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Dish AutoHop vs Networks Commercial Skipping Discussion


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#261 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:46 PM

One of the things to keep in mind is that the advertisers not only don't care if people age 50+ watch prime time commercials, they don't consider ratings beyond the live+same day. According to all the articles I read in Advertising Age most advertisers just aren't willing to embrace ratings beyond that time frame. This is generally confirmed in the TV business press.

I'm going to be very focused on how the networks and their affiliates are going to argue that, beginning the day after a program is aired, allowing viewers to skip ads on a show with one press of a button instead of 20 presses of the button iwould change the economics of broadcast TV.

Anything they argue would have to be supported by the advertising community stating "yes, we are going to accept ad rates based on live+7" or C3 or some other standard currently not generally accepted.

As near as I can tell, my wife and I don't count towards generating ad revenue for the networks and locals because we are over 50, but even if we were 28 we still wouldn't count because we watch nearly everything at least a day after it airs.

I'm trying to figure out how the Auto Hop endangers the prevalent economic model for prime time broadcast TV advertising support.

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#262 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:27 AM

I'm trying to figure out how the Auto Hop endangers the prevalent economic model for prime time broadcast TV advertising support.


As you and others point out... a lot of people already DVR or pause so that they can manually skip commercials.

IF you found out that you could wait until 1am and then have the receiver skip them automatically, don't you think that would impact your desire to watch things now vs a little bit later?

My guess is that the networks and advertisers see that the easier the skipping becomes, the more likely viewers will wait and not watch primetime in primetime so that they can use the new feature.

I don't know how they would "know" that... but if the Dish receivers do collect/report that info, then there could very well be data to suggest that since the introduction of AutoHop perhaps more viewers have been waiting to watch their shows until the feature kicks in.

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#263 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:28 AM

Does the skipping commercials work on OTA, or just sat delivered locals right now?

Only sat delivered currently since the OTA tuner has not been released yet. Its supposed to be coming out late summer and will be a single tuner.

#264 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 03:46 AM

As you and others point out... a lot of people already DVR or pause so that they can manually skip commercials.

IF you found out that you could wait until 1am and then have the receiver skip them automatically, don't you think that would impact your desire to watch things now vs a little bit later?

My guess is that the networks and advertisers see that the easier the skipping becomes, the more likely viewers will wait and not watch primetime in primetime so that they can use the new feature.


Does anybody watch anything LIVE in Primetime anymore?

I haven't done so in many years. Everything is recorded and watched days or weeks later.
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#265 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 04:34 AM

Before you make another post read this article, or at least read the legal complaints that are filed with the court that are in the article.

http://tv.yahoo.com/...-224625705.html

The premise people keep arguing about is not relevant to the legality of this lawsuit. It doesn't matter what the executives believe or don't believe. It's about what DISH is doing that the networks deem copyright violations and license agreement violations.


In reality the Auto Hop was just the icing on the cake and if I were a consumer I'd be more concerns with the other part of the complaints as well.


So continually rehashing the whole "do they think people watch live tv, commercials, stuff the same day" or any other behavior isn't going to have anything to do with the lawsuit.
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#266 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:46 AM

The premise people keep arguing about is not relevant to the legality of this lawsuit. It doesn't matter what the executives believe or don't believe. It's about what DISH is doing that the networks deem copyright violations and license agreement violations.


They're claiming Dish edits the programming to remove the commercials.

Dish does not in fact edit anything.

This case is ridiculous.

edit: Fox is also..well...being Fox:

Fox also argues that Dish's Sling Adapter service "redistributes and streams Fox's programming over the Internet in violation of copyright law and Dish's agreements with Fox. In doing so, it competes unfairly with licensed providers such as iTunes and Amazon."


So now they're all just piling on to say what we've all known forever: that they don't like consumers having the ability to do with their hardware and signal as they please. Unreal.

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#267 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:49 AM

They're claiming Dish edits the programming to remove the commercials.

Dish does not in fact edit anything.

This case is ridiculous.


Well, if you want to get technical DISH is providing the technology that allows it's customers to to the editing.

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#268 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:53 AM

Well, if you want to get technical DISH is providing the technology that allows it's customers to to the editing.


Which has been provided since the earliest VCRs, not to mention various video editing programs.
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#269 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:55 AM

edit: Fox is also..well...being Fox:


So now they're all just piling on to say what we've all known forever: that they don't like consumers having the ability to do with their hardware and signal as they please. Unreal.


Including the privacy of their cell phone voice mail, right Fox?
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#270 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:12 AM

And just how is it a "copyright violation" ? The commercials ARE in fact being recorded (and if I was a lawyer for Dish this would be demonstrated in court if it comes down to it).

You don't like people skipping your commercials ? Then come up with something truly creative . Make your commercials as compelling as the programming.

And yes - some of us DO watching in realtime - even with DVRs.

The comment about how they think all this Internet stuff and what can be done just shows their mentality - it's about THEM having the only control of WHEN and WHERE it is available. Hint- that ship left a long time ago.
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#271 OFFLINE   Nick

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:43 AM

Well, if you want to get technical DISH is providing the technology that allows it's customers to to the editing.

There is no editing of programming content. DVR users simply have the ability to skip parts (or all) of recorded content.


It's no different than (not then) if, when a commercial starts, you get up and walk to the kitchen for a snack.

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#272 OFFLINE   Marlin Guy

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:10 AM

Precisely. Dish simply refined something that has existed for a very long time.
Commercials are still there. They just made skipping them easier, but it's a still case-by-case decision on behalf of the viewer.

#273 ONLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:41 AM

Anyone else notice that the Fox complaint also takes aim at the Sling adapter?
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#274 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:59 AM

Yes; what took them so long?? :eek2:
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#275 ONLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:07 AM

The Sling discussion is a whole different thing. What's funny is Dish's customer agreement actually forbids rebroadcasting, despite the fact that they sell the sling adapter. You could make an argument that what the sling adapter does is encrypted broadcasting. This could potentially be the end of slingboxing, or ir could establish once and for all that placeshifting for one's own use is completely legal.
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#276 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:08 AM

Anyone else notice that the Fox complaint also takes aim at the Sling adapter?

Scatter shot. DISH has owned Sling for years and now Fox notices? DISH even had Sling built in to a receiver in the past (not a add on) and Fox didn't notice?

This reminds me of the suit a few years ago when Fox News complained that they were not in DISH's lowest package (AT120). Their agreement with DISH placed the channel in DISH's most popular package (AT200). Fox does not seem to be able to pay attention to their contracts.

#277 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

I sure hope the latter! I've never had a chance to experiment with Sling, so I've assume: 1.) The re-casting is at a limited resolution.. (?) 2.) Only the owner can access the stream on his registered equipment. (?)
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#278 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

Having seen Sling advertised elsewhere, I wasn't even sure it was a Dish product.

DISH has owned Sling for years and now Fox notices?


So, did Dish develop it or buy it? If they bought it, why didn't/doesn't Murdoch go after the source?
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#279 ONLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:34 AM

Echostar, the hardware arm, owns Sling if I'm not mistaken.
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#280 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:34 AM

There is no editing of programming content. DVR users simply have the ability to skip parts (or all) of recorded content.


It's no different than (not then) if, when a commercial starts, you get up and walk to the kitchen for a snack.


Your right Nick! I do exactly that every time a DISH commercial starts.

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