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DirecTV National HD Listing/Maps Discussion Thread (Technical - Not Anticipation)


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#551 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:06 AM

Well, looking at the map (not updated yet for this morning), the pattern that jumps out is that if there are two or more Cinema HD on a TP, that TP only has 4 channels on it, not 5.

Dunno if that's a recent phenomenon or not.


Would make sense as the Cinema channels are 1080p and would require more bandwidth.
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#552 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:33 AM

Would make sense as the Cinema channels are 1080p and would require more bandwidth.


Are they? I know internet downloads can be 1080p, but are the channels?
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#553 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

Are they? I know internet downloads can be 1080p, but are the channels?


As far as I know, yes. I don't use PPV much, but they show with a 1080p logo in my guide.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#554 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:58 AM

Would make sense as the Cinema channels are 1080p and would require more bandwidth.


I've always questioned though;

Unless the increase in bandwidth is due to far less compression being applied to the 1080p Cinema PPV programs in the 100-200 ch. # range.

All other things equal, 1080i sending 540 lines at 60 fields/s requires more bandwidth than 1080p at 24 frames/s. :confused:

#555 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:15 AM

I've always questioned though;

Unless the increase in bandwidth is due to far less compression being applied to the 1080p Cinema PPV programs in the 100-200 ch. # range.

All other things equal, 1080i sending 540 lines at 60 fields/s requires more bandwidth than 1080p at 24 frames/s. :confused:


Nope, there are no "lines", MPEG sending base pictures [I] and updates [P,B] to them in format 1920x1080[1088] pixels. No lines ! But FR is 30 FPS for whole picture combined from two and each has have of half of full scan (odd,even) as inheritance of old analog TV standard/equipment.

#556 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:52 AM

Nope, there are no "lines", MPEG sending base pictures [I] and updates [P,B] to them in format 1920x1080[1088] pixels. No lines ! But FR is 30 FPS for whole picture combined from two and each has have of half of full scan (odd,even) as inheritance of old analog TV standard/equipment.


Oh I didn't mean it was exactly conveyed in that way (line by line) in an encoded MPEG stream.

But from beginning to end 540 lines@60 fields/s from source to display must be sent for 1080i vs. 1080 lines@24 frames/s for 1080p regardless of the precise way its formated at some point in between.

#557 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:03 AM

Would make sense as the Cinema channels are 1080p and would require more bandwidth.


Are they? I know internet downloads can be 1080p, but are the channels?

I think the bandwidth between 1080i & 1080p/24 turns out to be about the same, due to the change in frame rate.
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#558 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:13 AM

I think the bandwidth between 1080i & 1080p/24 turns out to be about the same, due to the change in frame rate.


Exactly, 1080i/60 is 60 540x1920 fields per second, which the display deinterlaces to 30 1080x1920 fields per second. 1080p/24 is 24 1080x1920 fields per second, or actually slightly LESS data than 1080i/60.

Edited by Diana C, 27 September 2012 - 11:18 AM.
Fixed a typo

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#559 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:09 PM

I need to study this further ... they may have just moved the push to D10 ... now two transponders of push on D10.
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#560 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:53 PM

As far as I know, yes. I don't use PPV much, but they show with a 1080p logo in my guide.


Ah, you are correct. We sometimes watch PPV, but only the pre-downloads or internet downloads, never the PPV numbered channels. But now that you point it out to me, I see it in the guide that way as well. Tho as Titan25 points out, if it is 1080p24, then it is actually somewhat less bandwidth than 1080i, all things being equal (i.e. compressability and encoder efficiency for the content).

Edited by georule, 27 September 2012 - 06:00 PM.

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#561 OFFLINE   woj027

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:41 AM

It looks like they continue to lighten the load on D10.

I hope things are ok on D10. Great to see D12 can carry the load though.

#562 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:48 AM

I am interested to see if they have moved any more transponders to six channels with all these moves.

I also wonder if this should be a clearing to prepare for that. Either way, its always fun to speculate!

