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Lakers New Regional TV Network - NOW ON THE AIR


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#41 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:28 PM

I would imagine that they think it will improve ticket sales, but we're talking about those who can't afford free TV. The Lakers can ill afford to write anyone off at this point.


They really can't "improve ticket sales", virtually every Lakers home game is sold out.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

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#42 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:43 PM

I just don't think you understand the Spanish market in the Lakers DMA. The Spanish channel could get as good or better ratings than the English one. Remember it includes san diego all the way to Fresno. The advertising will all be different. It's a different world in California than the rest of the country for many things. Half of all our retail stores have multiple languages for tags and signs. Spanish radio stations outperform English ones regularly. There is no majority here. And you have to understand, if you can get better targeted advertising for different segments of the market then it will be successful. That's not something they can do with subtitles at all.


Oh, crap. You LA guys always think you are so different. There is no Spanish speaking population in DC. Right.

As I said, local fine. CONUS, nope. Use closed captioning and secondary audio track.

BTW, I am firmly in the camp that you learn the language. Culture is not tied to language. My first generation Italian American father was culturally Italian but he spoke English. There is no favor being given to Spanish speakers if we keep them apart from the rest of the population.
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#43 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:44 PM

Hey, he's from Maryland. Give him a break. :D


I live in a county that is 40% Asian. Give you a break.
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#44 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:47 PM

Might be a waste to you. Or me for that matter, I don't speak a word of Spanish.

Might not be a waste to the over 50 million Latino's this country has as of the 2010 Census. And those people aren't any less important than you or me. And seeing the Lakers DMA is about 30 million people, with about HALF of those people being Latino, I'd say it is rather relevant. Especially when you start to included targeted advertising in Spanish, during the games.

As for CONUS/Spotbeam.... The Lakers DMA extends to at least three spot beams (Hawaii, Socal, Nevada are all in the DMA), so I think it would be a waste of Spotbeam bandwidth if you need to use three spotbeams just to get the Spanish version to the entire Lakers DMA, while you can do with just 1 CONUS slot.


Wasting my bandwidth on redundant programming. I will never think that is a good idea.

3 spot beams are still less than 1 CONUS channel no matter how you dice it.

But, my god, how did all those Spanish speaking people enjoy the Lakers without a channel that is purely Spanish?

Oh, and of those 50 million, 15 are in the LA market. That leaves 35 million. How many are DirecTV customers and then how many of them actually buy the NBA package or the RSN package?

Don't throw numbers around. I gave you a solution. It works for 95% of the country and 95% of the channels out there. But you always think that LA drives the world. It does not.
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#45 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 04:09 PM

Oh, crap. You LA guys always think you are so different. There is no Spanish speaking population in DC. Right.

As I said, local fine. CONUS, nope. Use closed captioning and secondary audio track.


As I said, waste of three spot beams just to get the Lakers DMA. If there is plenty of bandwidth, I don't see a reason to NOT go CONUS. Nothing wrong with a Spanish RSN, there is plenty of other Spanish channels, and this would also add a Spanish feed to those with NBA League pass.

TWC Deportes is going to do a lot of their own productions. And again, there is a LOT of money to be made with targeted advertising in Spanish, also during the game. There is plenty of reason to go "full boat" with a channel like this. And the Latino market in Los Angeles is SO big, it's not going to be an unimportant channel either.


BTW, I am firmly in the camp that you learn the language.


What language? This country doesn't have an official language. The founding fathers didn't think it was important to include in the constitution, and any later endeavors to put make a constitutional amendment failed. In the conservative camp they are very split about this too.... there are the ones that think more like Ron Paul that don't want ANY official language as a federal law and have the "let the states decide" opinion, anyone that wants to run for President (like Romney) is against it because they would lose so many votes from the 15% Latino's in this country, and that leaves a relatively small group trying to pass legislation re: an official language, from both sides of the aisle. (There are some Democrats that favor this as well). All states have been able to do so far is make it the official language of their state, but they are still bound by many federal laws they can't ignore.

I actually agree with you on this: I learned the language, so can they. But the reality is.... this is not going to happen. On top of that, this is a free market enterprise, where companies are at complete and free liberty to establish a TV station in a different language, if they see it might be profitable. TWC is not doing this because they feel for the poor latinos that might not understand the English commentators, they feel that there is money to be made from Spanish language pre/post shows, along with Spanish language advertising.

