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Dish AutoHop vs Networks Commercial Skipping Discussion


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#126 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:13 PM

"with a beam of MAGIC light!"

I thought the first remotes used sound? (tuning forks or something)


The "Flash-Matic" in Mokanic's post was designed by the inventor of the remote, Eugene Polley who passed away yesterday at the age of 96. Polley's Flash-Matic projected a beam of light at photo cells located at the TV's corners. Each corner performed a different function (Channel change, picture on/off, sound on/off).
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#127 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:22 PM

Discovery is weak, more chest beating....:lol:
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#128 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:34 PM

The "Flash-Matic"


OK, shall we say the first TV remote that actually worked properly? And at relatively the same time, 1956.

Zenith Space Command. It was mechanical and used ultrasound to change the channel and volume. When the user pushed a button on the remote control, it clicked and struck a bar, hence the term "clicker". Each bar emitted a different frequency and circuits in the television detected this sound.

http://en.wikipedia..../Remote_control
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#129 OFFLINE   Mokanic

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:42 PM

The "Flash-Matic" in Mokanic's post was designed by the inventor of the remote, Eugene Polley who passed away yesterday at the age of 96. Polley's Flash-Matic projected a beam of light at photo cells located at the TV's corners. Each corner performed a different function (Channel change, picture on/off, sound on/off).


I saw the news report of his death on my local news and the irony of the ad copy was too much to pass up and not "share".

#130 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:58 PM

OK, shall we say the first TV remote that actually worked properly? And at relatively the same time, 1956.

Zenith Space Command. It was mechanical and used ultrasound to change the channel and volume. When the user pushed a button on the remote control, it clicked and struck a bar, hence the term "clicker". Each bar emitted a different frequency and circuits in the television detected this sound.

http://en.wikipedia..../Remote_control


Zenith Remotes: Lazy Bone (Wired) early 50s, Flash-Matic (Light Beam) 1955, Space Command (Ultrasonic) 1956.
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#131 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:12 PM

People need to look at the big picture rather and realise the impacts it will have though. If your contention is that people make more money and you don't think it's right then get over it because it's always going to happen and nothing you do will ever stop that.

Right now MMVPD's are trying to convince the powers that be that content providers pulling channels as the ultimate leverage is bad. The content providers now have the rallying cry of the MMVPD's are creating devices that will kill our revenue from ads.

Right now I'm sure litigators are determing what the best course of action is and I can tell you that if the big 4 decide that they can press the issue in court about a contract breach and pull their channels DISH will have happen to them what they did to VOOM. Even if they're found in err and have to pay fines DISH will never recover.

I think Charlie will change the time frame to be longer than what it is now to make them happy but still be able to advertise that you can skip commercials with the hopper.


For the record I think Chuck has been the only show where product placement worked out well enough to be noticed but not intrusive. Their commercials were good as well.

#132 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:13 PM

I can't find anything over there on Dish.


Here's the link to their discussion:

http://www.dslreport...xecs-Cry-119638

There is a comment most of the way down the page from someone that made me re-think this a little, like Charlie might have something up his sleeve.

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#133 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:24 PM

^^ Weird. I did a search for Dish, Hopper and a few other terms, but didn't get any reasonable hits.

Oh well.
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#134 OFFLINE   Darcaine

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 02:55 PM

People need to look at the big picture rather and realise the impacts it will have though. If your contention is that people make more money and you don't think it's right then get over it because it's always going to happen and nothing you do will ever stop that.

Right now MMVPD's are trying to convince the powers that be that content providers pulling channels as the ultimate leverage is bad. The content providers now have the rallying cry of the MMVPD's are creating devices that will kill our revenue from ads.

Right now I'm sure litigators are determing what the best course of action is and I can tell you that if the big 4 decide that they can press the issue in court about a contract breach and pull their channels DISH will have happen to them what they did to VOOM. Even if they're found in err and have to pay fines DISH will never recover.

I think Charlie will change the time frame to be longer than what it is now to make them happy but still be able to advertise that you can skip commercials with the hopper.


For the record I think Chuck has been the only show where product placement worked out well enough to be noticed but not intrusive. Their commercials were good as well.



Did we watch the same Chuck? The Subway product placements on that show were horrendous. In fact, Subway product placement has been terrible in every show they've added it to, even Community, naming one of it's characters Subway was ridiculous.

