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Upgraded Dish Question


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25 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   BigSteve63

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:31 AM

OK, I know there is a search function, but I am really looking for a amateur level explanation. I upgraded to HD receivers ~2 years ago, but was left with an old Hughes dish from 15 years ago. DTV upgraded to a slimline dish to allow us to get the HD channels. The new dish has only 1 output from the dish to the inside of the house - not 4 like I have seen on here. The tech installed a power inserter and DECA equipment right behind our main TV. I would like to move all this to my main mechanical area and be able to distribute to any room in the house (I understand that I will need additional receivers when I do this). The tech left me with an 8 way switch, but I really need up to 14 for what I want to do. Would I need to install a SWM 16 and 2 of the 8 way distributions with power inserter (pkgs on Ebay) in my room or move the power and DECA from the main TV to here? If I move what he left, I was told to only be mindful of the power port on the switch. What is the easiest, most efficient way to pull this off? I have an existing mounting panel that has all the required room wiring already in place.

Hopefully, not a stupid question - but, if it is, I apologize in advance! Thanks for any help you can offer!

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#2 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:39 AM

[...]but I really need up to 14 for what I want to do.


What are you trying to do? The answers vary depending on the exact situation.

How many receivers?

What type of receivers?

Are you trying to do anything special beyond having a receiver in each of 14 rooms?
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#3 OFFLINE   eakes

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

Your present antenna/LNB assembly will allow up to eight tuners to be connected. An Hxx model receiver counts as one tuner, an HRxx (DVR) model receiver counts as two tuners. Therefore, you could connect four HRxx receivers or eight Hx receivers or some combination of HRxx and Hxx receivers that totaled no more than eight tuners to your existing antenna hardware.

If you wanted 14 HRxx receivers (all DVRs) to be connected then a SWM16 would not be 'large' enough as the SWM16 will only support 16 tuners. Also the existing LNB assembly would need to be changed to the four output assembly to feed the SWM16.

The 8-way device is merely a splitter, it is not a switch of any kind.

Your best bet is to decide how many of each type receiver (Hxx or HRxx) you desire and call Directv for a system upgrade - especially if you are going to exceed the eight tuners your present antenna hardware will support.

#4 OFFLINE   Justin85

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 02:13 PM

Need a little more info. You stated you will need 14 lines, is this because you are planning to pre-wire those rooms, or do you actually have 14 receivers?

Some of the info above is correct, Hx series counts as one tuner, HR2x counts as 2 tuners (unless in single tuner mode), but with the addition that the HR34 would count as 5 tuners.

But, like I said above, if you are just pre-wiring rooms with no tuner connected, I see no need to have all those rooms "live". no point in installed two 8-way splitters to pre connect rooms that are not active. I'd recommend a coax patch panel to serve that purpose, then just connect the rooms to service as needed.

#5 OFFLINE   BigSteve63

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 03:58 PM

Thanks for the responses - I am have all of my rooms pre-wired; just want to be able to add an additional receiver anywhere I need it. I do not have 14 receivers, just that many drops.

The dish only has the one output, but I think that I have 2 runs to the DVR. The tech told me that I can run a single to each area, then install a splitter for the DVR?

We finally got local support for our area, but I still have the OA antenna that I would like to run through the switch if possible. In a perfect world, even if I don't have a receiver at the drop, I would like to have the TV pickup locals from the drop location. Is this possible?

I am a little bit anal about everything being set up in the mechanical room, so this is my biggest thing to accomplish on the first step.

#6 OFFLINE   BigSteve63

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 04:03 PM

But, like I said above, if you are just pre-wiring rooms with no tuner connected, I see no need to have all those rooms "live". no point in installed two 8-way splitters to pre connect rooms that are not active. I'd recommend a coax patch panel to serve that purpose, then just connect the rooms to service as needed.


I like this approach - can you explain "coax patch panel"? Is this just something that you assemble, or something that is purchased? I have an existing network patch panel for the PCs in the house.

#7 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 05:24 PM

You mentioned DECA, so you will be unable to run satellite and OTA through the same line. You can connect your lines that are not connected to satellite to a splitter feeding those rooms for OTA.

I'm guessing your system is currently set up with the line from the dish feeding an 8-way splitter in your mech room. You can move the power inserter and the DECA connecting your system to the internet to the mech room. A white DECA directly connected to a receiver will have to stay at that receiver. You need to connect the power inserter to the red output of the splitter, usually the top-left port. Connect the DECA to an unused port on the splitter. Place the cap you removed to connect the DECA to the IRD port of the PI. Head back to the living room, if it's searching for signal, switch to the other line.
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#8 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 05:32 PM

I like this approach - can you explain "coax patch panel"? Is this just something that you assemble, or something that is purchased? I have an existing network patch panel for the PCs in the house.


A coax patch panel is just a bunch of F81 splice connectors(like the ones in wall plates). The idea is each line heading to a room connects to a F81. The other side of the F81 is connected to a port on a splitter via another piece of coax. They can be purchased, or made. For the most part, they only make things neater if there are a lot of cables, but only a few are actually connected to something.
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#9 OFFLINE   BigSteve63

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 06:52 PM

dielray - Thank you for the response! Your suggestions make perfect sense; I think I can construct a panel with some aluminum sheet I have. The DECA looks to me like a DSL modem. We entered my security key to get it online over my existing wireless network.

There is what looks like a splitter in the mech room now that feeds the 2 receivers. Should it also have a red marked port? The tech said that he was feeding power back to it from my receiver at the DVR? So my guess is that the power supply would be moved, attached to the red input, then the receiver there is just hooked back to the wall outlet?

