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Lakers New Regional TV Network - NOW ON THE AIR


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#826 OFFLINE   FenixTX

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:48 AM

Could DirecTV add a RSN charge of let's say $2.00 to each subscriber that is in the Los Angeles DMA that receives this channel? Then they would really only be paying $1.95 per subscriber. If the Lakers are as popular in Los Angeles as some are saying I doubt anyone would have a problem with a little fee each month right?
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#827 OFFLINE   Sandra

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:24 PM

Personally I would like to see DirecTV move their line in the sand back a little further so they come to an agreement and get this darn TWC channel on the air. I pay so much for sports right now, I honestly do not care if my bill goes up because they meet the demands of TWC.

That's my opinion.


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#828 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:36 PM

Proof? Source? Link?



Which is, of course, completely false. Not even remotely accurate or true.


Proof? Follow the whole dialogue on the Pac-12. Follow how the line changed from "we'll have an update when school starts..." to they walked completely from the table.

My written communication with them says they want to carry the channel and are negotiating to carry it. Then, we find out right before the opener Pac 12 got up from the table and walked away.

Dude, the facts are all hitting you in the head. Call it whatever you want, it doesn't matter. No one has to prove anything to you at all.

Go ahead and believe that somehow Pac 12 is causing all the rift when the deal is substantially the same with every competing provider in the marketplace. Yea, like Directv is going to somehow get a substantially better deal? Please.

#829 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:49 PM

You are free to believe whatever you want.

I've seem some reports that show 1.7M of Directv's US customers are in the Los Angeles area. If so, LA-based customers would represent about 9% of Directv's total US customers. I don't know if it is true or not and I do not care.

I am also sure you've got the whole thing all figured out from your knowledge of the Pac 12, west coast viewers and customers, and so forth, all from the metropolis of Cary, NC. Plenty of Pac 12 alumni all over the country have an interest, so your statement that "no one cares east of the rockies" is ridiculous at best. Does it have a 100% viewership, nope. Is the viewership thinner than on the west coast? More than likely. But the offer is to put the package as a RSN in Pac 12 markets and rest of the country in the sports pack, same as Dish Network. So there is no loss whatsoever, except bandwidth by having it back east if it is not turned on for the east coast customers.

Fact is many providers are now offering the channel and for Directv to say that it's causing a big rift on their bottom line is self serving at best. No doubt it is, but Directv also carries so many sports channels in it's tiers that have very low viewership, so what's up with Pac 12? Speed, Fuel, Pursuit, Sportsman, NBC Sports/Versus, CBS Sports/CSTV, Fox College Sports, Big Ten, etc. Do all of those have incredible followings? Nope. Are they in sports tiers? Nope. You can successfully argue for sports tiers if you put them all in sports tiers, but that is not what Directv has done and that's not what they are doing.

That is the only true statement in your entire rant. Everyone knows that some people will leave DirecTV over the PAC 12 and Lakers, but no one east of the Rockies cares about the PAC 12 and no one outside of the Lakers DMA would be able to see the Lakers games, even if DirecTV carried the channel unless they have League Pass, and if they have League Pass, they would see the games even if DirecTV does not carry the channel. LA is big, but it is still a small part of the entire DirecTV customer base.

As I have said many times before, DirecTV has already calculated how much they will lose by not having the PAC 12 or Lakers Channels. If they can get the channels for less than they will lose by not having them, then DirecTV will carry the channels. As long as the content owners are asking for more than what DirecTV expects to lose by not carrying them, DirecTV has no interest in the channels.

It is all about the bottom line. There was no way DirecTV would come out ahead on either deal. It is just matter of what would cause them to lose less. So far, DirecTV has decided that the lost customers will be smaller than the amount that is being asked to carry the channels.



#830 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

Perhaps they will go to the games?


Games are sold out, so that doesn't really work for millions of fans, especially when half of them are more than two hours away without traffic.

#831 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:56 PM

No but you can compare their channel situation, both are owned by cable companys asking too much money for their channels. ;)


I don't think you can. All you can say is that the first brick in the foundation is the same, and that's about it. The rest is so different it's not worth attempting to draw any parallels.

