Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

DirecTV National HD Listing/Maps Discussion Thread (Technical - Not Anticipation)


  • Please log in to reply
652 replies to this topic

#141 OFFLINE   georule

georule

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,593 posts
Joined: Mar 31, 2010

Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:24 PM

The main public statement I want to see in the near future is the re-loading of those D10 transponders at 6 per. Then I'll be ready to pop the champagne corks.
LR(non-CE): HR44, Mits 65C9; Office/FR (CE): HR22-100 + AM21, Mits 60737 + Mits 3DA1 3D adapter. Spare bedroom (non-CE), HR23. Genie WHDVR, wireless networking (yay!)

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#142 OFFLINE   georule

georule

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,593 posts
Joined: Mar 31, 2010

Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:29 PM

Eh, it just occurred to me that if I go to my dark place, that even re-loading the empty D10 transponders at 6 per could, theoretically, just be a way point on the way to reloading D11 and D12 at 6 per, so as to maximize the empty space (and therefore minimize risk) on D10.

But I don't really believe it. If they reload those D10 transponders at 6 per, I'm breaking out the single malt.
LR(non-CE): HR44, Mits 65C9; Office/FR (CE): HR22-100 + AM21, Mits 60737 + Mits 3DA1 3D adapter. Spare bedroom (non-CE), HR23. Genie WHDVR, wireless networking (yay!)

#143 OFFLINE   Shades228

Shades228

    Hall Of Fame

  • Banned User
  • 5,914 posts
Joined: Mar 18, 2008

Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:36 PM

One thing I've always wondered. When they move a channel to another satellite, if someone happens to be watching that channel, do they actually see anything on screen like a Searching for satellite error or a sort of blip?


No SFSS but if it wasn't being recorded the buffer is dumped. Much like the ending of NFL games and the transponders are swapped to another game.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#144 OFFLINE   maartena

maartena

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,815 posts
Joined: Nov 01, 2010

Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:48 PM

There's actually now one with 6 HD and 1 SD.


Would it be worth noting that on the transponder with 6 HD and 1 SD, that ESPN-U is a 720p channel? Perhaps that uses a little bit less bandwidth then 1080i, and thus leaves a little room, enough for 1 SD?
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#145 OFFLINE   Racer88

Racer88

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 801 posts
Joined: Sep 12, 2006

Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:54 PM

I think it's kinda obvious this has been the plan all along. Especially given the huge gap between the launch of D12 and D14. They knew this advancement in encoder tech was in the pipe 3 or more years ago and this would allow them to keep growing their HD lineup without having to put up another bird right away.

Next move is pretty obvioulsly to move another large block of channels onto the vacated D10 TP's. Wash, rinse, repeat, until they change all the ones they intend to change. Going to be interesting to see how it all plays out for sure. At 2 TP's a week we've got many weeks to go if they end loading every TP with 6 channels each.

#146 OFFLINE   Davenlr

Davenlr

    Geek til I die

  • Registered
  • 9,090 posts
Joined: Sep 16, 2006

Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:30 PM

Since that one transponder is working with 6HD and 1SD, Id *really* like it if they started adding one popular, but not carried in HD yet, channel to the mpeg4 format, so at least watching them wouldnt be so tedious on the eyes.

Tivo Premier XL4, Tivo Premier, Tivo HD whole home on Xfinity HD, DirecTv Whole Home with 39" high gain KaKu dish, Roku3,SageTv 8 TB Win8 Server -> DVDO Edge-> Denon AVR, Klipsch KB15's/Panasonic 55ST60 plasma"


#147 OFFLINE   dpeters11

dpeters11

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 13,328 posts
  • LocationCincinnati
Joined: May 30, 2007

Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:17 AM

What, carry it in both formats? Otherwise a lot of customers would lose it altogether.