I am probably going to have to draw this out before I start the move.

FYI - receivers are an H20 and an HR21

Edited by BigSteve63, 20 May 2012 - 06:58 PM.


#10 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:00 AM

Yes, the splitter in the mech room should have a red port. Basically, the red port is the only port that passes power to the dish.

Before you disconect everything, it's a good idea to take pictures. That way you have a reference point to fall back to.
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#11 OFFLINE   Justin85

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:18 AM

If you are planning to use any sort of wire enclosure, the manufacturer may make a pre-made patch panel. They are also extremely easy to make yourself.

I used a Channel Vision enclosure in my house, so I just purchase their patch panels to save some time.

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B0007G6TGQ

I'll post a pic of what my wiring enclosure looks like when I get home, so you can see what the finished product looks like with those patch panels. I think my setup would be a good reference for you, since I use them to bring in multiple sources, and distribute accordingly.

#12 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:44 AM

The two-way may or may not have a red dielectric. The key is to follow the red line on the label as it will tell you (even when everything is connected) which port passes DC to the dish from the Power Inserter.

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#13 OFFLINE   BigSteve63

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:33 PM

OK - Here is what I have:

There is a primary feed from the dish that goes to a splitter in the mech room.
The splitter does show a red power feed side; cable splits from here, with one leg going to my H20, the other continues to my outlet where the main TV is.
Coming from the wall, the cable goes to another splitter, again following the red power feed. From here, the powered wire goes to the HR21 DVR, the other wire goes to the DECA unit. Both the power supply and the DECA are currently plugged into an unprotected outlet.

If I were to move this to the mech room, my assumptions would be:
1. Split the primary wire from the dish to the power inserter and the DECA
2.Connect the output from the power inserter to the 8 way splitter, then to the receivers

Is this correct? Looking at the 8 way splitter, I see 2 red connections, one in the top left of the 8 outputs, the other on the side (labeled "in from SWM"). Which of these should I use?

Thank you all for your assistance, as well as your patience!

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  • Install.jpg


#14 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:28 AM

If I were to move this to the mech room, my assumptions would be:
1. Split the primary wire from the dish to the power inserter and the DECA
2.Connect the output from the power inserter to the 8 way splitter, then to the receivers


I suggest the following config:
1. Primary wire from the dish connecting to the top in from SWM port. If you have a 4way, use that, otherwise use the 8way.
2. Power inserter's to SWM port connected to splitters red out port. Take one of the caps from the splitter and connect it to the IRD port of the PI.
3. As long as the DECA is not connected via cat5 directly to the receiver, you may connect that to an output on the splitter. Reattach the cap to the unused port on the DECA.
4. Connect each receiver to it's own port.
5. Make sure any unused port on the splitter has a cap.
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#15 OFFLINE   fleckrj

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:32 AM

I suggest the following config:
. . .
5. Make sure any unused port on the splitter has a cap.


The unused ports need a 75 ohm terminator, and not the dust cap that is on the legacy ports of the SWiM.

#16 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:20 AM

How about this?

Remove splitter 2.

Run satellite cable from splitter 1 to the PI input (dish side).

Run PI output (receiver side) to DECA input (dish side).

Run DECA output (receiver side) to HR21 input (SAT).


You need to use a bandstop filter on the H20.

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#17 OFFLINE   BigSteve63

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:46 PM

I suggest the following config:
1. Primary wire from the dish connecting to the top in from SWM port. If you have a 4way, use that, otherwise use the 8way.
2. Power inserter's to SWM port connected to splitters red out port. Take one of the caps from the splitter and connect it to the IRD port of the PI.
3. As long as the DECA is not connected via cat5 directly to the receiver, you may connect that to an output on the splitter. Reattach the cap to the unused port on the DECA.
4. Connect each receiver to it's own port.
5. Make sure any unused port on the splitter has a cap.


How about this?

Remove splitter 2.

Run satellite cable from splitter 1 to the PI input (dish side).

Run PI output (receiver side) to DECA input (dish side).

Run DECA output (receiver side) to HR21 input (SAT).


You need to use a bandstop filter on the H20.


Thanks for the guidance! Sorry for the late replies - I am one of the lucky ones who has to get to work while others are still sleeping! I will probably take a whack at assembling the patch panel this weekend and may get brave enough to tackle moving all the stuff to the mech room. (unless Memorial Day festivities override my plan!)

Thanks again! This site is a great source of information and you guys are much appreciated for sharing your knowledge! I will let you all know how it turns out!:D

Steve

#18 OFFLINE   BigSteve63

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:20 PM

Sorry guys - couple of more questions before I quit for the night:

dielray - I have attached what I understand your suggestion to be, does this look correct to you?

Harsh - in your configuration, how would I pass the signal on to any other receivers if I added them? Probably simple, but I don't understand how it would work?

Thanks - will be checking back tomorrow evening. Have a great night!

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  • Option 1.jpg


#19 OFFLINE   BigSteve63

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 06:26 PM

Looks like everyone is in the middle of the Memorial Day weekend. Could someone take a look at my previous post and let me know if the attached wiring proposal looks correct? I would like to take a whack at this tomorrow. Thanks!

#20 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 09:45 PM

What you show should work. Terminate any unused ports on the splitter with 75 ohm terminating caps. Also, if you are only going to feed two live locations at any given time, a four port splitter would be preferred over the 8 port (less loss to each output port), but the 8 port will most likely work for you.

As one poster suggested earlier, make sure you carefully document what you have now, before you make any changes. That way you can always revert back if you run into problems.

Edited by carl6, 28 May 2012 - 03:05 PM.





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