Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Dish AutoHop vs Networks Commercial Skipping Discussion


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
694 replies to this topic

#676 OFFLINE   phrelin

phrelin

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 13,710 posts
  • LocationNorthern California Redwoods
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:57 PM

It was ruled that the neworks lawsuit could proceed in California.

http://www.hollywood...it-judge-346574

Yeah, I just saw that. The full ruling is here. Interesting reading.

The THR article summarizing the situation says:

A federal judge in New York has ruled that Fox, NBC, and CBS should be allowed to pursue their high-profile legal dispute over Dish Network's controversial ad-skipping device in California.

...The judge is dismissing without prejudice Dish's complaint as it pertains to Fox's copyright and contract claims as well as CBS/NBC's copyright claims. Dish's lawsuit against CBS and NBC over contract issues will continue in New York as those issues weren't asserted in California. Additionally, Dish's is being given the go-ahead to pursue declaratory action against ABC that it hasn't breached copyright or violated a contract. ABC was the only major network not to bring a lawsuit, though it has signaled that it intends to file counterclaims.

...Dish had the following statement about today's development:

“Regardless of the venue, we look forward to proceeding with this case,recognizing that it has been 28 years since the Supreme Court’s “Betamax” decision held that a viewer, in the privacy of their home, could record a television show to watch later. The Court ruled that ‘time-shifting’ constituted a fair use of copyrighted television programming. Those Betamax users could permissibly fast-forward through commercials on recorded shows – just as DVR users do today. DISH will stand behind consumers and their right to skip commercials, something they have been doing since the invention of the remote control.”


Edited by phrelin, 09 July 2012 - 04:41 PM.
Added the THR quote

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#677 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 41,380 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:41 PM

Oh joy. So there will be active cases on both coasts deciding the different parts of the issue?

#678 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 41,380 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:10 PM

There have been some recent software updates on the Hopper that should be noted.

As before, PTAT is not enabled when a new Hopper is installed.
When the user activates PTAT they choose the channels (one or all four) of the major network channels they want to record.
When the user activates PTAT they choose the days of the week (one or all seven) they wish to record programs.
When the user activates PTAT they choose how long to keep the programs ... choices range from 2 to 8 days.

It is more than just an on-off switch.

As for AutoHOP, I have noticed that the default is now "no". When playing back an AutoHOP enabled program the "use AutoHOP" was default ... now "no" is default.

#679 OFFLINE   Mojo Jojo

Mojo Jojo

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 139 posts
Joined: Mar 14, 2012

Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:24 PM

From http://paidcontent.o...al-positioning/

Dish's latest Hopper tweak reeks of legal positioning

By Daniel Frankel

Jul. 26, 2012, 1:56pm

Facing a legal showdown with the broadcast networks over commercial-skipping features in its digital video recorders, Dish Network has quietly made several operating-system tweaks designed to put the ad-circumvention process more in the hands of the user.

This could be crucial in the satellite's legal battle with broadcasters over these features, given that subscribers now have more control of how they're used.

(Please visit the link for more...)

Edited by Mojo Jojo, 26 July 2012 - 03:50 PM.


#680 OFFLINE   strikes2k

strikes2k

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 53 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2008

Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:38 PM

IANAL so can't really comment on the legal ramifications of these changes, but I find them very useful and don't see why DISH wouldn't have implemented them anyways.

#681 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

RasputinAXP

    Kwisatz Haderach of Cordcuttery

  • Registered
  • 3,141 posts
Joined: Jan 23, 2008

Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:53 PM

Paid content.org is just a glorified blog with more Google weighting.

"Belligerent and numerous."

SlingTV, Tablo and Plex to Roku 3s and Chromecasts on a Vizio 42" in the living room and a Toshiba 32" in my bedroom. Xbox 360 client on a Westinghouse 42" in the game room. Tablets EVERYWHERE!

 

I used to update the Dish Network FAQ but not anymore.


#682 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

jdskycaster

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 272 posts
Joined: Sep 01, 2008

Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:32 PM

Is it just me or has the autohop delay also increased. I find that my system plays most of the first commercial at each break and am now regularly hitting the forward skip to engage autohop. Not a huge deal but each time I am having to advance to the point where it autohops. Zero putton pushes have now become at least one button push for each commercial break.

#683 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

RasputinAXP

    Kwisatz Haderach of Cordcuttery

  • Registered
  • 3,141 posts
Joined: Jan 23, 2008

Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:18 AM

Yes it has; it was introduced in the latest firmware update.

"Belligerent and numerous."

SlingTV, Tablo and Plex to Roku 3s and Chromecasts on a Vizio 42" in the living room and a Toshiba 32" in my bedroom. Xbox 360 client on a Westinghouse 42" in the game room. Tablets EVERYWHERE!

 

I used to update the Dish Network FAQ but not anymore.


#684 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

SayWhat?

    Know Nothing

  • Registered
  • 5,964 posts
Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:21 AM

IANAL so can't ...


Unless you need a Proctologist, what are you talking about?
Help stamp out Twits and Twitterers!

HD, SchmacHD!! Just be glad you've got a picture at all.

#685 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 41,380 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 27 July 2012 - 04:28 PM

IANAL so can't ...