#148 OFFLINE   cypherx

cypherx

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,904 posts
  • LocationPA - Berks County
Joined: Aug 27, 2010

Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:35 AM

So the only thing I really noticed with 6HD+1SD in one tp compression was on Ch 642 CSNHD. There was a Nascar event and some of the scenes with camera flashes did cause some macro-blocking and mosquito noise in the picture. HOWEVER, I would see that all the time anyway during awards shows or live performances on the major networks, even in MPEG2 on cable (CBS, ABC, NBC for example). Bright flashes from cameras have always been really hard for any encoder to handle. I've checked all of the other channels and they look fine. I almost think there is some slight edge enhancement going on around some of the logos like in the lower right corner really look at the HGTV logo, TLC, Food Network or Discovery logo's on those channels. I did read that one of the features was logo detection so that it can eliminate the mosquito noise that often occurs around logos on screen.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#149 OFFLINE   TBoneit

TBoneit

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,285 posts
Joined: Jul 27, 2006

Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:57 AM

The more I analyze this ...

They freed up D10 transponders 11 & 12, and parts of 3 & 13.

Very interesting.

Assuming that there's no issue with D10, this is very good news.

Lots of free space now, assuming that they use it for mainstream HD, and there's no issue with D10.


Hi, It would seem to me that if there was an issue with D10 that they would have to disclose it since they are a publicly traded company. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Otoh why would they shift stuff off of D10 if there is no problem? If it were to add new content they could have left the channels on D10 and just added the new channels to where they shifted too.

To put it another way I could see shifting a channel here and a channel there or even swapping them to better maximize a transponder and even out the quality, nut to move entire transponder of content?
Remember when your kids were the TV set's remote control?

#150 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,137 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:06 AM

Hi, It would seem to me that if there was an issue with D10 that they would have to disclose it since they are a publicly traded company. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Otoh why would they shift stuff off of D10 if there is no problem? If it were to add new content they could have left the channels on D10 and just added the new channels to where they shifted too.

To put it another way I could see shifting a channel here and a channel there or even swapping them to better maximize a transponder and even out the quality, nut to move entire transponder of content?

There is a propulsion issue with D10, they disclosed it a while back. CEO mentioned it.

There is no indication that this has anything to do with that, but always try to indicate all options so everyone is aware, as we speculate.

There may be some technical reason why they picked those channels. They selected channels from multiple transponders, some all, some not.

As we usually do, we'll track this regularly, and analyze for any hints or patterns.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#151 OFFLINE   RAD

RAD

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 16,065 posts
  • LocationDripping Springs, TX
Joined: Aug 05, 2002

Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:07 AM

What I'm curious about is what were these two transponders doing on D12 before and what will the freed up transponders on D10 going to be doing? If the reason for limited/slow rollout of new HD channels was due to bandwidth then I'd guess whatever D12 was doing with them will be migrated to D10. If these two transponders will be opened up now then why the need for new encoders if they have room for more channels without them?

Edited by RAD, 07 June 2012 - 09:12 AM.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#152 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,137 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:11 AM

What I'm curious about is what were these two transponders doing on D12 before and what will the freed up transponders on D10 going to be doing? If the reason for limited/slow rollout of new HD channels was due to bandwidth then I'd guess whatever D12 was doing with them will be migrated to D10. If these two transponders will be opened up now then why the need for new encoders if they have too for more channels without them?

Yep, all good questions. I'm inclined to think that bandwidth will be less of an issue now for a while, but need to track this for a little while before getting too optimistic.

From watching these transponders for the past few years, they usually do things in phases, week-by-week, once per week.

We'll need to track this for a while, but it certainly is the most significant change in quite some time.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#153 OFFLINE   shuye

shuye

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 85 posts
Joined: Oct 20, 2008

Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:36 AM

This might be wrong, but I see this as a similar process to de-fragging your hard drive. Directv is taking individual channels (file fragments) from different TP's (locations) and packaging them together into a more efficient group (6 HD or 6HD + 1SD) and placing them in a different location. They need a completly empty space (TP) to place this group into.

I know less about bandwith and how much each channel uses than most on this board, but it would seem to me that a 720p channel would use less than a 1080 channel, and a 720p channel with lots of action might use more than another 720p channel that does not. This would support the idea that they need to evaluate each channel and determine the optimum grouping of 6 or 6+1 together to place on a transponder to not loose any picture quality.

Hopefully we will see more of this in the next few weeks as they re-organize all of the channels.

#154 OFFLINE   georule

georule

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,593 posts
Joined: Mar 31, 2010

Posted 07 June 2012 - 10:14 AM

As Sixto point outs, quarterly budgets likely come into play as well in purchasing new encoders. I don't know that I'd expect a straight, unbroken, week by week march thru the transponders.

