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Dish AutoHop vs Networks Commercial Skipping Discussion


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#26 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 05:00 AM

Either way, it's stealing.


Is it? Then I've been stealing since 1984 when I started time shifting with a VCR. But I don't think it is stealing, any more than it is stealing to ignore the advertisements in the newspaper or magazine. Tell me, do you read them all, word-for-word, every day or month those print editions show up on your doorstep? In my view, television ads are there for me to watch if I want to, not something that I am obligated to watch.

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#27 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 05:38 AM

And think how long it took to resolve the Tivo case....

The broadcasters are a little more powerful than Tivo ... or at least they were. Probably a better direct comparison is the broadcaster's suit against DISH in the Distants case.

If one were to use the Tivo case my first question would be "who won?". Other than the lawyers, Tivo ended up with some money, DISH removed Tivo technology once it was deemed infringing (please put it back) and other than DVR performance issues and people who follow the industry, customers didn't notice.

The Distants case led to new federal law ALLOWING what DISH and DirecTV wanted to do ... a victory for satellite broadcasters. DISH's eventual loss came from not following the new federal law and allowing customers to receive distants who were not qualified. Even that has been repaired through additional changes in federal law.

It will be a long drawn out battle ... but I do not expect it to be solved in the courts. I expect it to be solved at the negotiating table when retransmission consent is renewed for each local station. Stations demanding that AutoHOP be disabled on their station as a term of carriage.

Broadcasters have already proven that they don't care about satellite viewers ... and they are willing to sacrifice the viewership during contract disputes. They assume that their viewers want the local channel more than they want satellite - and in some ways that is true. But it needs to be more of a partnership.

Perhaps a local non-skipable ad at the beginning of the program could "pay" for the use of AutoHOP on each channel? "This AutoHOP program is brought to you with limited commercial interruptions by ... local sponsor." Or a national sponsor with the "per impression" money going to the local station.

Something will be worked out.

#28 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:15 AM

I believe the issue is, is it worth the money and effort to take on a lengthly legal war over a negligible position? Clearly it is not, but that is no guarantee that it won't happen. My wife is affiliated with Media News which owns her local newspaper, there's a saying in the newsroom when a suit is threaten by a pissed off politician or local....go ahead... we have lawyers sitting around waiting for the phone to ring....!
Posturing... Auto Hop is to big to fail....
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#29 OFFLINE   Cable Lover

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 05:47 AM

http://www.nytimes.c...ronts.html?_r=1


I think it's the coolest thing yet, but NBC, CBS and the other's disagree.
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#30 OFFLINE   Cable Lover

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 05:48 AM

So they are closing ranks to try to stop it. At least one of the network owners, News Corporation, is no longer accepting Dish’s new DVR ads on any of its television properties. It and several other owners are examining whether they can sue Dish, the same way they sued a maker of DVRs a decade ago, according to several people with knowledge of the deliberations, who insisted on anonymity to speak freely about the internal discussions
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#31 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:03 AM

I wonder if this will be the beginning of the end of skipping commercials?

I bet the networks will require it be stopped altogether, or will start charging a monthly fee to skip them. Its going to get interesting.

#32 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:17 AM

I fully admit I don't have a Hopper, but this is something that potentially affects all of us.

My main thing is that those using the Hopper and skipping the commercials generally were anyway. Same thing with a lot of other Dish and DirecTV customers either by fast forwarding or using a 30 second skip.

If the networks end up putting contrived ads into programming with awkward dialog (like Fox did on Bones), it will drive viewers nuts.

#33 OFFLINE   shuye

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:20 AM

They should go to a price model like many of the apps - if the customer wants it free, they get commercials. If they don't want commercials, then they pay a monthly subscription. I'd gladly pay $1 per month per network channel to have no commercials and just fill in the "dead" time with a local news or weather update

#34 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:27 AM

They should go to a price model like many of the apps - if the customer wants it free, they get commercials. If they don't want commercials, then they pay a monthly subscription.


That is the problem. We already DO pay a monthly subscription, and STILL get commercials.

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#35 OFFLINE   Cable Lover

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:39 AM

If the networks end up putting contrived ads into programming with awkward dialog (like Fox did on Bones), it will drive viewers nuts.



HOUSE has become bad about that as well. This season I've seen many Ford ads worked into the show.
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#36 ONLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 08:10 AM

I'd gladly pay $1 per month per network channel to have no commercials and just fill in the "dead" time with a local news or weather update


Not me. The networks rake in enough already.
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#37 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 09:42 AM

They should go to a price model like many of the apps - if the customer wants it free, they get commercials. If they don't want commercials, then they pay a monthly subscription. I'd gladly pay $1 per month per network channel to have no commercials and just fill in the "dead" time with a local news or weather update

And if the cable networks get in on this as well you'll still pay $1.00 per channel? I don't think so.

