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DirecTV National HD Listing/Maps Discussion Thread (Technical - Not Anticipation)


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#126 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:35 PM

Very interesting indeed. The only thing I worry about is that they long ago said that they may have toss d10 early. So the question could be made is this move to eliminated some of its workload for power or other reasons. Hopefully it's just prep work. Do we know if d10 and d12 get their channels from the same earth stations?

Hopefully this is prep for all the encore and other rainbow media channels, and way early work in anticipation of all the new RSNs coming online in the next 9 months.

Yep, same thoughts here. Not sure if this is great news, or something with D10.

They may have upgraded D12 TP9 and TP10 first and just decided to pick D10 channels, or maybe there's more to it relative to the D10 issues. It's hard to tell until we see what they do with the D10 opened slots, if anything.
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#127 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:36 PM

I'm lost. So when we get new HD they'll put it on D10 instead of D12? :confused:

Those are the slots that they freed up.
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#128 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:38 PM

I hope to god they're not going "HD Lite"

All indications are that there will be no noticeable difference. But people are free to check right now, there's 5 transponders with 6 now as of today.
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#129 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:46 PM

There's actually now one with 6 HD and 1 SD.

Here you go :
D11  3 FT  246 ------- 1060
D11  3 FT  397 ABCwHD  1030
D11  3 FT  549 EXTRHD  1040
D11  3 FT  649 SPSOHD  1050
D11  3 FT  681 ALTHD   1010
D11  3 FT  686 FSAZHD  1020

D12  9 FT  212 NFLHD   1040
D12  9 FT  252 LIFEHD  1060
D12  9 FT  269 HISTHD  1020
D12  9 FT  290 ------- 1010
D12  9 FT  515 MAXeHD  1050
D12  9 FT  527 STZeHD  1030

D12 10 FT  231 foodHD  1040
D12 10 FT  237 BRVOHD  1020
D12 10 FT  244 SyfyHD  1050
D12 10 FT  248 FXHD    1030
D12 10 FT  278 DSCHD   1010
D12 10 FT  280 TLCHD   1060

D12 13 FT  208 ESPNUHD 1030
D12 13 FT  229 HGTVHD  1050
D12 13 FT  249 COMHD   1070
D12 13 FT  365 GTV     1060
D12 13 FT  502 HB2eHD  1040
D12 13 FT  511 HBOLHD  1010
D12 13 FT  642 CSNHD   1020

D12 15 FT  236 E!HD    1060
D12 15 FT  254 AMCHD   1030
D12 15 FT  307 WGNHD   1020
D12 15 FT  521 WMAXHD  1050
D12 15 FT  548 SHO3HD  1010
D12 15 FT  619 FSCHD   1040

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#130 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:06 PM

I hope to god they're not going "HD Lite"


You keep posting how paranoid you are about this PQ and experts repeatedly tell you it's not worse and there's even examples - put away your tinfoil hat. ;)

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#131 ONLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:09 PM

One thing I've always wondered. When they move a channel to another satellite, if someone happens to be watching that channel, do they actually see anything on screen like a Searching for satellite error or a sort of blip?

#132 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:12 PM

One thing I've always wondered. When they move a channel to another satellite, if someone happens to be watching that channel, do they actually see anything on screen like a Searching for satellite error or a sort of blip?

I would guess that you would see the change, but I've never been watching it at 6am ET when most of the changes happen.
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#133 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:29 PM

Do we have any reason to think D12 is better suited in some fashion for the hypothetical new encoders? If not, this looks more ominous than happy-making to me. . . like a risk management thing.
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#134 ONLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:44 PM

I would guess that you would see the change, but I've never been watching it at 6am ET when most of the changes happen.


Looks like my question was answered, I just hadn't seen the thread. Someone was watching CNBC during the switch.

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#135 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:00 PM

Do we have any reason to think D12 is better suited in some fashion for the hypothetical new encoders? If not, this looks more ominous than happy-making to me. . . like a risk management thing.

The reality of the situation is that we just don't know, and there are many possibilities.

It's quite possible that certain channels may be a better fit to be combined with the new encoders and this was one of maybe many steps to re-arrange things.

They didn't just move every channel from one transponder to another. When you study line-for-line what they did, it appears that they carefully moved channels around to different spots.

Also, maybe it was easier to start with D12, especially D12 transponders 9 & 10 because they weren't being used before. Maybe you first light up two new transponders with new encoders, and then slowly start moving stuff week-by-week, every Wednesday.

We'll see.

Personally I'm excited to see the activity. It's crystal clear evidence of a move to 6 channels per transponders.

Now we just need to see how this plays out.
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#136 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:01 PM

Sixto, what are the channels with the dashes in the name?

D12 13 has 7 channels on it, though one is in SD. That's cool they can do that. I'm all for efficiency and better use of very valuable, finite spectrum.

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#137 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:03 PM

Sixto, what are the channels with the dashes in the name?

D12 13 has 7 channels on it, though one is in SD. That's cool they can do that. I'm all for efficiency and better use of very valuable, finite spectrum.

246 is TruTV, 290 is Disney.

My tools are not nearly as sophisticated as what P. and gct use, but it gets the job done mostly.
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#138 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:17 PM

The reality of the situation is that we just don't know, and there are many possibilities.

It's quite possible that certain channels may be a better fit to be combined with the new encoders and this was one of maybe many steps to re-arrange things.

They didn't just move every channel from one transponder to another. When you study line-for-line what they did, it appears that they carefully moved channels around to different spots.

