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DirecTV National HD Listing/Maps Discussion Thread (Technical - Not Anticipation)


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#101 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:52 PM

That's right - there are many combinations of modulation and FEC for the mentioned tpns. I'm not thinking, :) just reading lines on a palm of the system, ie. system tables.

Edited by P Smith, 05 June 2012 - 06:08 PM.


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#102 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:55 PM

That's right - there are many combinations of modulation and FEC for the mentioned tpns. I'm not thinking, :) just reading lines on a palm of the system, ie. system tables.

Of the types listed QPSK 3/5 35 Mbps, QPSK 2/3 39 Mbps, QPSK 4/5 47 Mbps, 8PSK 3/5 52 Mbps ... how many are you seeing, and what's the majority if there is one?

Just D10 TP1-14, D11 TP1-14, D12 TP11-19.
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#103 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:40 PM

Check PM.

Thank you.
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#104 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:59 PM

Check PM.


Thank you.

Thanks again P.

Looked through the great data you provided ... D10 (1-14), D11 (1-14) and D12 (9-24) all show QPSK 2/3 39Mbps.
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#105 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:03 PM

AMC looks softer than most other HD broadcasts. Can all be better? Sure.

Right now on NBC, which usually has a very good HD broadcast, the picture is extremely soft- as they're showing a feed from the UK- some Jubilee stuff- obviously very compressed somewhere along the line, though it is their own feed.


The first several weeks (few months?) of AMCHD on D* wasn't just soft --it was jerky/artifacty. Badly. Somebody moved their head too fast and it did it. Elevator door closings (common on Mad Men) were a total stutter-fest.
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#106 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:13 PM

It was my impression that the MPEG4 decoding is all done in hardware. That the older MPEG2 was also decoded in hardware.

These DVRS used by either service do not have the CPU power to decode in software. I have a I3 based computer that can barely handle 1080i.

The Processors in the DVRs only have to handle things like the timers, Remote keypress, and the guide (DVR content) and then hand it off to the proper hardware to do the actual functions.


Hardware acceleration still has to have a software layer and available memory to access it, and optimizing that software layer can still provide gains in efficiency or performance. What I'm not sure of, is whether these new efficiencies provided by the 8190 at the encode end imply new load on the decode end. Maybe, maybe not. The engineering document linked upstream certainly does not state or imply that it would, and it appears to have been written more from an engineering perspective than a marketing perspective, so I'd think it'd have gotten mentioned if it did. Which is a long way of saying, I'm starting to back-off on that point. :D

A general purpose CPU is hardware acceleration too. . . it just doesn't do the stuff you want it to do in this case as fast as special purpose hardware can do it. But even that is changing as "general purpose" CPU manufacturers are incorporating more and more video function-specific blocks of hardware inside their general purpose CPUs.

Edited by georule, 05 June 2012 - 02:22 PM.

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#107 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:20 PM

Thanks again P.

Looked through the great data you provided ... D10 (1-14), D11 (1-14) and D12 (9-24) all show QPSK 2/3 39Mbps.


I thought 8-PSK modulation were only used on the Ka-band spotbeams for now at least?

Because their higher PFD beam footprint compensates for the loss in signal robustness by going to a higher level modulation.

Ka CONUS beams still all use QPSK though due to their lower PFD footprint.

#108 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:58 PM

I recall the modes changing from time to time.
There are hundreds lines (tpns) in system table ... I'll check June's version soon.

EDIT. Current tables does show same parameters for these tpns: DVB-S2 QPSK 30000 2/3

Edited by P Smith, 05 June 2012 - 03:56 PM.


#109 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 05:45 PM

Wow 39mbps that's it? Very close to Cable's 38.8 Mbps. So when cable goes MPEG4 they should get 5 to 6 channels a QAM. Looks like Verizon Fios added 10 new Spanish HD channels but only uses 12Mhz (2 QAM channels) to do so. Cablevision and Blue Ridge Cable have been squeezing some 4 MPEG2 HD's in 38mbps and Comcast, TWC, Service Electric and others have only gone as far as 3 HD's per 38mbps.

Point is 6 at MPEG4 should be easy at that rate. I wouldn't be surprised if 7 HD's could fit if they were all 720p. Or maybe 6HD + 1 SD since they like to overcompress SD anyway.

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My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Ovation, Reelz , Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

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#110 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 06:04 PM

If it will be 1024QAM, then the bitrate will go much higher.

#111 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:08 PM

So should I put my Festivus pole back in the storage shed?


This was a test setup not a prep for launch. If there were that many channels coming you would have heard something by now. That's not to say some things aren't in the works though.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#112 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:22 PM

How many channels could be squeezed into one transponder.

#113 OFFLINE   adkinsjm

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 05:06 AM

How many channels could be squeezed into one transponder.


Five to six to keep the same quality as is being shown.

