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Lakers New Regional TV Network - NOW ON THE AIR


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#1226 ONLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:08 PM

Isn't it a wash? Less subscribers mean they also have less money to spend than DIRECTV.


No, because the cable companies make money via telephone and internet deals, also.
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#1227 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

Directv owns 100% of Root. Parent can always exercise whatever it wants on it's subsidiaries and it's not even theoretically possible what you suggest. It's not two different companies when one owns 100% of another.


The companies are run independantly of each other. Root will go through the same negotiating process with DIRECTV as it will for other companies. Anything could be done but business sense states it wouldn't be done. Your argument is speculative, and based on FUD, not on real business practices of multi billion dollar corporations.

Maybe if Joe the plumber also owned a bar and he didn't charge himself to fix his own plumbing but I bet Joe the plumber doesn't have 20 million customers and his bar serves a few million as well.

Isn't it a wash? Less subscribers mean they also have less money to spend than DIRECTV.


Internet is pennies per gigabyte to an ISP and that includes maintenance. Without internet Cable companies would not be solvent with their current model and would have to charge even more fees.


Either way I'll get back on topic as this is about the Lakers network.

Hopefully the companies will come together with an agreement soon.

#1228 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

i have to admit i cringe because my cable company has pac 12 and soon will have twc sports net. right now, they have 211 hd channels. the picture quality sucks. but its depressing that they can get channels but we can't. i know a lot is tied to how much room is available on a satellite.

but.........................


Who the heck is your cable company?

#1229 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:29 PM

I think your perception is very skewed on what is a "normal practice in industry." To the contrary, a 100% controlled subsidiary is operated in a fashion that benefits the parent, especially when they have complementary product lines. I will concede to you that a guy at the lower level of a corporate empire may not see this.


Look, you disagree with everyone else. My personal experience says your wrong, but I am sure there are plenty of times your right too. There is no absolute. However, since sat racer said in the exact instances we are discussing with regards to root, etc, you are wrong, I think that this particular part of this discussion has now run its course.

Lets just leave that as is and move on.

#1230 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

Isn't it a wash? Less subscribers mean they also have less money to spend than DIRECTV.


Agreed, for in market. The problem is outer markets, where twc seems to think they should get the same pricing for the channel as they do in the main market. That's something that the cable companies mostly do not have to deal with. I talking strictly about the costs of caring the channel.

#1231 OFFLINE   Hutchinshouse

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

Alright, got it. I put my trust in ChicagoBlue. Next week (I assume Wednesday) we'll have TWSN.

#1232 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:00 PM

Alright, got it. I put my trust in ChicagoBlue. Next week (I assume Wednesday) we'll have TWSN.


That's what I'm going to do as well.

I'm putting ChicagoBlue's claim "in the refrigerator" to quote the famous Chick'ism.

Though we will miss the Detroit game (and hopefully first win) tomorrow. Meh ...

Just hope he doesn't end up having an Admiral for sale after Wednesday or sorts if it doesn't come through. :D

#1233 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:01 PM

All I can say is that when NewsCorp owned us dealing with them or Fox you might as well have been dealing with Comcast or Viacom or Disney. People have this assumption that because you are owned by a parent company it should make things easier. LOL. So far from the truth, at least in my experience here. All are separate business \ legal entities and operate in silos essentially.

Yep, I remember how long it took for Time Warner/BHN to add HBO/MAX GO to there service even though there the parent company of Home Box Office Inc.

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#1234 OFFLINE   iceturkee

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:05 PM

Who the heck is your cable company?


Bright house

#1235 OFFLINE   james2006

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Just an FYI, I had TWC installed this morning solely for the Lakers station. I called Directv shortly after the installation and voiced my displeasure about having to spend $60 per month for one channel with TWC (while i like having Pac 12, it is nowhere near worth the cable sub for that one alone). I never threatened to leave, b/c frankly I could not see living without Sunday Ticket.

