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DirecTV National HD Listing/Maps Discussion Thread (Technical - Not Anticipation)


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#21 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:09 PM

Comcast (HITS) multiplexes their Distro feeds. http://www.comcastme...ts-quantum.html
They are only muxing 3 HD channels per transponder tho.


Yeah but that's in MPEG2. It's packaged for cable operators so all they need to do is pull that stream into a QAM for redistribution.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

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#22 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:23 PM

There seems to be a lot of nebulous generalizations flying around in support of DIRECTV's slow advance into six HD channels/transponder. Does anyone have a dollar (or Euro) figure?


I would imagine, that since there is only 2 DBS satellite providers, operating about 10 or so satellites between the two, that any equipment made specifically for their operations, is not a mass produced piece you can order at any online electronica outlet, but custom built, custom ordered to the exact specifications DirecTV needs. It is very possible that current equipment needs to be replaced, or re-customized to make this happen.

Of course no one has a dollar figure, since when do companies like DirecTV disclose what they pay for things? But you can bet that since it is all proprietary, custom built, it is going to be WAY beyond you might think it cost, and then double that. :P
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

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#23 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:24 PM

Some cables is going to MPEG4 and doing vivid attempts to get into cramming technology ...

#24 ONLINE   RAD

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:38 PM

Don't forget the rest of the world, there is more then just DIRECTV and Dish out there needing hardware like this.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#25 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:48 PM

Of course no one has a dollar figure, since when do companies like DirecTV disclose what they pay for things?

Disclosure would be the problem. Those that know the exact cost can't say. Those that have a better idea of such equipment understand how expensive such a device must be.

Don't forget the rest of the world, there is more then just DIRECTV and Dish out there needing hardware like this.

There are other countries using MPEG4 and HD but even worldwide I'd put DISH and DirecTV at the top of the need list. What other country has to deal with a thousand (more or less) HD local channels? Some day everything available in HD will be carried in HD. Getting there isn't cheap.

Alsp The entire world does not use the same standards for television or HD - which tends to separate the technology. What works there may not translate.

#26 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:52 PM

Don't forget the rest of the world, there is more then just DIRECTV and Dish out there needing hardware like this.


What makes you think European and Asian satellite broadcasters use an American manufacturer and not use a local one e.g. a German or Japanese manufacturer? They have a whole different history (PAL/NTSC, 50hz vz 60hz, etc), and it is very likely they too use very customized equipment that isn't the same between broadcasters there either.

It's not that simple.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#27 ONLINE   RAD

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:04 PM

What makes you think European and Asian satellite broadcasters use an American manufacturer and not use a local one e.g. a German or Japanese manufacturer? They have a whole different history (PAL/NTSC, 50hz vz 60hz, etc), and it is very likely they too use very customized equipment that isn't the same between broadcasters there either.

It's not that simple.


And what makes you think that DIRECTV isn't using hardware made overseas? How much hardware in the video industry is USA made anymore? Back in college, back in the 70's, broadcast cameras we used were made by RCA or GE. Now all you see are Sony or Panasonic, both made in countries that use a different standard. VTR's came from RCA or Ampex. IIRC hasn't Tandberg which is owned by a Ericsson of Sweden has sold MPEG4 encoders to DIRECTV.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#28 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:01 PM

Most likely they're moving to EN8190 encoders.

"Tandberg also introduced the EN8190 HD encoder, an MPEG-4 4:2:0 product aimed at direct-to-home (DTH) satellite applications as well as the IPTV market. Goldman says the EN8190 represents a 20-25% improvement in bit-rate efficiency over the company's previous MPEG-4 4:2:0 model, enough for a DTH operator to add one more HD channel per satellite transponder. Tandberg was demonstrating the EN8190 delivering six HD channels in 30 Mbps of bandwidth using its statistical multiplexing technology."

Edited by Sixto, 02 June 2012 - 10:12 PM.

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#29 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:14 PM

Most likely they're moving to EN8190 encoders.

"Tandberg also introduced the EN8190 HD encoder, an MPEG-4 4:2:0 product aimed at direct-to-home (DTH) satellite applications as well as the IPTV market. Goldman says the EN8190 represents a 20-25% improvement in bit-rate efficiency over the company's previous MPEG-4 4:2:0 model, enough for a DTH operator to add one more HD channel per satellite transponder. Tandberg was demonstrating the EN8190 delivering six HD channels in 30 Mbps of bandwidth using its statistical multiplexing technology."