Also, maybe it was easier to start with D12, especially D12 transponders 9 & 10 because they weren't being used before. Maybe you first light up two new transponders with new encoders, and then slowly start moving stuff week-by-week, every Wednesday.

We'll see.

Personally I'm excited to see the activity. It's crystal clear evidence of a move to 6 channels per transponders.

Now we just need to see how this plays out.


Reasonable points as well. As you say, we probably won't have to wait too long to get a better feel for what is going on.

The engineering .pdf on those Ericsson 8190s did in fact call out what kind of content was best suited to take advantage of the bandwidth efficiency improvements at the same level of PQ, so a shuffling of channels to create the optimum match of content is an entirely reasonable thing to be seeing. And not just for these channels and transponders, but with an eye towards converting further transponders down the road.
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#139 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:53 PM

The reality of the situation is that we just don't know, and there are many possibilities.

...

Also, maybe it was easier to start with D12, especially D12 transponders 9 & 10 because they weren't being used before. Maybe you first light up two new transponders with new encoders, and then slowly start moving stuff week-by-week, every Wednesday.


That would have been my guess.

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#140 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:57 PM

If it's true there should be public statement - it would be positive moment for an image the company.


The real public statement would be (if this is not a fix for a problem) that they add a bunch of new HD.

Only geeks like us care about encoding and the number of channels per transponder.
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#141 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:24 PM

The main public statement I want to see in the near future is the re-loading of those D10 transponders at 6 per. Then I'll be ready to pop the champagne corks.
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#142 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:29 PM

Eh, it just occurred to me that if I go to my dark place, that even re-loading the empty D10 transponders at 6 per could, theoretically, just be a way point on the way to reloading D11 and D12 at 6 per, so as to maximize the empty space (and therefore minimize risk) on D10.

But I don't really believe it. If they reload those D10 transponders at 6 per, I'm breaking out the single malt.
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#143 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:36 PM

One thing I've always wondered. When they move a channel to another satellite, if someone happens to be watching that channel, do they actually see anything on screen like a Searching for satellite error or a sort of blip?


No SFSS but if it wasn't being recorded the buffer is dumped. Much like the ending of NFL games and the transponders are swapped to another game.

#144 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:48 PM

There's actually now one with 6 HD and 1 SD.


Would it be worth noting that on the transponder with 6 HD and 1 SD, that ESPN-U is a 720p channel? Perhaps that uses a little bit less bandwidth then 1080i, and thus leaves a little room, enough for 1 SD?
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#145 OFFLINE   Racer88

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:54 PM

I think it's kinda obvious this has been the plan all along. Especially given the huge gap between the launch of D12 and D14. They knew this advancement in encoder tech was in the pipe 3 or more years ago and this would allow them to keep growing their HD lineup without having to put up another bird right away.

Next move is pretty obvioulsly to move another large block of channels onto the vacated D10 TP's. Wash, rinse, repeat, until they change all the ones they intend to change. Going to be interesting to see how it all plays out for sure. At 2 TP's a week we've got many weeks to go if they end loading every TP with 6 channels each.

#146 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:30 PM

Since that one transponder is working with 6HD and 1SD, Id *really* like it if they started adding one popular, but not carried in HD yet, channel to the mpeg4 format, so at least watching them wouldnt be so tedious on the eyes.

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#147 ONLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:17 AM

What, carry it in both formats? Otherwise a lot of customers would lose it altogether.

#148 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:35 AM

So the only thing I really noticed with 6HD+1SD in one tp compression was on Ch 642 CSNHD. There was a Nascar event and some of the scenes with camera flashes did cause some macro-blocking and mosquito noise in the picture. HOWEVER, I would see that all the time anyway during awards shows or live performances on the major networks, even in MPEG2 on cable (CBS, ABC, NBC for example). Bright flashes from cameras have always been really hard for any encoder to handle. I've checked all of the other channels and they look fine. I almost think there is some slight edge enhancement going on around some of the logos like in the lower right corner really look at the HGTV logo, TLC, Food Network or Discovery logo's on those channels. I did read that one of the features was logo detection so that it can eliminate the mosquito noise that often occurs around logos on screen.

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#149 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:57 AM

The more I analyze this ...

They freed up D10 transponders 11 & 12, and parts of 3 & 13.

Very interesting.

Assuming that there's no issue with D10, this is very good news.

Lots of free space now, assuming that they use it for mainstream HD, and there's no issue with D10.


Hi, It would seem to me that if there was an issue with D10 that they would have to disclose it since they are a publicly traded company. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Otoh why would they shift stuff off of D10 if there is no problem? If it were to add new content they could have left the channels on D10 and just added the new channels to where they shifted too.

To put it another way I could see shifting a channel here and a channel there or even swapping them to better maximize a transponder and even out the quality, nut to move entire transponder of content?
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#150 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:06 AM

Hi, It would seem to me that if there was an issue with D10 that they would have to disclose it since they are a publicly traded company. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Otoh why would they shift stuff off of D10 if there is no problem? If it were to add new content they could have left the channels on D10 and just added the new channels to where they shifted too.

To put it another way I could see shifting a channel here and a channel there or even swapping them to better maximize a transponder and even out the quality, nut to move entire transponder of content?

There is a propulsion issue with D10, they disclosed it a while back. CEO mentioned it.

There is no indication that this has anything to do with that, but always try to indicate all options so everyone is aware, as we speculate.

There may be some technical reason why they picked those channels. They selected channels from multiple transponders, some all, some not.

As we usually do, we'll track this regularly, and analyze for any hints or patterns.
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