Unless you need a Proctologist, what are you talking about?

IANAL = I am not a lawyer.

#686 OFFLINE   mnassour

mnassour

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 843 posts
Joined: Apr 23, 2002

Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:26 PM

Interesting article from one of the industry bibles today, TVNewscheck....

Jessell at Large
Take Your Cue From Moonves: Skip Dish
All broadcasters should follow the lead of CBS's Leslie Moonves and threaten to use their retrans clout to come down hard on Dish Network and the Auto Hop commercial-skipping feature of its Hopper DVR. Allowing subscribers to skip all spots in recorded programs at the touch of a button is a broadcasting killer.


Entire article: http://www.tvnewsche...s And Skip Dish

(or)

http://tinyurl.com/9t9mrh8

CBS appears to be ready to drop Dish as a distributor come contract time and is urging the three others to do the same.

(If this has already been started, please point me there, thanks!)

#687 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 20,424 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 14 September 2012 - 04:34 PM

CBS is in a weird place... in that they could only really threaten to pull local stations that they own and operate.

On a related note.

I'm surprised (and maybe they already have) the networks wouldn't make a big deal out of AutoHop ONLY working for the "big 4" ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX....

If you read Dish's reasoning that they believe people should be able to watch TV however they want... then why didn't Dish make AutoHop work for ALL commercial channels?

The fact that they are singling out the "big 4" shows that Dish isn't really on the customer's side in this... they are just leveraging against the traditional OTA channels.

That is bound to come up in the courts if this thing goes very long.

-- !rotaredoM mA eM

What I do when I'm not here


#688 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

jdskycaster

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 272 posts
Joined: Sep 01, 2008

Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:28 AM

This is much ado about nothing. I rarely find myself with an opportunity to use autohop anyway. When I do the current additional delay that has been inserted by Dish almost always means an additional button press anyway.

The most Autohop has saved me is a few button presses on the rare occasion that I find a show that I actually care about on a channel that is supposed to be free but yet I have to pay a monthly fee for. The networks execs can stick their lawsuit where the sun does not shine!

#689 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 41,380 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

I have noticed that Auto-Hop is becoming available earlier in the evening. I have Auto-Hopped programs recorded at 8pm or 9pm before 11pm. This places more value on the function ... and likely ticks off OTA broadcasters more.

#690 OFFLINE   scooper

scooper

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,945 posts
  • LocationYoungsville NC
Joined: Apr 22, 2002

Posted 15 September 2012 - 03:57 PM

I have noticed that Auto-Hop is becoming available earlier in the evening. I have Auto-Hopped programs recorded at 8pm or 9pm before 11pm. This places more value on the function ... and likely ticks off OTA broadcasters more.


Let them get ticked - if they weren't shoving nearly 1/3 of the programming time with ads, it wouldn't be an issue.
IMO, anyway...
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#691 OFFLINE   Jaspear

Jaspear

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 469 posts
Joined: May 16, 2004

Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:05 AM

Let them get ticked - if they weren't shoving nearly 1/3 of the programming time with ads, it wouldn't be an issue.
IMO, anyway...


Yep, and they keep pushing the envelope. What was 45 minutes (or more) of programming is now 42 minutes (or less), obnoxious and distracting lower third graphics, over the top product placement with obvious, inane scripting, and on and on. The auto-hop feature ought to be instantaneous and expanded to more channels. The networks started it, not Dish.
"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven."

Jean Chrétien, Prime Minister of Canada, 1993 - 2003.

#692 OFFLINE   djlong

djlong

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,278 posts
  • LocationNew Hampshire
Joined: Jul 08, 2002

Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:06 AM

45 minutes? Heck, when I startd watching it was *51* minutes per hour (confirmed when I saw the running times of Star Trek episodes on VHS) and I distinctly remember there being a discussion from time to time of "how much is too much" with regards to commercials.

#693 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 20,424 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:10 AM

Bottom line, though... without those sold commercial spots, most of the TV shows people like wouldn't be produced... UNLESS we all paid $10-$15 per channel like for commercial-free networks like HBO...

Going back to the earliest days of TV, it was corporate sponsors that made broadcast TV possible.

-- !rotaredoM mA eM

What I do when I'm not here


#694 OFFLINE   Michael P

Michael P

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,971 posts
Joined: Oct 27, 2004

Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

Also, ESPN has done something kind of cool that I wish other networks and shows would try... If you watch Around the Horn or Pardon the Interruption... during their commercial breaks they throw in some behind the scenes clips and things that happen between takes... and if you skip commercials you miss those. I thought it was ingenious to throw in those things because I want to watch them, so I don't skip the commercials during those shows.

That explains what I saw during the RNC & DNC on FNC. When commercials were shown there was a PIP window with the live action at the podium. At the time I thought what's up with that? After reading this thread I now understand why that PIP window was used. (if someone else commented earlier I apologize - I skipped ahead 28 pages, this is the first day I paid attention to this thread).

#695 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 20,424 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

New thread and press release for a ruling in FOX vs Dish AutoHop... Closing this thread, please resume discussion in the new ongoing thread:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=210205

-- !rotaredoM mA eM

What I do when I'm not here





Protected By... spam firewall...And...