#563 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:54 AM

I am interested to see if they have moved any more transponders to six channels with all these moves.

I also wonder if this should be a clearing to prepare for that. Either way, its always fun to speculate!


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#564 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:10 AM

Looks like 306 --> 340 move makes up space for iON West to go to 306.
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#565 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:20 AM

Looks like 306 --> 340 move makes up space for iON West to go to 306.


It did;

ION west is on channel 306 now.

But still in SD of course ... meh :(

#566 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:12 AM

Smithsonian is a 1070 now? Are there 7 HD channels on that tp now? Or is it 1 SD + 6 HD or 2 SD + 5 HD (or any other combination) ?

Science Sho Extra and Starz now are 6th channels it looks like. Some good reorg going on.

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#567 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:11 PM

Smithsonian is a 1070 now? Are there 7 HD channels on that tp now? Or is it 1 SD + 6 HD or 2 SD + 5 HD (or any other combination) ?

Science Sho Extra and Starz now are 6th channels it looks like. Some good reorg going on.


There is planned go for 1080 ... just wait and see when it happen.

#568 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:29 PM

There is planned go for 1080 ... just wait and see when it happen.


Since they're already doing as many as 9 channels on Ka spotbeams today, I have no doubt. :)

#569 OFFLINE   Barcthespark

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:49 PM

Glad to see AXS remained in my Favorites List as it moved from 306 to 340. Also glad to see my upcoming recordings on AXS are still in the queue. :)

#570 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:02 PM

Since they're already doing as many as 9 channels on Ka spotbeams today, I have no doubt. :)


OTOH, P. Smith;

After some thought, if the Ka CONUS channels must use only QPSK modulation for greater signal robustness due to their lower PFD, and the Ka spotbeams that have as many as 9 channels mainly accomplish this by using using 8-PSK (so "more bits per baud") permitted by their higher PFD, maybe we won't see anymore than 6 channels per transponder for the CONUS beam channels at least.

#571 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:07 PM

There is no doubts to see not in distance future more and more channels per one transponder using more compression of each without changing modulation and FEC.

#572 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:17 PM

OTOH, P. Smith;

After some thought, if the Ka CONUS channels must use only QPSK modulation for greater signal robustness due to their lower PFD, and the Ka spotbeams that have as many as 9 channels mainly accomplish this by using using 8-PSK (so "more bits per baud") permitted by their higher PFD, maybe we won't see anymore than 6 channels per transponder for the CONUS beam channels at least.


That's what I thought too. Always wanted them to try 8-psk on Ka conus, but then I'm reminded how that may not be a good idea when it storms bad and I have rain fade.

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#573 OFFLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:22 PM

OTOH, P. Smith;

After some thought, if the Ka CONUS channels must use only QPSK modulation for greater signal robustness due to their lower PFD, and the Ka spotbeams that have as many as 9 channels mainly accomplish this by using using 8-PSK (so "more bits per baud") permitted by their higher PFD, maybe we won't see anymore than 6 channels per transponder for the CONUS beam channels at least.


Actually, P. Smith posted that Portland's 9 locals from one tpn are using the same modulation as CONUS, just using a different FEC.

QPSK 4/5 for spot vs. QPSK 2/3 for CONUS.

Perhaps it may be possible to reduce the FEC a little to gain bit rate on CONUS beams?

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#574 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:33 AM

What if they moved all the Ku stuff to 8-PSK?

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#575 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:49 AM

Actually, P. Smith posted that Portland's 9 locals from one tpn are using the same modulation as CONUS, just using a different FEC.

QPSK 4/5 for spot vs. QPSK 2/3 for CONUS.

Perhaps it may be possible to reduce the FEC a little to gain bit rate on CONUS beams?


Correct;

Forgot about P Smith's SA settings on that image he posted at the time.

http://www.dbstalk.c...94&d=1346434765

But, same problem as with a higher modulation level, don't know if a reduced code rate like that would work for the CONUS channels due to their beam's lower PDF.




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