The retention rep said that an email went out within Directv this morning that they expect to add the channel soon; his feeling was that they would not put out this type of info if they were not very close to striking a deal. Obviously I am aware that info on negotiations from retention reps is very unreliable, but at the same time he had no reason to make something up since I openly told him I would not leave Directv.

He also gave me $18 off per month for a year and a $50 dollar one-time bill credit to help deal with the cost of cable. So long and short of it is, hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel with TWC/Directv negotiations and I can cancel cable ASAP. If not, I will effectively be paying a total of $100 dollars for cable service during the NBA season taking into account the Directv credits; not an ideal situation but I can live with it.

#1236 OFFLINE   kenkraly2004

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

I wish Time Warner Cable Sportsnet would just add the channel to Directv so they can carry it. They and Directv need to get a deal done already. A deal should have been done with Directv before the Lakers season started.

#1237 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

Bright house



211 HD channels? Can you point to a source for that. I don't doubt you, but we do research on this stuff all the time and quite frankly I've never seen anyone even close to that number.

Below is a link from Bright House, even in this link they are counting local channels and have some duplicates like MAV TV listed multiple times and they are counting On Demand HD channels...even with all that, it doesn't equal 211.

http://brighthouse.c...HD_Channels.pdf
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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#1238 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:17 PM

211 HD channels? Can you point to a source for that. I don't doubt you, but we do research on this stuff all the time and quite frankly I've never seen anyone even close to that number.

Below is a link from Bright House, even in this link they are counting local channels and have some duplicates like MAV TV listed multiple times and they are counting On Demand HD channels...even with all that, it doesn't equal 211.

http://brighthouse.c...HD_Channels.pdf


Are they counting

BTN Extra Football Game Channels HD

The part time ESPN Goal Line HD/ESPN Buzzer Beater HD

The part time NFL RedZone HD

The part time MLB Strike Zone HD

The part time HD PPV Events 2??

HD Pay Per View Events Part time????

The 9 part time team HD channels

The 9 part time game HD channels

at least it not cox

http://www.tvpredict...m/cox122011.htm
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#1239 OFFLINE   iceturkee

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:46 PM

211 HD channels? Can you point to a source for that. I don't doubt you, but we do research on this stuff all the time and quite frankly I've never seen anyone even close to that number.

Below is a link from Bright House, even in this link they are counting local channels and have some duplicates like MAV TV listed multiple times and they are counting On Demand HD channels...even with all that, it doesn't equal 211.

http://brighthouse.c...HD_Channels.pdf


Check the listings for bhn central florida

#1240 OFFLINE   ChicagoBlue

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:28 PM

Well, half the games have been on the PAC 12 networks, including a week with both of them. Maybe two.

Also, wait till basketball season. it will be even more lopsided. Most games will be on the pac12 networks.


USC football, by my count, has been on the Pac 12 network one time this year out of 9 games. Cal vs USC.

UCLA football has been on three times out of nine UCLA games. UCLA vs Colorado, UCLA vs Cal, and UCLA vs Arizona.

4 out of 18 games amongst the two schools.

Agree, many more college basketball games will be on the Pac 12 network. From my colleagues at DTV, they numbers they are seeing of lost customers is small. Small enough that it hasn't changed their resolve.

They are trying to change the programming dynamic and right now they are the lone warriors in this. They can't collude with others as that would be illegal, so they're hoping their lead will get others to follow suit to get costs under control. They're willing to take subscriber losses to do it if they have to because they know long term you simply cannot survive with 8% to 12% programming cost jumps each year and the ability to only raise customer bills max of 5%. You can't do it and stay in business.

#1241 OFFLINE   ChicagoBlue

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:30 PM

Are they counting

BTN Extra Football Game Channels HD

The part time ESPN Goal Line HD/ESPN Buzzer Beater HD

The part time NFL RedZone HD

The part time MLB Strike Zone HD

The part time HD PPV Events 2??

HD Pay Per View Events Part time????

The 9 part time team HD channels

The 9 part time game HD channels

at least it not cox

http://www.tvpredict...m/cox122011.htm



No one has 200 HD channels, let alone 211. No one.