Edit: Looks like FOX is the first to get the lawsuit ball rolling. http://www.hollywood...ork-auto-329287

#135 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:29 PM

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DISH Looks for Ruling on Questions Related to Copyright, Compliance

ENGLEWOOD, CO -- (Marketwire) -- 05/24/12 -- DISH today filed suit against ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC in federal court for a declaratory judgment on questions that have arisen related to the pay-TV provider's May 10 introduction of a user-enabled commercial skipping technology called AutoHop. This feature is an advancement that is generating buzz and already seeing a groundswell of support from consumers.

Filed with the United States District Court, Southern District of New York, the suit asks for a declaratory judgment that the AutoHop feature does not infringe any copyrights that could be claimed by the major networks, and that DISH, while providing the AutoHop feature, remains in compliance with its agreements with the networks.

DISH's monthly subscriber fees include significant "retransmission fees" that DISH pays to the major networks. Although the broadcasters have made much of their content available for free using sites such as Hulu, they have continued to demand substantial increases in their retransmission fees.

"Consumers should be able to fairly choose for themselves what they do and do not want to watch," said David Shull, DISH senior vice president of Programming. "Viewers have been skipping commercials since the advent of the remote control; we are giving them a feature they want and that gives them more control."

"We don't believe AutoHop will substantially change established consumer behavior, but we do believe it makes the viewing experience better," said Shull.

In addition to increasing media reports of planned legal action against DISH, three of the networks -- CBS, Fox and NBC -- have rejected ads for DISH's Hopper Whole-Home DVR, the device that features the AutoHop function.

"We respect the business models that drive our industry, but we also embrace the evolving nature of technology and new ideas," said Shull. "Advances in the ability to measure and target viewership will give the entire industry -- including advertisers -- the ability to develop better programming, more effective advertising and deliver an overall better experience to the viewer."

About AutoHop
AutoHop is an extension of the Hopper's PrimeTime Anytime™ capability, the exclusive feature that allows viewers, with one click, to record all of the primetime TV programming on ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC in HD -- the networks that deliver some of the most popular shows during primetime.
Once the viewer enables the PrimeTime Anytime feature, the Hopper automatically stores these shows for eight days after they have aired, creating an on-demand library of approximately 100 hours of primetime TV shows, and making it easy to access episodes from last night, or last week. AutoHop, using patented technology, works with most shows recorded using PrimeTime Anytime (patent pending).

A viewer can watch a show with the AutoHop option commercial-free starting at 1 a.m. ET, after a show has been recorded to the Hopper's PrimeTime Anytime library. Prior to that, the Hopper's 30-second "hop forward" feature continues to work for same-day viewing.

About DISH
DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), through its subsidiary DISH Network L.L.C., provides approximately 14.071 million satellite TV customers, as of March 31, 2012, with the highest quality programming and technology with the most choices at the best value, including HD Free for Life. Subscribers enjoy the largest high definition lineup with more than 200 national HD channels, the most international channels, and award-winning HD and DVR technology. DISH Network Corporation's subsidiary, Blockbuster L.L.C., delivers family entertainment to millions of customers around the world. DISH Network Corporation is a Fortune 200 company. Visit www.dish.com.

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#136 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:37 PM

With this gaining more and more national attention, and the lawsuits, I have merged the thread from the Hopper/Joey forum with the one in the General Dish forum to keep this in one place since the issues have began to transcend just being a Hopper/Joey discussion.

Please keep discussion of Hopper/Joey issues with this feature itself to the Hopper/Joey support forum... but discussions about the AutoHop concept and network implications to this thread.

Thanks!

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#137 OFFLINE   Araxen

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:43 PM

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. There will not be any settlements and this case could very well go right up to the SCOTUS.
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#138 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:45 PM

this case could very well go right up to the SCOTUS.


Sorry to hear that. It will just be another 5-4 decision in favor of the networks.

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#139 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:48 PM

I do have to point out the irony that Dish introduces AutoHop feature, then networks decide not to accept commercial advertising money from Dish to promote their Hopper/Joey receivers.

So... on the one hand Dish argues "customers should be able to watch what they want, and they don't want to watch commercials"... but on the other hand Dish is paying money to get commercials airing that sell their products.