And with 50 million Latino's in this country..... not only are we WAY past trying to force everyone to speak 1 language, we have pretty much reached the status of a bi-lingual country. With 22% French speakers in Canada, we aren't that far away anymore with the 15% Spanish speakers in the United States. And they produce a hell of a lot more babies than the average non-Latino in the U.S.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

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#46 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 04:20 PM

But, my god, how did all those Spanish speaking people enjoy the Lakers without a channel that is purely Spanish?


This doesn't mean there isn't a market for it. This is a capitalist country, and TWC thinks they can make money with a Spanish language RSN. It will be the nation's first Spanish language RSN indeed.

The question is whether a CONUS channel is profitable for DirecTV. If it is, then why not. If it isn't, carrying the channel at ALL might not be something they would want. I'd say it has the potential for a lot more profit (and/or loss of Latino customers who might go to TWC for it) to get the channel CONUS than using that CONUS spot for something that isn't going to lose/gain any customers, such as Basic HD.

In the end, neither you or me know all the numbers. TWC will crunch them, DirecTV will crunch them.

I personally THINK the channel will be profitable for TWC, and will help retain latino customers for DirecTV. I also think it is an "all or nothing" deal.

All this talk about spotbeams.... we should push this to spotbeams to save bandwidth, we should push that to spotbeams to save bandwidth. Do we have unlimited spotbeam bandwidth? In another topic somewhere, where it was noted that the Los Angeles DMA got 5 new HD channels (yes, in Spanish), it was also noted that it was getting REALLY cramped on the Los Angeles spotbeam. Spotbeams aren't the answer for everything we don't want wasting CONUS bandwidth.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#47 OFFLINE   espnjason

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:12 PM

I feel bad for the people who cant afford cable or satellite as they wont have their laker road games for free over the air any more.


There is another side to this coin. Even with NBA League Pass, those outside L.A. but within the defined Lakers market weren't likely to get the KCAL road games unless they were nationally televised. At least TWCS would be the go-to channel for all concerned.

I've experienced it constantly for the five years I lived in Vegas. I understood the same frustration happens in San Diego, Bakersfield, and Hawaii so there are many that would regard this as a boon.

Subscribed to DirecTV for NFL Sunday Ticket, remained a subscriber for international football.


#48 OFFLINE   espnjason

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:48 PM

Maybe TWC Deportes wants to be available in Mexico. I saw a couple of Lakers jerseys when I was in Cabo back in '07 and there are a small handful of such in Tijuana.

#49 OFFLINE   kb24sd

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:27 AM

I would imagine that they think it will improve ticket sales, but we're talking about those who can't afford free TV. The Lakers can ill afford to write anyone off at this point.


:lol:

Staples Center seats 18,997 max and the Laker games are always sold out.Heck the waiting list to become a season ticket holder is over 5 years just to get the nose bleed 300 level seats where 7 foot basketball players look like ants.We aren't the other team down the hall.Well they also sell out now also now with their flashy lob city crap.Yes it's exciting basketball but if I want to see a bunch of alley oop dunks. I'll go watch the Harlem Globe Trotters instead.

Mark my words when I say the Clipper style of basketball won't get them any rings anytime soon.

Heck their franchise player Blake Griffin is injured once again with another serious knee injury.He better learn how to improve & adjust his game if he wants to stay in the league for over 10 years.

Honestly though the whole argument of losing a lot of TV viewership because of a lot of fans who can't afford cable or satellite.I just don't buy. Sure the Lakers may lose some viewers locally in the poverty parts of LA & Socal.But also remember that what they are losing they will make up with rest of the Laker fans in the TV network coverage that use to not get the local channel KCAL 9 which carried the road game before that weren't nationally televised.That market is San Diego, Las Vegas, Hawaii, and whole bunch of central CA cities in between.

KCAL 9 was the channel that the poor, homeless, starving college student, non paying television viewer relied on in the past to catch a couple Laker road games since they could have gotten the channel through OTA.Under the old TV deal a person still needed at least basic digital cable to get FSN West in order to view the Lakers home games.

Edited by kb24sd, 02 August 2012 - 04:44 AM.


#50 OFFLINE   kb24sd

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:47 AM

There is another side to this coin. Even with NBA League Pass, those outside L.A. but within the defined Lakers market weren't likely to get the KCAL road games unless they were nationally televised. At least TWCS would be the go-to channel for all concerned.

I've experienced it constantly for the five years I lived in Vegas. I understood the same frustration happens in San Diego, Bakersfield, and Hawaii so there are many that would regard this as a boon.


Yeah the frustration was your only option to catch maybe 15 to 20 of the non nationally televised road games was to spend $189 or $99 each season on the TV version of NBA League Pass or the broadband version.

I hated that so much.