#832 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

Can you keep the Pac12 discussion in it's thread please? We're discussing the Lakers channel here.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#833 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:01 PM

Y......... No doubt it is, but Directv also carries so many sports channels in it's tiers that have very low viewership, so what's up with Pac 12? Speed, Fuel, Pursuit, Sportsman, NBC Sports/Versus, CBS Sports/CSTV, Fox College Sports, Big Ten, etc. Do all of those have incredible followings? Nope. Are they in sports tiers? Nope. You can successfully argue for sports tiers if you put them all in sports tiers, but that is not what Directv has done and that's not what they are doing.


You are assuming DirecTV doesn't plan on changing that as new contracts come up for renegotiation.

#834 OFFLINE   fleckrj

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:08 PM

The Lakers averaged 271,000 viewers last season on FS West. KCAL numbers were probably higher.
http://www.sportsbus...SN-ratings.aspx


I've seem some reports that show 1.7M of Directv's US customers are in the Los Angeles area. If so, LA-based customers would represent about 9% of Directv's total US customers. I don't know if it is true or not and I do not care.


So, there are 1.7 M DirecTV customers in the LA market but only 271,000 watch Lakers games (and most of them are not DirecTV customers). If half of the 271,000 who watch Lakers games are DirecTV customers (and I doubt DirecTV penetration in the LA area is 50%), that would be about 8% of the 9% of DirecTV customers who live in LA, or about 0.8% of the entire DirecTV customer base that care about the Lakers Channel.

#835 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:11 PM

Negotiations take time. We know from Viacom and PAC12 that DirecTV really isn't bullied in to the "make a deal now" anymore. They will leave stations dark, or not carry them until the other side blinks.

Now, with TWC Sportsnet this might be a more dangerous situation, as people WILL leave. But they won't leave till the actual season begins, so DirecTV has time till early November to make the deal. And TWC might be getting more desperate by then.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if DirecTV drags this out even longer, and is going to wait till someone else signs first.


Negotiations do not take this much time. They aren't negotiating right now, they are waiting. I am sure both sides have made an offer, and are just letting it sit their to see which will blink first. That's not negotiating, that's playing chicken. And thats when one or both sides start saying publicly that they are close to a deal. But at this point, everyone wants to be optimistic. It easy to say they are close, because they both have probably made several offers and are probably fairly close, the problem is, at the end, one of them wants a little more, and I think that's where we are at now. Which is basically screwed if you are like me and don't live in a twc market. And I'm putting it mildly in comparison to how I really feel.

That's pretty much what happened with the pac12 too. The PAC 12 felt that the last offers made by each side where very close to each other, so they kept saying we are close, figuring DirecTV would fold based in the content of the channel. Did not happen. May not happen here. Either way, I'm not happy at all about it.

My biggest problem is I need to find one of my friends who lives in a twc area that will let me log in and stream the channel. However, all my friends live in cox or FIOS country, and I am in charter, so i can't even go to a friends house to watch games, much less stream them!

#836 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:13 PM

The Lakers averaged 271,000 viewers last season on FS West. KCAL numbers were probably higher.
http://www.sportsbus...SN-ratings.aspx


Ad that's average. There where a few games home and away as I recall that get a lot more, literally a million in a couple cases. Lets face it, people don't generally mind missing games against Toronto, but they do against ok'd, the celtics, Miami, etc...

#837 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:15 PM

So, there are 1.7 M DirecTV customers in the LA market but only 271,000 watch Lakers games (and most of them are not DirecTV customers). If half of the 271,000 who watch Lakers games are DirecTV customers (and I doubt DirecTV penetration in the LA area is 50%), that would be about 8% of the 9% of DirecTV customers who live in LA, or about 0.8% of the entire DirecTV customer base that care about the Lakers Channel.


You are assuming its the exact same people are watching every time. And your forgetting about the fact that this year for the first time ever, there will be no over the air games, which where half the good games.

Edited by inkahauts, 11 October 2012 - 01:39 PM.


#838 OFFLINE   fleckrj

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:16 PM

Negotiations do not take this much time. They aren't negotiating right now, they are waiting. I am sure both sides have made an offer, and are just letting it sit their to see which will blink first. That's not negotiating, that's playing chicken.


