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Dish AutoHop vs Networks Commercial Skipping Discussion


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#341 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:07 AM

I keep wondering if this is an issue that Charlie should be suing or getting sued for is worth it. Other than a small marketing message, is this such a big deal that you want to spend millions on?

IMO, not to me. But then again, this is Charlie! :)



I don't believe it is and here's why.Primetime Anytime discriminates because it's not recording all the networks in Primetime so the "other"networks are not showing an increase in viewership like the four networks being recorded.

AutoHop will cause advertisers to spend their advertising dollars elsewhere where the consumer cannot use a feature to"eliminate" commercials.So an increase in carriage fees will be needed for the networks to survive.

I have normally supported DISH but this idea I have to say"What are you thinking"!.:nono2:

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#342 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:19 AM

AutoHop will cause advertisers to spend their advertising dollars elsewhere where the consumer cannot use a feature to"eliminate" commercials.


Once again, it is NOT eliminating commercials.
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#343 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:27 AM

Once again, it is NOT eliminating commercials.


Technically correct, but in actual practice that is exactly what it is doing! Who wouldn't opt to have it automagically skip commercials?

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#344 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:32 AM

Once again, it is NOT eliminating commercials.


With all due respect I believe it is,but that will actually be a judge and jury's job to decide.

#345 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:46 AM

AutoHop will cause advertisers to spend their advertising dollars elsewhere where the consumer cannot use a feature to"eliminate" commercials.


Once again, it is NOT eliminating commercials.

You are correct. However, it is the net effect.

Either the consumer is potentially exposed to the commercials due leaving it playing during bathroom breaks or what have you, or that potential is completely removed by AutoHop.

It’s an all or nothing proposition that interferes with the largest money making portion of the networks’ day.

You can argue semantics all you want but it permanently removes eyeballs from the commercials effectively eliminating a significant portion of the target demographics the advertisers are aiming for.

Heck, one could argue this is one company directly interfering with the commerce of another company. I have no idea if that’s even a real legal argument but it certainly sound like what’s going on.

Mike

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#346 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:11 AM

It’s an all or nothing proposition that interferes with the largest money making portion of the networks’ day.

You can argue semantics all you want but it permanently removes eyeballs from the commercials effectively eliminating a significant portion of the target demographics the advertisers are aiming for.

If Dish's technology remains effective and spreads to other providers or Tivo, the problem may become real. But today it isn't real.

The network broadcasters likely have two problems in going to court now:
  • Most Hopper users were DVR users before they changed to Hopper, so the once versus 20 button pushes per show is going to be a lame argument.
  • While C3 (commercial views within the first three days of a show's airing) is now used in ad sales, the primary determinant to measure a show's success or failures is Live+same day viewing by people ages 18-49, the demo that's shrinking the fastest because they have alternatives to traditional TV. The media biz term used now for the 18-25 age group is not "cord cutters" but "cord nevers."
This is going to be an argument that will run through the courts while commercial viewing on traditional TV continues to disappear.

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#347 OFFLINE   Nick

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:27 AM

Personally, I think we need to find intelligent life on Earth first, but we're stuck with network execs and lawyers.

:thats: Now that's funny! !rolling

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#348 OFFLINE   Jhon69

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:37 AM

If Dish's technology remains effective and spreads to other providers or Tivo, the problem may become real. But today it isn't real.

The network broadcasters likely have two problems in going to court now:

  • Most Hopper users were DVR users before they changed to Hopper, so the once versus 20 button pushes per show is going to be a lame argument.
  • While C3 (commercial views within the first three days of a show's airing) is now used in ad sales, the primary determinant to measure a show's success or failures is Live+same day viewing by people ages 18-49, the demo that's shrinking the fastest because they have alternatives to traditional TV. The media biz term used now for the 18-25 age group is not "cord cutters" but "cord nevers."
This is going to be an argument that will run through the courts while commercial viewing on traditional TV continues to disappear.



Oh I believe that in fact like alot of people have said the networks will probably insert the commercials into the program like they used to.Then that would take care of AutoHop and the Skip and the FFW button being used at all.:eek2:

#349 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:45 AM

As far as the "customer demanding" or even "requesting" this feature... I could be wrong, but in all of my time at DBSTalk I can't remember anything like "AutoHop" being requested much if at all. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but it doesn't seem like most customers have an issue with commercials to the degree they would request a feature like this that potentially will cause more harm than it helps.

