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DirecTV National HD Listing/Maps Discussion Thread (Technical - Not Anticipation)


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#581 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

4K TV will require a lot of data.


Yes it will. But the trials that have been done in Londen with the Olympics and in Japan aren't compressed as good as they can be. 4k resolution in essence is the same is 4 screens of 1920x1080 combined, so in theory is MPEG4 is used, a 4k channel could be configured to be more or less the same as the current usage of 4 HD channels, which with new satellites with increased capacity is something that can be overcome.

Also, I would imagine that with new technologies being released over the next 3-5 years (realistically, I don't see the launch of 4k channels to be somewhere after 2016) the compression without visible loss of quality might be increased a little more to the extend that a CURRENT transponder, capable of doing 6 HD, or maybe even 7 HD, will be able to handle 2 4KHD channels without loss of quality.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

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#582 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:08 PM

Back to the current shuffling..... Sixto, what do you make of all this? Are they just throwing stuff around to re-organize things, or are they shuffling in such a way it will create some new bandwidth for new channels OR other uses such as bandwidth used for push, etc?
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#583 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:12 PM

Have figured that they're implementing new encoders, learning, re-balancing, learning, re-balancing ... tweaking ... and at the end of the day a better optimized infrastructure with open bandwidth for new stuff.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#584 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

I suppose if they have quarterly engineering budgets they keep rolling out the infrastructure upgrades and optimizing delivery for it even if programming doesn't have any specific use for the increased capacity right at the moment. . . if it doesn't get used in at least a mid-term fashion, it may be a sign they've run out of those "pocket rights" I've theorized they have had at least some of and were waiting for this infrastructure upgrade to put into use.

Edited by georule, 16 October 2012 - 03:33 PM.

LR(non-CE): HR44, Mits 65C9; Office/FR (CE): HR22-100 + AM21, Mits 60737 + Mits 3DA1 3D adapter. Spare bedroom (non-CE), HR23. Genie WHDVR, wireless networking (yay!)

#585 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:23 PM

I suppose if they have quarterly engineering budgets they keep rolling out the infrastructure upgrades and optimizing delivery for it even if programming doesn't have any specific use for the increased capacity right at the moment. . . if it doesn't get used in at least a mid-term fashion, it may be a sign they've run out of those "pocket rights" I've theorized they have had at least some of and were waiting for this infrastructure upgrade to put into use.


I would expect them to at least fill every spot they have available with ppv if they didn't have a channel ready to go yet. I don't see that really costing them anything to do, but could potentially bring in more money.

#586 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:10 PM

I would expect them to at least fill every spot they have available with ppv if they didn't have a channel ready to go yet. I don't see that really costing them anything to do, but could potentially bring in more money.


well there are the sports channels and RSN that directv wants to add but is waiting for a good price for them.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#587 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:03 PM

There are a few movements into 1070's today. Could it be 7 HD's on a transponder for some?

504 HBOwHD FT D12 14 1070
509 HBOZHD FT D12 17 1070
676 FSSWHD FT D12 18 1070

New 1060's
299 NIKeHD FT D12 21 1060
522 TMAXHD FT D12 17 1060
693 PTHD FT D12 15 1060



The premiums compress well. HBO/Max/Showtime/Starz etc have always pushed compression to the max while doing a pretty good job at maintaining quality. I have no doubt these premiums would fit nicely in a 7 pack. FSSWHD is 720p correct? I have no doubt that the right combination of 720p networks could fit in a 7 pack either.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#588 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:34 AM

There are a few movements into 1070's today. Could it be 7 HD's on a transponder for some?

504 HBOwHD FT D12 14 1070
509 HBOZHD FT D12 17 1070
676 FSSWHD FT D12 18 1070

New 1060's
299 NIKeHD FT D12 21 1060
522 TMAXHD FT D12 17 1060
693 PTHD FT D12 15 1060



The premiums compress well. HBO/Max/Showtime/Starz etc have always pushed compression to the max while doing a pretty good job at maintaining quality. I have no doubt these premiums would fit nicely in a 7 pack. FSSWHD is 720p correct? I have no doubt that the right combination of 720p networks could fit in a 7 pack either.


Just checked the latest TPN map release;

Only D12 (103ca) has 1070 #PIDs for CONUS beams on transponders 12, 13, 14, 17, and 18.

Tpn. 17 has seven 1080i HD channels

Channel Name|CH. Number|VPID
ShWmHD |552|1010
STZKHD|525|1020
HBSeHD|503|1030
SHNXHD|551|1040
MGMHD|562|1050
TMAXHD|522|1060
HBOZHD|509|1070


The others all have 6 HD channels plus one MPEG-4 SD one.

So if the TPN map is accurate, I guess they've broken the 6 HD level for CONUS channels and with all 1080i ones to boot.

If only for one transponder so far.

#589 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:06 AM

Since those are all 24FPS movie channels maybe that's how they can do 7 on a single TP?

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#590 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:39 AM

Those channels do compress well. Blue Ridge Cable is getting like 6-8 mbps on the premium multiplex hd's (like HBO2 HD, HBO Signature HD, etc..) Thats MPEG2 on switched digital video. Imagine if they went to MPEG4.