#38 OFFLINE   zer0cool

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 09:54 AM

That you can't use the feature until AFTER the show airs, which means if you are watching, you are watching some kind of recording, be it DVR or Video tape (ugh). Who doesn't skip the commercials on their recorded programming?

Now, granted when using the standard skip buttons, I occasionally see part of an ad that makes me rewind and watch the whole thing, but not very often.

#39 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 09:55 AM

There is a discussion thread about this subject over in the Hopper Forum area Auto Hop versus broadcast TV lawsuit an early topic at the Upfronts.

Perhaps a moderator could combine them.

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#40 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:40 AM

That is the problem. We already DO pay a monthly subscription, and STILL get commercials.


Exactly.

The locals can produce all the commercials they want. [ no one is fighting that] and by the way, [ for the huge sums of money spent on advertising] has anyone seen at least a "clever" commercial lately? 99.9% of them are incredibly stupid.

Why do we have to be force-fed them? Especially at obnoxiously higher decibel levels? The tv industry is still dragging their feet on that one.

I don't even have a hopper, but I hope Dish doesn't cave.

#41 OFFLINE   TvilleBee

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:46 AM

Will they outlaw ad blockers for the internet too??? We're flooded w/ so much advertising everywhere that it's absurd...

#42 ONLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:54 AM

^^ Don't give'em any ideas.
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#43 OFFLINE   Richard

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:46 AM

The networks, by charging DISH and DirecTV to "retransmit" their signals, are already making more money than they should. We shouldn't have to also sit through commercial after commercial.

I always fast forward through commercials, and always will. DISH is just making it easier for their customers to do so. They are already limiting it to next day viewing, that should have been enough to placate them.

#44 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:23 PM

I bet they could put this ad zapper feature in older model DVR's as well.
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#45 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:57 PM

Threads merged.

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#46 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:09 PM

I bet they could put this ad zapper feature in older model DVR's as well.


No doubt, but it makes a great selling point for existing customers to upgrade, does it not?

#47 OFFLINE   Grandude

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:52 AM

Exactly.

has anyone seen at least a "clever" commercial lately? 99.9% of them are incredibly stupid.

Only a few but even the clever ones become annoying after you've seen them 83 times. (except for, of course, the Victoria's Secret ones.:grin:)

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#48 OFFLINE   BillJ

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 04:30 AM

The networks have their heads in the sand. The barn door has been open since DVR technology came along. I almost never watch commercials anyway - I skip them and rarely (less than once a week, and less than once a month for more than five minutes) watch live television. I love the auto hop not because it lets me skip commercials, but because it makes it quicker and more accurate.

Oddly, the NASCAR race on Saturday did not have auto-hop enabled, even two days later.


You must be a youngster. That ability has been around since the VCR was invented. It just keeps getting easier. First the skip button on remotes and now with auto hop we don't even have to exercise our thumbs.

#49 OFFLINE   FilmMixer

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:57 AM

Why do we have to be force-fed them? Especially at obnoxiously higher decibel levels? The tv industry is still dragging their feet on that one.


Unfortunately the networks did nothing on their own, so the government has stepped in...

The unfortunate side effect has been stricter regulation by some content makers that I work for in also reducing the dynamic range of the regular content...

The CALM Act

Q: Does the FCC currently regulate loud commercials?
A: The Commission adopted rules on December 13, 2011 that will require commercials to have the same average volume as the programs they accompany. The rules will become effective on December 13, 2012, 1 year after the date of their adoption. This gives broadcast television stations and pay TV providers until this date to be in full compliance.



#50 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:05 AM

I fully admit I don't have a Hopper, but this is something that potentially affects all of us.

My main thing is that those using the Hopper and skipping the commercials generally were anyway. Same thing with a lot of other Dish and DirecTV customers either by fast forwarding or using a 30 second skip.

If the networks end up putting contrived ads into programming with awkward dialog (like Fox did on Bones), it will drive viewers nuts.


Integrated ads haven't been used much for many years, but it isn't something new at all. I can vaguely remember some old crime show from the black & white days that slipped ads in when a character would go into the tobacco shop for Model pipe tobacco (that comes to mind, maybe other brands/products too). Those are much harder to skip since they weren't really fixed in time and often were made part of the story line.

Maybe that is an approach the broadcasters can use.

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