What customers does Dish think will be watching those commercials? I mean, if Dish wants to block commercials they seem to be saying customers don't watch them so why throw money in the garbage by paying for your own commercials?

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#140 OFFLINE   Grampa67

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:49 PM

Dish Sues Networks, Fox Sues Dish Over Ad-Skipping Auto Hop

http://tv.yahoo.com/...-211728859.html

#141 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:54 PM

Dish Sues Networks, Fox Sues Dish Over Ad-Skipping Auto Hop

http://tv.yahoo.com/...-211728859.html


I don't see this going well for consumers during the litigations.

#142 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:02 PM

I do have to point out the irony that Dish introduces AutoHop feature, then networks decide not to accept commercial advertising money from Dish to promote their Hopper/Joey receivers.

So... on the one hand Dish argues "customers should be able to watch what they want, and they don't want to watch commercials"... but on the other hand Dish is paying money to get commercials airing that sell their products.

What customers does Dish think will be watching those commercials? I mean, if Dish wants to block commercials they seem to be saying customers don't watch them so why throw money in the garbage by paying for your own commercials?

Only Dish customers with Hoppers can automatically skip commercials. What Dish wants is folks who are not currently Dish customers. They can't automatically skip commercials.;)

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#143 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:05 PM

Sorry to hear that. It will just be another 5-4 decision in favor of the networks.


Which could be several years down the road, with the only winners being the lawyers.
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#144 OFFLINE   lacruz

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:06 PM

Another Dish Lawsuit = Price Increases. The customer is always left paying Charlie's lawyers. The customers will be the losers here, regardless of the outcome, our rates will go up.

#145 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:07 PM

Only Dish customers with Hoppers can automatically skip commercials. What Dish wants is folks who are not currently Dish customers. They can't automatically skip commercials.;)


Exactly... thus the irony. Dish will have a hard time arguing that commercials have no value when they are themselves advertising... so they are kind of undercutting their own defense because the networks will claim Dish AutoHop eliminates commercials that their advertisers paid for assuming viewers would at least have a chance of watching.

Dish clearly recognizes value in advertising or they wouldn't be making commercials of their own and buying spots on networks. Would Dish pay as much for those spots if DirecTV and cable customers had their own "AutoHop" feature such that Dish commercials might never be seen?

The answer to that question will undercut Dish's stance on defending AutoHop.

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#146 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:08 PM

Did we watch the same Chuck? The Subway product placements on that show were horrendous. In fact, Subway product placement has been terrible in every show they've added it to, even Community, naming one of it's characters Subway was ridiculous.

Edit: Looks like FOX is the first to get the lawsuit ball rolling. http://www.hollywood...ork-auto-329287


While there were a few tmes it was over the top... it is a lot better then the Toyota ones on Bones.

Community by design is an over the top, and purposely does that... as does Pawn Stars (With Subway).
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#147 OFFLINE   djpadz

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:14 PM

Wasn't this battle already fought and lost over a decade ago with ReplayTV's commercial-skip feature?

#148 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:22 PM

Which could be several years down the road, with the only winners being the lawyers.

And the only real losers will be the subscribers.
There is no way the networks didn't know this was in the works. If one was a paranoid, conspiracy type you might deduct this is a capitalist plot to raise the price of programing.
The posturing is just that, the refusal to runs ads for Dish is stupid, revenue is revenue, these guys would take ads from the Devil if they thought they could pull if off. No this is about big money and Dish's stock was up today in a down Nasdaq market...this ain't no FB deal. What fun...!
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#149 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:47 PM

Dish will have a hard time arguing that commercials have no value when they are themselves advertising... so they are kind of undercutting their own defense because the networks will claim Dish AutoHop eliminates commercials that their advertisers paid for assuming viewers would at least have a chance of watching.


I don't see them saying they have no value, only that the viewer should be able to choose whether to watch them or not. I choose not to, even without a 'spensive 'Roo contraption.
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#150 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:00 PM

Wasn't this battle already fought and lost over a decade ago with ReplayTV's commercial-skip feature?



The lawsuit was dismissed due to the people who purchased replays assetts chose to not use that feature due to fear of damages. So while it was fought it was never finished.

I believe this may have been posted earlier;

http://tv.yahoo.com/...-200728242.html




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