#114 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 07:43 AM

Some rearranging:

http://www.dbstalk.c...313#post3030313


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#115 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:04 AM

Wow, it's more then re-arranging. They filled up D12 TP9 & TP10!
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#116 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:29 AM

Much movement ... I need to analyze this ... seems like a couple of more 6th HD to free up space elsewhere.

All discussion here: http://www.dbstalk.c...314#post3030314

[U][B]SIGNIFICANT[/B] Changes: NEW (added/moved) from [B]2012-06-06[/B] compared to 2012-06-05:[/U]
  106 ESPN3D  FT D10  3 1020  <------  106 ESPN3D  FT D12 13 1020
  107 ------- FT D10  3 1040  <------  107 ------- FT D12 17 1020
  212 NFLHD   FT D12  9 1040  <------  212 NFLHD   FT D10  3 1040
  229 HGTVHD  FT D12 13 1050  <------  229 HGTVHD  FT D10 12 1040
  231 foodHD  FT D12 10 1040  <------  231 foodHD  FT D10 11 1040
  237 BRVOHD  FT D12 10 1020  <------  237 BRVOHD  FT D10 11 1020
  241 ------- FT D12 18 1010  <------  241 ------- FT D10 12 1010
  244 SyfyHD  FT D12 10 1050  <------  244 SyfyHD  FT D10 13 1050
  248 FXHD    FT D12 10 1030  <------  248 FXHD    FT D10 12 1030
  249 COMHD   FT D12 13 1070  <------  249 COMHD   FT D10 12 1020
  252 LIFEHD  FT D12  9 1060  <------  252 LIFEHD  FT D11 11 1050
  269 HISTHD  FT D12  9 1020  <------  269 HISTHD  FT D10 13 1010
  278 DSCHD   FT D12 10 1010  <------  278 DSCHD   FT D10 11 1010
  280 TLCHD   FT D12 10 1060  <------  280 TLCHD   FT D10 12 1050
  290 ------- FT D12  9 1010  <------  290 ------- FT D10  3 1010
  355 CNBCHD  FT D12 17 1020  <------  355 CNBCHD  FT D10 11 1030
  505 HB2wHD  FT D10  6 1050  <------  505 HB2wHD  FT D12 13 1050
  515 MAXeHD  FT D12  9 1050  <------  515 MAXeHD  FT D10  3 1050
  527 STZeHD  FT D12  9 1030  <------  527 STZeHD  FT D10  9 1050
  642 CSNHD   FT D12 13 1020  <------  642 CSNHD   FT D10  3 1020

[U][B]SIGNIFICANT[/B] Changes: OLD (removed) from 2012-06-05 compared to [B]2012-06-06[/B]:[/U]
 NONE

[U]Part-time Changes: NEW (added/moved) from [B]2012-06-06[/B] compared to 2012-06-05:[/U]
 NONE

[U]Part-time Changes: OLD (removed) from 2012-06-05 compared to [B]2012-06-06[/B]:[/U]
 NONE
 
[U]Legend:[/U]
1st column is the channel number
2nd column is the channel name, an '*' prior to the name designates a TEST channel
3rd column is FT for Full-Time, PT for Part-time, RM for Remapped from another channel
4th column is the Satellite, 5th column is the transponder number
6th column is 'slot' number with 10xx: active/online, 1700: offline, 0000: unassigned


Wow, it's more then re-arranging. They filled up D12 TP9 & TP10!

They did much.

They filled up D12 transponders 9 & 10. These were the two transponders that were in test last week. Well, we now know why. They filled them up.

They added a 6th HD to D12 TP13.

They used that n3D slot on D12 Tp10.

And most of everything came from D10. (There was that propulsion issue with D10.
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#117 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:24 AM

The more I analyze this ...

They freed up D10 transponders 11 & 12, and parts of 3 & 13.

Very interesting.

Assuming that there's no issue with D10, this is very good news.

Lots of free space now, assuming that they use it for mainstream HD, and there's no issue with D10.

Edited by Sixto, 06 June 2012 - 09:39 AM.

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#118 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:42 AM

I have a feeling of 'deja vu' ... same movements (cramp more channels) as dish did a few years ago. If you remember DishLite campaign...
It could happen invisible to all of us, just unfortunate for these 'conspirators' - the site's activists bringing 'secrets' to public eyes. I'm pretty sure - regular consumers (99.75%) wouldn't notice the changes and 100% would just don't care. If I'm correct then it would explain why DTV gave us no official statement of the serious changes.

#119 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:44 AM

I have a feeling of 'deja vu' ... same movements (cramp more channels) as dish did a few years ago. If you remember DishLite campaign...
It could happen invisible to all of us, just unfortunate for these 'conspirators' - the site's activists bringing 'secrets' to public eyes. I'm pretty sure - regular consumers (99.75%) wouldn't notice the changes and 100% would just don't care. If I'm correct then it would explain why DTV gave us no official statement of the serious changes.

Or they may really have upgraded technology with no noticeable change in quality.
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#120 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:00 AM

If it's true there should be public statement - it would be positive moment for an image the company.




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