Plus, if they really have the capability to add 44 more slots (which we're not entirely sure of, because the evidence is piling up they need the right mix of channels), why would you do that all at once when you don't have 44 channels of new content that needs to go there? Unless they got a great volume discount on the encoders.
LR(non-CE): HR44, Mits 65C9; Office/FR (CE): HR22-100 + AM21, Mits 60737 + Mits 3DA1 3D adapter. Spare bedroom (non-CE), HR23. Genie WHDVR, wireless networking (yay!)

#155 OFFLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Fortuna! Fameux des Halles

  • Registered
  • 12,978 posts
  • LocationWinters, California
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:47 AM

I can think of 44 missing HD channels


As ye ramble though life, Brother, keep your eye on the doughnut, not the hole....

Well, I remember that from many years ago....
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#156 OFFLINE   georule

georule

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,593 posts
Joined: Mar 31, 2010

Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:56 PM

I can think of 44 missing HD channels


What I'd really like to know is how many of those they already have contracts in place for, that they've been sitting on.

I'd think that most contracts negotiated in the last couple years would have "if and when" clauses already in them for HD that could be executed when D* wants to execute them. Certainly that would make sense to me anyway. At least for channels that already had HD before the last contract was executed.

I'd also be moderately careful about the 44 thing. . . we think we know that content mix is important, and it hasn't been proven yet that they can mix their channels in such a way to get all theoretical 44 extra out of them. Tho that they have a lot of sports programming should help.

Edited by georule, 07 June 2012 - 02:12 PM.

LR(non-CE): HR44, Mits 65C9; Office/FR (CE): HR22-100 + AM21, Mits 60737 + Mits 3DA1 3D adapter. Spare bedroom (non-CE), HR23. Genie WHDVR, wireless networking (yay!)

#157 OFFLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Fortuna! Fameux des Halles

  • Registered
  • 12,978 posts
  • LocationWinters, California
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:07 PM

What I'd really like to know is how many of those they already have contracts in place for, that they've been sitting on.

I'd think that most contracts negotiated in the last couple years would have "if and when" clauses already in them for HD that could be executed when D* wants to execute them. Certainly that would make sense to me anyway. At least for channels that already had HD before the last contract was executed.


Good point. But in addition to (possible/likely/certain) constraints on bandwidth, there's the 'wiring' up for HD, apparently pretty costly, and with technical limitations on just adding them willy-nilly. What I've read and surmised; have no direct knowledge on that.
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#158 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,137 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:10 PM

Lets try to keep the HD contracts stuff in the HD anticipation thread ...
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#159 OFFLINE   jmpfaff

jmpfaff

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 56 posts
Joined: Dec 12, 2004

Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:50 PM

I know less about bandwith and how much each channel uses than most on this board, but it would seem to me that a 720p channel would use less than a 1080 channel


Can't say I know this factually, but I would expect 720p to use slightly more bandwidth than 1080i -- as 1080i is only sending 540 lines in each frame, while 720p sends 720 lines in each frame.

But regardless of which is bigger and which is smaller, the defrag concept of mixing the 1080i and 720p channels and the fast action channels with the slow action channels to get an optimal compression mix would seem to be a really smart thing to do whenever you had a chance to do it. And if so, kudos to DTV for investing the cycles in doing this!

PS -- Thanks Sixto for monitoring this for us on a regular basis!

#160 OFFLINE   Davenlr

Davenlr

    Geek til I die

  • Registered
  • 9,090 posts
Joined: Sep 16, 2006

Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:56 PM

Can't say I know this factually, but I would expect 720p to use slightly more bandwidth than 1080i -- as 1080i is only sending 540 lines in each frame, while 720p sends 720 lines in each frame.


720p is smaller, since its only using 1280 pixels per line, where 1080i is using 1920 per line.
(540*2)*1920=2,073,600 pixels vs 720*1280=921,600 pixels

Tivo Premier XL4, Tivo Premier, Tivo HD whole home on Xfinity HD, DirecTv Whole Home with 39" high gain KaKu dish, Roku3,SageTv 8 TB Win8 Server -> DVDO Edge-> Denon AVR, Klipsch KB15's/Panasonic 55ST60 plasma"





Protected By... spam firewall...And...