Not much different from how the NHL and their players are negotiating or how the NFL and its officials negotiated, or how the NBA and its players negotiated, or . . .

#839 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

Proof? Follow the whole dialogue on the Pac-12. Follow how the line changed from "we'll have an update when school starts..." to they walked completely from the table.

My written communication with them says they want to carry the channel and are negotiating to carry it. Then, we find out right before the opener Pac 12 got up from the table and walked away.

Dude, the facts are all hitting you in the head. Call it whatever you want, it doesn't matter. No one has to prove anything to you at all.

Go ahead and believe that somehow Pac 12 is causing all the rift when the deal is substantially the same with every competing provider in the marketplace. Yea, like Directv is going to somehow get a substantially better deal? Please.


So, you don't have any proof or a source to support your claims. Got it.

#840 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

Not much different from how the NHL and their players are negotiating or how the NFL and its officials negotiated, or how the NBA and its players negotiated, or . . .


Those groups where not negotiating more half the time during their disputes, but that's not even the same. Directv does not need the channels to survive. The NHL needs its players to survive. (And if you think the nfl didn't need its refs, just ask Green Bay. :) ) Circumstances are vastly different. DirecTV obviously made a final offer to PAC 12 and then just said that's it, we are done negotiating. I am starting to think they may have done the same with twc. At some point negotiations endgame status quo is there is a contract on the table, sign it or don't attitude from one side or the other. When two sides need each other in order for both to exists, you are always still negotiating. When one side does and the other doesn't, its tricky, but when neither side feels they need the other (especially if they actually don't need each other) like the twc and the pac12 right now......

#841 OFFLINE   kevintheoman

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:12 PM

So, there are 1.7 M DirecTV customers in the LA market but only 271,000 watch Lakers games (and most of them are not DirecTV customers). If half of the 271,000 who watch Lakers games are DirecTV customers (and I doubt DirecTV penetration in the LA area is 50%), that would be about 8% of the 9% of DirecTV customers who live in LA, or about 0.8% of the entire DirecTV customer base that care about the Lakers Channel.


You need to understand also that the Lakers territory extends into San Diego and Las Vegas. Half of San Diego and all of Las Vegas are cox cable. Part of Orange County is cox cable. I think there are pockets of cablevision somewhere in there too.

Point is, there are many homes in the Lakers territory that have no access to the channel. Time Warner needs DirecTV more than DirecTV needs Time Warner.

I suppose I'm agreeing with you actually....but your math just happens to be way off base.

#842 OFFLINE   sdk009

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

Ad that's average. There where a few games home and away as I recall that get a lot more, literally a million in a couple cases. Lets face it, people don't generally mind missing games against Toronto, but they do against ok'd, the celtics, Miami, etc...


That 271,000 represent the number of tuners set to FS West during a Laker game. You could say that that represents about 400,000 people maybe more. The Heat, Celtics, and the other top games and all of the playoffs are going to be on nationally on NBA TV, TNT and/or ESPN.

#843 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:03 PM

You are assuming DirecTV doesn't plan on changing that as new contracts come up for renegotiation.


I don't think so. CBS and Directv just re-upped themselves in a deal announced a few days ago. http://www.chicagotr...0,6809781.story It included CBS Sports Network. So no mention of that channel going to a sports tier.

Didn't Pursuit just re-up as well a month or so ago?

Not sports, but ION just signed a new deal as well. They didn't get relegated to a higher tier.

So no, based upon all of this I do not think so. So again, if they all go on a sports tier then it makes sense to push one away.

It's also fair for the provider to say that they are making a business decision to not to carry the Lakers, Pac 12, or anyone else. But that is not what is being said from the highest levels of Directv.

#844 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:13 PM

So, you don't have any proof or a source to support your claims. Got it.


I do have my own proof, which is my direct (no pun intended) conversions with the President's office of Directv as well as higher level Pac 12 folks, not to mention everything else in the public domain about the Lakers, Pac 12, and other things. I have also talked to some higher levels in the Blazers organization over the years about the TV deals they have.