#51 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:58 AM

... All this talk about spotbeams.... we should push this to spotbeams to save bandwidth, we should push that to spotbeams to save bandwidth. Do we have unlimited spotbeam bandwidth? In another topic somewhere, where it was noted that the Los Angeles DMA got 5 new HD channels (yes, in Spanish), it was also noted that it was getting REALLY cramped on the Los Angeles spotbeam. Spotbeams aren't the answer for everything we don't want wasting CONUS bandwidth.


Yeah maybe;

The LA DMA has three assigned Ka band spotbeam transponders; 19, 21, and 22, distributed over two spotbeams (19 on one, 21 and 22 on another). And with the latest sudden "avalanche" of Spanish HD local channel additions, that leaves six HD slots left available for future additions assuming the same 6 HD channels per transponder max. loading as the CONUS ones.

But even if there were room to place the TWC Sportsnet Desportes RSN on an LA spotbeam transponder, as you say the bigger problem would be that neither LA spotbeam, even in combination, fully covers the entire Lakers' DMA spanning roughly from Fresno to Bakersfield to San Diego to the Las Vegas market areas.

You would need to simulcast the RSN on other markets' spotbeams, assuming they even have the room for it on their transponders.

#52 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:10 PM

Fresno
Bakersfield
Santa barbra
Las Vegas
Palm springs
San Diego
Hawaii
Los Angeles

I believe that's all the different markets that have their own locals and own spot beams that would have to have this channel on each to hit the entire market.

There is zero chance they could put this channel on spots, it's going to be on league pass 70 plus nights a year.

#53 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:12 PM

:lol:

Staples Center seats 18,997 max and the Laker games are always sold out.Heck the waiting list to become a season ticket holder is over 5 years just to get the nose bleed 300 level seats where 7 foot basketball players look like ants.We aren't the other team down the hall.Well they also sell out now also now with their flashy lob city crap.Yes it's exciting basketball but if I want to see a bunch of alley oop dunks. I'll go watch the Harlem Globe Trotters instead.

Mark my words when I say the Clipper style of basketball won't get them any rings anytime soon.

Heck their franchise player Blake Griffin is injured once again with another serious knee injury.He better learn how to improve & adjust his game if he wants to stay in the league for over 10 years.

Honestly though the whole argument of losing a lot of TV viewership because of a lot of fans who can't afford cable or satellite.I just don't buy. Sure the Lakers may lose some viewers locally in the poverty parts of LA & Socal.But also remember that what they are losing they will make up with rest of the Laker fans in the TV network coverage that use to not get the local channel KCAL 9 which carried the road game before that weren't nationally televised.That market is San Diego, Las Vegas, Hawaii, and whole bunch of central CA cities in between.

KCAL 9 was the channel that the poor, homeless, starving college student, non paying television viewer relied on in the past to catch a couple Laker road games since they could have gotten the channel through OTA.Under the old TV deal a person still needed at least basic digital cable to get FSN West in order to view the Lakers home games.


You know the Lakers had more lob dunks than the Clippers last year...

And your Absolutely right about the market loss vs larger market gains. I doubt many people that watch the Lakers don't have access to at least a basic cable package.

#54 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:35 PM

Fresno
Bakersfield
Santa barbra
Las Vegas
Palm springs
San Diego
Hawaii
Los Angeles

I believe that's all the different markets that have their own locals and own spot beams that would have to have this channel on each to hit the entire market.

There is zero chance they could put this channel on spots, it's going to be on league pass 70 plus nights a year.


Well.... Hawaii is obviously on its own spotbeam. But many of the other markets share the same one. "Southern California" has its own spot beam, that has Los Angeles, San Diego, Palm Springs, Santa Barbara, and Bakersfield covered.

Las Vegas is part of the spot beam that also covers Phoenix/Tuscon. So is Yuma, AZ which is the only part of Arizona that is both part of the Suns and the Lakers DMA.

Fresno is also part of the Lakers DMA, which I believe is covered by the spot beam directed at Northern California.

Also don't forget: ALL of Nevada is considered Lakers territory by the NBA, which is really covered by three spot beams: South: The spotbeam that hits Arizona. West: (e.g. Reno, NV) The spotbeam that hits Northern California. And the mostly un-populated east is covered by the Utah spotbeam. At least from what I have been able to figure out earlier, I don't have Google Earth handy right now.

If we were to forget about the three horses and their cowboys that live in Eastern Nevada, at least FOUR spotbeams would be required to cover the NBA Market area. If we do include them, and the Laker fans sitting in Area 51 demolishing UFO's, we'd need a 5th spotbeam.