Even back in the day when HD on cable was only paired 2 to a QAM for 19.2 mbps rate, I was pulling 12-15 mbps for Showtime. Much less than the 19.2mbps allocated. For MPEG2 those channels always took a little less than others. So again in the MPEG4 world where the compression is even better, I wouldn't doubt 7 1080i's on one transponder.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#591 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:04 AM

Those channels do compress well. Blue Ridge Cable is getting like 6-8 mbps on the premium multiplex hd's (like HBO2 HD, HBO Signature HD, etc..) Thats MPEG2 on switched digital video. Imagine if they went to MPEG4.

Even back in the day when HD on cable was only paired 2 to a QAM for 19.2 mbps rate, I was pulling 12-15 mbps for Showtime. Much less than the 19.2mbps allocated. For MPEG2 those channels always took a little less than others. So again in the MPEG4 world where the compression is even better, I wouldn't doubt 7 1080i's on one transponder.


Possible;

In fact I'd say its most likely what you say;

Though I would like to wait for P. Smith to chime in here with the current code rate for D12's CONUS transponder 17 to see if its still the same standard 2/3 rate for the CONUS beam channels to know for sure.

#592 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:13 AM

I'll check later the D12 tp17, but I did mention: planned capacity is 8 HD channels per Ka tpn according PID assignment.

#593 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:21 AM

I'll check later the D12 tp17, but I did mention: planned capacity is 8 HD channels per Ka tpn according PID assignment.


Right, that is PID assignment, but what is the bandwidth?

No saying they won't do 7 HD's + 1 SD. Or 6 HD's + 2 SD... or any other combination.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#594 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:08 AM

Right, that is PID assignment, but what is the bandwidth?

No saying they won't do 7 HD's + 1 SD. Or 6 HD's + 2 SD... or any other combination.


The bandwidth is always the same;

36 MHz wide transponders on the Ka band birds, which allow for a SR of ~30 MegaBaud. This results in data throughput of ~39 mb/s (QPSK and a 2/3 code rate).

You may play with the numbers from the basic fomula here;

http://www.dbstalk.c...11&d=1327482283

The thing is you have to increase compression to maintain the same throughput rate when adding additional channels.

If DIRECTV does not increase compression, then they must increase throughput by going to a higher modulation level and/or a reduced code rate.

Both of which mean higher PFDs are needed. .

Edited by HoTat2, 18 October 2012 - 12:05 PM.


#595 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:37 PM

Just checked the latest TPN map release;

Only D12 (103ca) has 1070 #PIDs for CONUS beams on transponders 12, 13, 14, 17, and 18.

Tpn. 17 has seven 1080i HD channels

Channel Name|CH. Number|VPID
ShWmHD |552|1010
STZKHD|525|1020
HBSeHD|503|1030
SHNXHD|551|1040
MGMHD|562|1050
TMAXHD|522|1060
HBOZHD|509|1070


The others all have 6 HD channels plus one MPEG-4 SD one.

So if the TPN map is accurate, I guess they've broken the 6 HD level for CONUS channels and with all 1080i ones to boot.

If only for one transponder so far.


Interesting. Yes, I was going to ask if all of them had an mpeg4 SD.

So 7 HD on one TP. I wonder if that's at least as much for testing/experience purposes as anything? It wouldn't seem like they have a functional need to be that aggressive right now with so many more TP with new encoders still to roll out.
LR(non-CE): HR44, Mits 65C9; Office/FR (CE): HR22-100 + AM21, Mits 60737 + Mits 3DA1 3D adapter. Spare bedroom (non-CE), HR23. Genie WHDVR, wireless networking (yay!)

#596 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

Well I checked all these channels:
ShWmHD 552 1010
STZKHD 525 1020
HBSeHD 503 1030
SHNXHD 551 1040
MGMHD 562 1050
TMAXHD 522 1060
HBOZHD 509 1070


They all look fine to me. I'm not sitting inches from the screen. At normal viewing distances the HD clarity looks great.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#597 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:16 AM

Been posting in the gct thread, but I'm starting to think that something is going on with D10.

I don't have the redirection flag fix in place yet, so thus been looking more at the spreadsheet and D10 certainly looks to be getting emptied, unless the data is not all there.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#598 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:22 AM

Been posting in the gct thread, but I'm starting to think that something is going on with D10.

I don't have the redirection flag fix in place yet, so thus been looking more at the spreadsheet and D10 certainly looks to be getting emptied, unless the data is not all there.


That doesn't appers to bode well then for much more, if any, HD until D14 goes up. Wonder if D10's problems are really that bad?

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#599 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:24 AM

Hmmm. Could D10 be slowly dying?

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#600 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:29 AM

That doesn't appers to bode well then for much more, if any, HD until D14 goes up. Wonder if D10's problems are really that bad?

Yep, I'm starting to wonder if D10 finally is getting worse, or if they're just planning for worst case. Or it could simply be that they're upgrading encoders and it's just a coincidence.

I have one bug in my data which I haven't fixed yet, this redirection flag issue, which causes my data to sometimes have D10 and D11 swapped.

It hasn't been that big a deal to rush to fix because I was mostly concerned with looking daily for new HD channels, and we have gct spreadsheet weekly as our reference document.

But now that they're moving channels almost daily I really need to get to the bottom of this, because gct's latest spreadsheet which has the redirection fix in place, shows almost everything important now off of D10.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)




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