#1242 OFFLINE   ChicagoBlue

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:37 PM

Stop with the attitude pal. Clearly I know how it works, clearly you think you are God and a know it all.

Dish picture is fine. I have had both at alternate times throughout my life and there is no significant difference between the two. But even if there is - the fact remains that Dish charges less for the same comparable product. I do not think the picture is any less on any of the channels I watch. Now Directv has a few more HD channels for things I might watch. Dish does not have ESPNU in HD.

In NYC maybe Directv offers more sports channels. That might be a checkmark in their favor in NYC. What does that do for LA and the rest of the nation? Last I checked both Directv and Dish offer the same in LA, except Dish offers Pac 12 and Directv does not.

Your statement of "told you guys it will be done by next week." And HOW would you even know this? You don't. That's noting more than your bantering.

But let me ask this - how is that Pac 12 on Directv? That picture isn't clear at all is it?

Now wouldn't it be really humorous to see if Dish beat Directv to the punch on the Lakers?


I don't think I'm God at all. I do know that after decades in this business I know a lot more about it than 99.9% of the people here. That isn't anything to do with being God, it's just stating fact. There are fundamentals going on that you and others simply do not understand and I say that based on what you are writing, not based on me just saying it. I'm sorry if that rubs you wrong.

The world has changed, this isn't 2000 anymore, it's not even 2010 anymore. You cannot run a business where your number one product...content...is growing in expense at double digit rates every year and most of that driven by sports. You can't do it if your paying customer can only withstand a mid, single digit price increase. It's a pathway to bankruptcy.

When future RSNs come up for contract, you're going to see some major wars go on unless they back down (which they won't). Part of what DTV is doing right now is firing several shots across the bow. Now, you may not appreciate that but they clearly are. They are saying squarely to the business, the days of just coming to DTV and exepecting a layup are over. The costs are out of control, we're not buying anymore at those rates. Whether is Pac 12, the Lakers, Houston, or others. With the SEC gearing up for their own channel, rumors of the Big East and others, this is a show across the bow. At the end of the day, these guys need DTV's 20 million subscribers to pay their bills so DTV is willing to take some subscriber losses now to get these guys in line for the long term. Whether it works or not no one will know for a few years.

#1243 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:46 PM

I don't think I'm God at all. I do know that after decades in this business I know a lot more about it than 99.9% of the people here. That isn't anything to do with being God, it's just stating fact. There are fundamentals going on that you and others simply do not understand and I say that based on what you are writing, not based on me just saying it. I'm sorry if that rubs you wrong.

The world has changed, this isn't 2000 anymore, it's not even 2010 anymore. You cannot run a business where your number one product...content...is growing in expense at double digit rates every year and most of that driven by sports. You can't do it if your paying customer can only withstand a mid, single digit price increase. It's a pathway to bankruptcy.

When future RSNs come up for contract, you're going to see some major wars go on unless they back down (which they won't). Part of what DTV is doing right now is firing several shots across the bow. Now, you may not appreciate that but they clearly are. They are saying squarely to the business, the days of just coming to DTV and exepecting a layup are over. The costs are out of control, we're not buying anymore at those rates. Whether is Pac 12, the Lakers, Houston, or others. With the SEC gearing up for their own channel, rumors of the Big East and others, this is a show across the bow. At the end of the day, these guys need DTV's 20 million subscribers to pay their bills so DTV is willing to take some subscriber losses now to get these guys in line for the long term. Whether it works or not no one will know for a few years.

So whats the solution then, how do these providers keep the costs of sports programing from getting out of control and still being able to provide sports to their subscribers? With each team/league/conference starting their own channels, how, where and when will it end?

#1244 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:31 PM

So whats the solution then, how do these providers keep the costs of sports programing from getting out of control and still being able to provide sports to their subscribers? With each team/league/conference starting their own channels, how, where and when will it end?


I fear the solution is a world in which no one provider has everything and each provider sort of picks its markets of priority...

#1245 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:46 PM

I fear the solution is a world in which no one provider has everything and each provider sort of picks its markets of priority...