SWEET! :D

#30 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:17 PM

SWEET! :D

Also to be clear, that quote was from late 2009, but after the D10/D11 buildouts, and probably also too late for D12.
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#31 OFFLINE   bobnielsen

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:01 PM

Also to be clear, that quote was from late 2009, but after the D10/D11 buildouts, and probably also too late for D12.


Since the encoders are installed at the uplink facilities, what does that have to to with the satellite transponders (possibly bandwidth/linearity?)

#32 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:06 PM

And looks like Tandberg is a part of Ericsson now ...

Edited by P Smith, 03 June 2012 - 10:19 AM.


#33 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:36 PM

http://www.satcomres...-Encoder-Module

Call for a price however without knowing all of the encoding licenses you'll only get a ballpark.

Here's more info on the encoder and Ericson/Tandberg.

http://www.pressrele...on-launches-ibc
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#34 OFFLINE   Racer88

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:52 PM

Since the encoders are installed at the uplink facilities, what does that have to to with the satellite transponders (possibly bandwidth/linearity?)


Yeah that kinda stumped me too. :confused: You guys certainly know a lot more about this than I do, but from skimming the technologies being talked about it seems to me more about increasing the efficiency and robustness of the datastreams being sent than anything else. IOW less bits and bytes used for error correction and such, means more room for bits and bytes that are actual content.

Anywho the encoders are available, and have been for ~3 years, obviously. In comibination with DVB-S2, which apparently DirecTV also has, it would seem 6 channels per TP are pretty much a done deal given the evidence that's already presented itself. Add in the Erricson PREKOR technology, no idea if DirecTV has that, then it's possibly up to 8 channels per TP even.

Edited by Racer88, 03 June 2012 - 12:17 AM.


#35 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 12:38 AM

Since the encoders are installed at the uplink facilities, what does that have to to with the satellite transponders (possibly bandwidth/linearity?)


I think the point was that they had bought the encoders for use with the new satelites before this new encoder was on the market, so that's why they didn't start off with these encoders, and instead will need to replace their existing encoders to upgrade. They would not have waited to launch channels to get new encoders.

#36 OFFLINE   Racer88

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 12:42 AM

Oh yeah, duh, that makes perfect sense now. hehe

Per this article
http://www.multichan...ic_Encoders.php

It would seem that maybe their long standing encoder provider Harmonic Inc. may be the best first place to look for whatever new solution it is that they are using.
http://www.harmonici...st-encoding.cfm

Their relatively new Electra 9000 supports broadcast, mobile, and web services so that seems to fit DirecTV Everywhere too.

Edited by Racer88, 03 June 2012 - 02:03 AM.


#37 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:41 AM

Here's an old thread which starts with an article on a $9M deal with Tandberg:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=142783


I'm also thinking that I may create a new thread for this discussion, since we don't usually use this thread for discussion.
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FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#38 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:52 AM

A place for discussion of the technical aspects from the DirecTV National HD Listings/Maps thread ....

From: http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=172899

Edited by Sixto, 03 June 2012 - 08:59 AM.

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#39 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:15 AM

Now that the clean-up is complete, and we're in this new thread.

The point of this discussion is that DirecTV has both Harmonic and Tandberg encoders.

Most of the technology (on the ground) was deployed prior to the launches of D10, D11, and D12.

There is now latest-and-greatest technology that provides for better use of the bandwidth. As an example, the Tandberg EN8190 encoders:

"Tandberg also introduced the EN8190 HD encoder, an MPEG-4 4:2:0 product aimed at direct-to-home (DTH) satellite applications as well as the IPTV market. Goldman says the EN8190 represents a 20-25% improvement in bit-rate efficiency over the company's previous MPEG-4 4:2:0 model, enough for a DTH operator to add one more HD channel per satellite transponder. Tandberg was demonstrating the EN8190 delivering six HD channels in 30 Mbps of bandwidth using its statistical multiplexing technology."


In order to utilize the new technology, it would require an investment, which it appears that DirecTV may be embarking on with the recent addition of TruTV HD and E! HD as a 6th HD channel on two transponders.
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#40 OFFLINE   bobnielsen

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:47 AM

It's been a while, but I recall seeing something about Directv already having 6 HD channels per transponder on some of the spotbeams (or does my memory fail me, which is certainly a possibility at my age?)




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