That may not be proof for you and that is fine. That is your choice. I don't have the power of deposition and subpoena, so we'll never get a court room proof (and by the way a blog is not proof, nor even real journalism....)

For that matter you have no proof whatsoever that Directv is telling the truth.

I know Directv is not telling the truth about the sports channels. They dragged the Pac 12 out all summer with silly comments about how they would have an update as school starts. When pointed out to them that school had already started for several Pac 12 schools they ignored their earlier comment. Then on the eve of the season starting Directv walked away completely. Yes, they have offered some silly deal about PPV and a sports tier, but that's just self serving statements in the media.

The same thing is now happening with the Laker channel, they've spun it for months now and push is about to come to shove to see how Directv acts in the next few weeks.

It is OK for a company to walk away and decide whatever channel, including sports, is not in their business model. That is perfectly fine. It's a different thing to lie.

Hey, I left Directv, I am all fine with that. As I told them when I terminated you and I are just not compatible. Directv kept wanting to continue the relationship despite the fact I made it quite clear I needed to leave because they didn't offer what I want and their competitors do. I was offered $25 off for two years, free equipment upgrades, free NFL Sunday Ticket, free HBO and the others, free Sports Pack, I think Gameplan came up in the discussion as well. Despite all of that I said NO. They didn't want to let go.

A company can be honest and forthcoming with it's customers.

And there is another side to all of this - Directv owns Root Sports. Root Sports NW had Pac 12 last year. Root Sports NW is showing what this year? Some Big Sky games and high school football games from Seattle area. Really, being in Oregon it's great for the Seattle area kids to get on TV, but seriously? In theory without the content my bill should be substantially less - but did I get any give back there? Nope. That giveback on lower content costs could have been passed on to other channels.

And to boot we don't even get the NBA Trail Blazers on Directv to begin with up here. They walked from that deal long ago. Whether that hold up is on Comcast's end or Directv's end is not really know. Each says their own thing. Bottom line is that Directv made a business decision not to pick up the channel.

Edited by WebTraveler, 11 October 2012 - 07:20 PM.


#845 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:16 PM

That 271,000 represent the number of tuners set to FS West during a Laker game. You could say that that represents about 400,000 people maybe more. The Heat, Celtics, and the other top games and all of the playoffs are going to be on nationally on NBA TV, TNT and/or ESPN.


Maybe, I don't know. But doesn't the Laker territory span all the way from San Diego to the middle of CA, include Hawaii, and Nevada as well? I don't know exactly where it all cuts off.

#846 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:17 PM

Those groups where not negotiating more half the time during their disputes, but that's not even the same. Directv does not need the channels to survive. The NHL needs its players to survive. (And if you think the nfl didn't need its refs, just ask Green Bay. :) ) Circumstances are vastly different. DirecTV obviously made a final offer to PAC 12 and then just said that's it, we are done negotiating. I am starting to think they may have done the same with twc. At some point negotiations endgame status quo is there is a contract on the table, sign it or don't attitude from one side or the other. When two sides need each other in order for both to exists, you are always still negotiating. When one side does and the other doesn't, its tricky, but when neither side feels they need the other (especially if they actually don't need each other) like the twc and the pac12 right now......


Directv has obviously made a calculated risk by not carrying the Pac 12 Network they will not lose too many subscribers. We will have to see if that holds true and they do the same with the Lakers.

#847 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:12 PM

Directv has obviously made a calculated risk by not carrying the Pac 12 Network they will not lose too many subscribers. We will have to see if that holds true and they do the same with the Lakers.


Web is right. Why argue what's apparent? Let's see what unfolds in terms of subscriber numbers over the next few years and we'll see if DirecTV is right.

Ultimately, direcTV screwed itself in their negotiation stance. No matter what they do now, they're going to piss off anti lakers and anti pac-12 fans no matter where they put it and indiscriminately charge.

Reap what your big mouth sows....

#848 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

If that's the case, I have no interest in the Big 10 network, why am I paying for that???

#849 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:47 PM

Actually, 3/4ths of their entire "sports package" falls into my no interest category. I don't want to subsidize what I don't want to watch.

#850 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:53 PM

So I'm sorry Laker's fan. Schadenfreude. Can't have it both ways.




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