:09 PM

Again, if DISH is NOT actually, carrying, the actual, OTA signal DIRECTLY from your local OTA ION station - you're NOT going to EVER get guide info on that OTA station - period!
If DISH is taking the national feed, & simply is remapping it to YOUR local OTA ch 64 in the EPG - that does NOT count as YOUR local ION being carried - period!


Well, not exactly true. My ION WVPX 23 Akron/Cleveland has guide data on the OTA 23.1 - it is sometimes the incorrect data - but it is data, not "digital service" that I get for 23.2 (QUBO) and 23.3 (ION Life). BTW: My ION station is the ONLY guide listing that does not show the call letters on the OTA 23.1 (It does show WVPX on 23.0 the satellite feed). Go Figure! 23.1 "ION" 23.2 "QUBO", 23.3 "IONL". If they know the names why not show the data for Qubo & "Life"?
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