I think its ironic that you can get all of the out of market games with NBALP but when it comes to getting your local teams there are no alternatives, with the exception of changing providers, if your provider carries the channel.

You would think the local teams would give the local sports fan the ability to get the games either via the internet or via a la carte or PPV on whatever provider they have.

The sports industry needs to rethink this and something needs to change soon.

#1246 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:26 PM

I think its ironic that you can get all of the out of market games with NBALP but when it comes to getting your local teams there are no alternatives, with the exception of changing providers, if your provider carries the channel.

You would think the local teams would give the local sports fan the ability to get the games either via the internet or via a la carte or PPV on whatever provider they have.

The sports industry needs to rethink this and something needs to change soon.


Lot of sports channels started as pay OTA channels and when they moved to cable some of them where add on channels for some time before moving to basic.

Now why not make local sports channels a $3-$10 add on maybe you even get people on limited basic to add them as under the old 1992 law you can have limited and channels like HBO.
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#1247 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:01 AM

So whats the solution then, how do these providers keep the costs of sports programing from getting out of control and still being able to provide sports to their subscribers? With each team/league/conference starting their own channels, how, where and when will it end?


I suspect that if anything ever goes a la cart in this industry,it will be sports channels. Realistically, at some point, all these new channels will deplete the other to the point they have to fold, or consolidate, and that will help level things out some, or at least lower their costs.

#1248 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:24 AM

USC football, by my count, has been on the Pac 12 network one time this year out of 9 games. Cal vs USC.

UCLA football has been on three times out of nine UCLA games. UCLA vs Colorado, UCLA vs Cal, and UCLA vs Arizona.

4 out of 18 games amongst the two schools.

Agree, many more college basketball games will be on the Pac 12 network. From my colleagues at DTV, they numbers they are seeing of lost customers is small. Small enough that it hasn't changed their resolve.

They are trying to change the programming dynamic and right now they are the lone warriors in this. They can't collude with others as that would be illegal, so they're hoping their lead will get others to follow suit to get costs under control. They're willing to take subscriber losses to do it if they have to because they know long term you simply cannot survive with 8% to 12% programming cost jumps each year and the ability to only raise customer bills max of 5%. You can't do it and stay in business.


Huston vs UCLA and Colorado vs USC too.

I was talking about conference games, but we can look at both...

just wen through the schedule. You missed a few.

USC...
2 of 7 conference and 0 of 2 non conference.

UCLA
3 of 6 conference and 1 of 3 non conference

So 5 of 13 including a full half of UCLAs league games so far, and one of five non conference games between the two. In total, 33% of all games, and I'm guessing you will see more on the PAC 12 networks before the end of the year.

Considering they will have basketball games most nights a week, I am very interested to see how many games are n the PAC 12 for each school.

#1249 OFFLINE   FlyBono24

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:59 AM

Missed ANOTHER good pac-12 matchup tonight because they don't have this damn channel.

Edited by Mike Bertelson, 04 November 2012 - 08:35 AM.
Mod edit language


#1250 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:52 AM

211 HD channels? Can you point to a source for that. I don't doubt you, but we do research on this stuff all the time and quite frankly I've never seen anyone even close to that number.

Below is a link from Bright House, even in this link they are counting local channels and have some duplicates like MAV TV listed multiple times and they are counting On Demand HD channels...even with all that, it doesn't equal 211.

I think he is probably referring to the HD channel list that HDOrlando over at AVSForum keeps updated for BHN Orlando, FL.

http://www.avsforum....0#post_22442268

It appears they do count the channels that JoeTheDragon listed above in there totals.

List of networks with HD VOD content available on DIRECTV  DIRECTV Customer Service Live Online Chat (available from 7am-12:30am ET)  DIRECTV Regional Sports Network (RSN) fee lookup tool (zip code required)

DIRECTV Premium Channel Pricing: 1=$13.99 ($17.99 for HBO) | 2=$25.99 ($30.99 with HBO) | 3=$36.99 ($41.99 with HBO) | 4=$45.99 ($50.99 with HBO) | All 5=$57.99 per month

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