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#350 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

If Dish's technology remains effective and spreads to other providers or Tivo, the problem may become real. But today it isn't real.

The network broadcasters likely have two problems in going to court now:

  • Most Hopper users were DVR users before they changed to Hopper, so the once versus 20 button pushes per show is going to be a lame argument.
  • While C3 (commercial views within the first three days of a show's airing) is now used in ad sales, the primary determinant to measure a show's success or failures is Live+same day viewing by people ages 18-49, the demo that's shrinking the fastest because they have alternatives to traditional TV. The media biz term used now for the 18-25 age group is not "cord cutters" but "cord nevers."
This is going to be an argument that will run through the courts while commercial viewing on traditional TV continues to disappear.

You’re right, it currently isn’t real.

However, the networks will treat it as if is a threat because if they don’t then it will spread to other providers/TiVo.

From the broadcasters point of view it’s as real now as it ever will be in the future.

Mike

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#351 OFFLINE   Nick

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:15 AM

As far as the "customer demanding" or even "requesting" this feature... I could be wrong, but in all of my time at DBSTalk I can't remember anything like "AutoHop" being requested much if at all. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but it doesn't seem like most customers have an issue with commercials to the degree they would request a feature like this that potentially will cause more harm than it helps.

No one knew they "needed" an i-Pad before it was invented, either. The secret to success is simple: 'create a need, then fill it.'

Charlie knows that very well.

Edited by Nick, 29 May 2012 - 11:24 AM.

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#352 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:17 AM

I don't remember any requests for it either. Maybe a wouldn't if be nice kind of comment maybe.

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#353 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:27 AM

As far as the "customer demanding" or even "requesting" this feature... I could be wrong, but in all of my time at DBSTalk I can't remember anything like "AutoHop" being requested much if at all. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but it doesn't seem like most customers have an issue with commercials to the degree they would request a feature like this that potentially will cause more harm than it helps.


I think it's one of those things we never thought was feasible so why request it type of things.
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#354 OFFLINE   Nick

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:31 AM

I think it's one of those things we never thought was feasible so why request it type of things.

Feasibility studies are the hob goblins of small minds.

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#355 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:53 AM

Have the feature and love it, thanks Dish. How many times do I actually use it? Surprisingly not that often because the bulk of my viewing does not come from the major ad subsidized networks to begin with and then often times I watch prior to 1AM on the day of the broadcast.

I really think this feature will have mininal effect on ad revenue. In other words, where do the advertisers go? To fixed billboards, the internet, facebook? Maybe P&G and the automakers place more ads on people wearing electronic sandwich boards? I highly doubt it. This may give the networks some headaches with advertisors at the negotiating table but in the end there will always be ads on so-called free TV.

I will gladly pay more to have them ad-free or with the ability to skip ads just like I have been doing now for more than 20 years. Technology marches on and marketing adapts to the marketplace.

#356 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:33 PM

I don't have a hopper but if I did I would still be watching shows the same evening and using the 30 second skip for commercials and every now and then backing up when something caught my eye and my finger was faster hitting the button.

If I had it I don't know if I'd use the skip the whole block of commercials.

I do recall watching something and during the show they were advertising some movie on the bottom of the screen.

And the race, what was up with the split screen race on the right and commercials on the left with the commercials having the sound.

Seems like they already found a way around it.
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#357 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:16 PM

Or Dish could simply say they're not carrying locals anymore and use the bandwidth for something else. That would end the retrans gravy train and suddenly the locals would have bigger things to worry about than a few people skipping commercials, which most people do anyways.


I think your very mistaken if you think dish isn't trying to set a precedence and role this out to all programs on all channels at some point

#358 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:18 PM

You think even if this didn't exist the exact same high carriage fees wouldn't be charged onto the consumers? :confused:


If this stays I think he's saying and I agree that rates for channels will go up astronomically. I'd guess six bucks a channel or more for channels with hop.

#359 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:38 PM

Once again, it is NOT eliminating commercials.


It is eliminating them from the viewing stream without the need for any active participation from the user.

#360 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:45 PM

^Still in the stream just automatically hopping past them. The user is participating by choosing to enable the feature and also by watching after a predetermined amount of time. Not enough participation for you but more than enough for me.




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