They really aren't going to put the English one on CONUS to satisfy NBA league pass and Sports Pack subscribers for side-programming, and spread the Spanish one over 5 spotbeam transponders. Especially as some of those spotbeams don't have unlimited bandwidth either.

If carriage of the Spanish version is in dispute, it is either going to be CONUS, or no carriage at all and only carry the English one.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

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#55 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:40 PM

Well.... Hawaii is obviously on its own spotbeam. But many of the other markets share the same one. "Southern California" has its own spot beam, that has Los Angeles, San Diego, Palm Springs, Santa Barbara, and Bakersfield covered.

Las Vegas is part of the spot beam that also covers Phoenix/Tuscon. So is Yuma, AZ which is the only part of Arizona that is both part of the Suns and the Lakers DMA.

Fresno is also part of the Lakers DMA, which I believe is covered by the spot beam directed at Northern California.

Also don't forget: ALL of Nevada is considered Lakers territory by the NBA, which is really covered by three spot beams: South: The spotbeam that hits Arizona. West: (e.g. Reno, NV) The spotbeam that hits Northern California. And the mostly un-populated east is covered by the Utah spotbeam. At least from what I have been able to figure out earlier, I don't have Google Earth handy right now.

If we were to forget about the three horses and their cowboys that live in Eastern Nevada, at least FOUR spotbeams would be required to cover the NBA Market area. If we do include them, and the Laker fans sitting in Area 51 demolishing UFO's, we'd need a 5th spotbeam.

They really aren't going to put the English one on CONUS to satisfy NBA league pass and Sports Pack subscribers for side-programming, and spread the Spanish one over 5 spotbeam transponders. Especially as some of those spotbeams don't have unlimited bandwidth either.

If carriage of the Spanish version is in dispute, it is either going to be CONUS, or no carriage at all and only carry the English one.


You make- lot of assumptions. And Juno to a conclusion.
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#56 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:50 PM

You make- lot of assumptions. And Juno to a conclusion.


I just think it is a complete waste of having to use multiple transponders to "spot beam" a Spanish RSN, and it seems that those with a little more information on how these spot beams work.... seem to agree with that.

Spot beams aren't a "unlimited resource" either, and if there is market demand for a Spanish language RSN with their own produced programming, and not to forget its own Spanish language advertising, well.... why not?

Spanish speaking Sports Pack subscribers nationwide might appreciate that. And there currently is enough CONUS bandwidth to carry both, so why not if market conditions are right.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#57 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:54 PM

I just think it is a complete waste of having to use multiple transponders to "spot beam" a Spanish RSN, and it seems that those with a little more information on how these spot beams work.... seem to agree with that.

Spot beams aren't a "unlimited resource" either, and if there is market demand for a Spanish language RSN with their own produced programming, and not to forget its own Spanish language advertising, well.... why not?

Spanish speaking Sports Pack subscribers nationwide might appreciate that. And there currently is enough CONUS bandwidth to carry both, so why not if market conditions are right.


Your worst assumption is that it must cover the entire laker area. The english one, yes, but the spanish one may be targetted to only the biggest latin market. Another bad assumption is that an English version is in conus so then the Spanish must be too.
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#58 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:10 PM

Your worst assumption is that it must cover the entire laker area. The english one, yes, but the spanish one may be targetted to only the biggest latin market. Another bad assumption is that an English version is in conus so then the Spanish must be too.


Although it isn't 100% clear, the NBA seems to treat the networks the same:

http://www.nba.com/l...adcast_faq.html

"Where will I be able to watch Lakers games?
Lakers games will be on Time Warner Cable SportsNet and Time Warner Cable Deportes in the Lakers territory. The Lakers territory, designated by the NBA, includes all of Southern California, Nevada and Hawaii. Some games will also be available via national broadcast."

It just doesn't make any sense to not carry both CONUS.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#59 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:04 PM

Haven't seen it mentioned yet, but couldn't they put the Spanish version on 119°? Wouldn't that make more sense?
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#60 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:11 PM

Haven't seen it mentioned yet, but couldn't they put the Spanish version on 119°? Wouldn't that make more sense?


Yeah I don't see why not.

Not quite sure how this works with packaging the channels though.... I was able to get a free 5LNB from DirecTV because of 1 channel that I PAID for (in this case the Irish music channel), but wasn't getting. So they came out and put a new LNB on my Dish so I could receive it.

If the intention is to have the local RSN's, regardless of language, in the "Choice" package, they might have to deal with "I am paying for that channel but I can't receive it, please fix it" calls. Now if it is part of the SPANISH package, different story of course.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

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